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I wouldn't put it quite like that, but there must be a gene for contrariness. Very closely linked perhaps to spontaneous creativity.
I don't think it is the only way to be inventive or original, perhaps not even the most efficient, but maybe such people have been responsible in part for the technical advance of th human race, for good and mainly ill.
It's definitely a thing. Why else, because there are unexplained lights on the sky or strange noises in the night, do so many people seem to prefer the least likely explanations of all the possible ones such as alien space travellers or ghosts?
But I don't think it covers buying Range Rovers.
One factor I'm sure is that humans generally don't have a good feel for probability even if they have seen the numbers. Why else do they buy tickets for lotteries that when the jackpot is as near impossible to win as makes no difference? It's far, far more likely that any number of unpleasant things will happen to them in a given week, but most people don't stop to think about those or even take particular care to avoid them.
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This neatly ties in with the prestige car thread also current, and it simply boils down to aspiration. People these days rarely, if ever, seem to be happy/satisfied/contented with what they have, they always want more/bigger/better/faster/newer. On this forum particularly, we are acutely aware of how little research most people put in before shelling out a huge sum of money, most often these days in the form of a monthly payment, for the latest 'must have' car. Regardless of the poor results in most reliability surveys, Land Rover products are desirable, from an image point of view, and that, for many, is the only thing that matters.Having a fancy, trendy, image concious car is the clearest way of showing others you are doing well, even if it is often just a pretence.
A book i am reading at the moment has a couple of paragraphs directly relating to this modern phenomenon comparing the attitude of the younger generations with older ones..
"What was wrong with her own generation?. Why were they never satisfied?. Why did everything and everyone always always have to be measured, compared, evaluated?. What was this unresolved restlessness that kept driving them onward, forward, to the next goal?. A total inability to stop and be happy about the goals they had already reached, a constant fear that someone might pass them by, that they might have missed something that might have been slightly better, made them slightly happier. So many choices, but how could they manage all of them?.
The older generation had fought to realise their dreams: education, a home, children, and then the goal was attained. None of them had ever suspected that they might need so much more. No one accused them of lacking ambition if they stayed in one job more than a couple of years; on the contrary, loyalty was honourable. They had the ablity to sit down and feel content with their lives. They had fought hard and enjoyed their successes."
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I assume that is a fiction book? I long ago concluded that fiction writers are rather opinionated and sometimes objectionable people who convince their readers of the value of their all too often misguided views by couching them in beautiful prose.
Thank God the horrible class ridden attitudes that prevailed 40 years ago have gone. Along with the bigotry includng racism, though sexism is still prevalent.
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Wow, your reaction suggests i may have touched a nerve!. Yes, it is a fictional book, but i feel the author's comments (from the perspective of one of the main character's) is bang on.
Also, you feel that bigotry and racism no longer exist?, really?
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Wow, your reaction suggests i may have touched a nerve!. Yes, it is a fictional book, but i feel the author's comments (from the perspective of one of the main character's) is bang on.
Also, you feel that bigotry and racism no longer exist?, really?
No not really, the author is seeing the past through rose tinted spectacles. It’s all rather cosy, but unreal. Of course bigotry and racism still exist in the U.K., but not in the same openly unashamed way. For example Paki bashing, as it was called, was commonplace when I was young.
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"I assume that is a fiction book? I long ago concluded that fiction writers are rather opinionated and sometimes objectionable people who convince their readers of the value of their all too often misguided views by couching them in beautiful prose."
Still, this is a very peculiar statement and seems to show you having a very cynical view on the talents and motivation of fiction writers who you seem to feel only do what they do to push their own opinions and agenda's on their readers!. How many fiction writers do you know well enough to make that kind of judgement?.
The fact that they are writing fiction means they are creating characters who, necessarily will have to have their own views and beliefs, probably different to the author and definately to other characters in the book. Agatha Christie famously grew to hate Poirot as she felt he was a horrible little man!. Given this, i think it is fair to say Poirot's opinions and views were somewhat removed from those of Agatha. Also, i remember hearing an interview with Ian Rankin a few years ago and him answering questions, which would sometimes then be followed with, "and how would Rebus answer that question", the answers were invariably completely different.
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"I assume that is a fiction book? I long ago concluded that fiction writers are rather opinionated and sometimes objectionable people who convince their readers of the value of their all too often misguided views by couching them in beautiful prose."
Still, this is a very peculiar statement and seems to show you having a very cynical view on the talents and motivation of fiction writers who you seem to feel only do what they do to push their own opinions and agenda's on their readers!. How many fiction writers do you know well enough to make that kind of judgement?.
The fact that they are writing fiction means they are creating characters who, necessarily will have to have their own views and beliefs, probably different to the author and definately to other characters in the book. Agatha Christie famously grew to hate Poirot as she felt he was a horrible little man!. Given this, i think it is fair to say Poirot's opinions and views were somewhat removed from those of Agatha. Also, i remember hearing an interview with Ian Rankin a few years ago and him answering questions, which would sometimes then be followed with, "and how would Rebus answer that question", the answers were invariably completely different.
No, not at all. When I was younger I read lots, believing what the author stated as true, and thinking that they had insight into other people’s psychology. In reality it is only one persons view of the world, and all too often a rather narrow one as most authors have limited life experience. Few if any have created their own company, or led an engineering team, or achieved at sport. In my experience the world is a far more wonderful and complex thing than portrayed in books. Anyway, if people enjoy reading stories, that’s good. The only point I really wanted to make is that the views of the writer you paraphrased were unrealistic. In my view of course.
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Interesting. You have to be rich to buy a new Range Rover. I wonder what the typical after tax income is of families that buy one?.....................
I think a lot of people spend up to their means, ie the opposite of thrifty. I reckon us folk typically come as two types, either thrifty or spenders! Myself I am thrifty or tight, I had a poor upbringing, and those habits have stayed with me. It's a pain sometimes.
I know a family who are the opposite, huge income, large house in the country, extravagent parties, villa on the Costa, enormous Audi SUV runaround. They constantly talk about cash flow and making ends meet!
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Our neighbours have a Range Rover. Bought (or more likely leased) new. It looks lovely and I am sure it's lovely to be in. It spends the whole week parked in their drive and occasionally goes out at weekends. I doubt it does enough miles to go wrong.
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I meet lots of 4x4s - mainly new - on the single track roads I travel on to go to our Beekeeping Apiary. You need to be able to :
reverse a car
remember where the last passing space was so you can reverse to it if the other driver is descending a steep hill
be prepared to go onto the verge to let another pass.
Drivers of newer 4x4s - as a general rule - can do none of the above.
(Occasionally you meet a LARGE tractor about 5 meters tall and 4 metres wide which you just have to reverse for.. as the tractor has no chance.. so be prepared to reverse 400 meters or so - on very twisty roads with high hedges. Range Rovers biggies don't drive on these roads- no way can they be reversed by their typical drivers 40 meters let alone 400)
Edited by madf on 21/06/2018 at 15:07
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I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve come across a new 4 by 4 on a narrow lane, and I’ve had to go off road in my small city car, cos they don’t want to get their tyres muddy.
Edited by Leif on 21/06/2018 at 19:32
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Does it occur to anyone else that there seems to be a fair bit of vitriol here directed at those who choose to drive nice cars? ( whether they can afford them or not ) Bit ironic for for a motoring forum don't you think? ;-)
I don't want a Range Rover by the way, but I'm not at all bothered if someone else has one. I quite like to look at cars I don't need and will almost certainly never buy, if they are good examples of their type.
I suppose I like most cars really, for different reasons. There aren't many that have nothing to commend them.
I had a Defender once, well, it wasn't a Defender because they hadn't called them that yet, it was just a 90 County. Orange with a 3.5 V8. I was very fond of it, and it was ideal for where I lived at the time ( 1200' above sea level in rural Scotland ) It was very fond of petrol though, which was the reason we eventually fell out.
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I saw a lovely Mazda MX5 outside the local brewery when I bought some beer today. And a colleague bought a nice Jaguar XF recently. I have no hatred of posh cars and their drivers. But I do loathe big 4 by 4s unless driven by people who use them off road for work. If they park next to me, I have zero vision that side. Often they stop outside a shop, engine running, making the air smell foul. And they don’t have to comply with the pedestrian safety regs that apply to cars. So they are more dangerous for other road users. But I do like old VW camper vans. And I can understand the craze for more sitty upper cars. But why have one with a very complex 4 by 4 and off road mechanism for on road use? Rant over.
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An extreme example of the awareness of the reliabilty issue is when an official in a South American country well known for kidnapping was told by Head Office he was to be sent a replacement Range Rover.
The official regularly used the vehicle to go out of town to carry out his duties and had been left stranded in an area frequented by bandits whose income was generated from kidnapping.
He asked for a Toyota Landcruiser for obvious reasons !
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When I worked in Brazil in the late 80s / early 90s I had an old Ford Landau, ran on sugar cane alcohol. ( as did I much of the time ) It was a bit like a New York taxi in appearance, big spongy, lollopy saloon. Mine was black, with a black vinyl roof ( sexy eh? ) It didn't do to stand out from the crowd in some places.
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Whether you like RR's or not, you have to admit they have got the image thing right, and doing it right pays.
They have a large show fleet, which get sent to all the right shows, ie Burleigh horse trials, they are used as courtesy cars, the drivers and staff are well chosen for the task, Land Rovers are part and parcel of the country set, doesn't matter if another product might be better, it simply doesn't doesn't get a look in and LR have got this market sewn up, which influences others also to buy in.
Then look at Land Rover product placement, when used in films and TV they are usually the car driven by the upper crust or successful person roles or for security of the important, not for LR the wide boy, hit man or drug dealer's car, usually German for that role in black with limo black windows.
I wouldn't want one even as an all expenses paid perk, i like Landcruisers because they don't really have an image to speak of and don't get noticed, and they tend not to break.
Edited by gordonbennet on 21/06/2018 at 21:26
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