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More traffic as train fares shoot up? - FoxyJukebox

I will be looking very carefully at the outcomes arising from the consultation exercise on rail fare pricing announced yesterday. Whilst much is to be welcomed--I have a concern that reducing/withdrawing the number of deals/offers/entitlements/special offers and discount fares in order to even things out will have the effect of raising ticket prices, forcing willing train travellers off the rails and back to their cars. I hope I am wrong?

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Leif

I would never travel by train unless there was no alternative as it is expensive and takes too long. I suspect those who do take the train do so because for them it is convenient, and avoids ridiculous car journeys.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Andrew-T

.... it is convenient, and avoids ridiculous car journeys.

.... and the train fare may be offset by excessive parking charges ?

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - nick62

I would never travel by train unless there was no alternative as it is expensive and takes too long.

So Liverpool to London is 2h 10m on the train.

Try the same journey by car in anywhere near DOUBLE that time, (tip: you have to average >50mph) and you'll have had a good journey, your statement "takes too long" is ridiculous.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Leif

I would never travel by train unless there was no alternative as it is expensive and takes too long.

So Liverpool to London is 2h 10m on the train.

Try the same journey by car in anywhere near DOUBLE that time, (tip: you have to average >50mph) and you'll have had a good journey, your statement "takes too long" is ridiculous.

No it isn’t. How many people do the journey you quote on a daily basis? A tiny number and a minute proportion of all commutes. The train has a role for some commuters, mainly those who travel into a big city such as London. I recently did a journey that takes 30 minutes by car even at peak time. It took several hours. One train journey to North Camp. A ten walk minute to Ash Vale. Train to near home. Bus to home. Commuting from home to work in East Reading would have taken 2-3 times as long as driving. Services into big cities can be good, but go between smaller towns and it can be dreadful, with many changes, and long walks to/from stations.

Edited by Leif on 09/05/2018 at 20:48

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Bromptonaut

No it isn’t. How many people do the journey you quote on a daily basis? A tiny number and a minute proportion of all commutes. The train has a role for some commuters, mainly those who travel into a big city such as London. I recently did a journey that takes 30 minutes by car even at peak time. It took several hours. One train journey to North Camp. A ten walk minute to Ash Vale. Train to near home. Bus to home. Commuting from home to work in East Reading would have taken 2-3 times as long as driving. Services into big cities can be good, but go between smaller towns and it can be dreadful, with many changes, and long walks to/from stations.

There are journeys that are worthwhile by train and those that are not. Generalisation is pointless.

London and other big city work commutes are well served by train and getting better. Guiseley to Leeds forty years ago was one smelly old diesel an hour; my Dad drove. It's now a modern electric at 2-3 times that frequency while the roads are much worse, I think he'd use the train now!!.

Birmingham city centre from Northampton - train. Probably as good for the airport too.

I went to Liverpool just after Christmas. Car to station, train to Milton Keynes another train to Liverpool. Cost less than £30, journey time around two and a half hours. Slept and worked on train. Struggle to do it in less than three hours by car with added hassle of city centre driving/parking.

Use the railway system imaginatively. If I drive half an hour to Banbury I can, with one change at Reading, acess Plymouth and beyond.

OTOH if I'm going to the Lake District, East Anglia, Stansted or mid Wales driving is going to be quicker.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Bromptonaut

The intention is to reduce the multiplicity of offers. I think the main target is fares like 'Saver' that were written into law at time of privatisation and which all franchises are obliged to offer for longer distance journeys. They also have the weekly/monthly season in their sights as these 'regulated' fares have been kept artificially low vis a vis standard. The rail companies are of course spinning that as being about changes in the lbour market since 1993 and wanting to offer flexible tickets to part timers etc but I'd be amazed if outcome does not propose a significant increase in cost for those still commuting daily in '9-5' type jobs.

Don't think it will reduce usage overall. Airline style demand lead pricing will ensure bums are found for empty seats.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - FP

Most people travelling into London don't have much choice. Using a car doesn't make sense at all. Commuter towns continue to grow and train services, though lagging behind, also grow.

Fares for these people would have to rise astronomically before any alternatives would be considered.

Simplifying the "special fare" structure won't mean a reduction in revenue - you can bet on that.

Edited by FP on 09/05/2018 at 15:41

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - TheGentlemanThug

In large cities with good public transport, I doubt it will be much of a problem. The cost and availability of convenient parking in most cities, not to mention the stress of traffic, would probably put a lot of people off using their car, even if it did save them money.

Personally, I use my car whenever possible, even if it's more expensive to do so. With a toddler and another baby on the way, public transport simply doesn't suit me.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - gordonbennet

Train fares are an interesting thing.

Daughter has a new, to her, car to collect from deepest Wiltshire not far from Bath, and until she made alternative arrangements with her brother to go down Saturday it was pencilled in that i would travel down on the train from Northants tomorrow morning.

I checked train fares and times, and the standard East Midland train site quoted me a cool £143 for the journey, some 3 hours via St Pancras.

I think it was one of our flock here who put me onto Split Ticketing, which had me going via Leics B'ham and Bristol (one extra connection1 hour longer journey) for £40.20 total.

You really do have to shop about.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Miniman777

Train fares are an interesting thing.

Daughter has a new, to her, car to collect from deepest Wiltshire not far from Bath, and until she made alternative arrangements with her brother to go down Saturday it was pencilled in that i would travel down on the train from Northants tomorrow morning.

I checked train fares and times, and the standard East Midland train site quoted me a cool £143 for the journey, some 3 hours via St Pancras.

I think it was one of our flock here who put me onto Split Ticketing, which had me going via Leics B'ham and Bristol (one extra connection1 hour longer journey) for £40.20 total.

You really do have to shop about.

As someone who works in the rail industry, GB's experiences are typical. If part 1 of a journey is at peak time, then the whole part of the journey is charged similarly. Going in a more direct route resulted in a sensible price. It should also elimiate far too many anomolies in ticketing including where a longer journey can be cheaper.

There are around 55milion fares in the database, which is barmy and the consultation is to make things simpler, more understandable and most important, the change will be revenue neutral, so as to eliminate increases. It is a needed exercise, as it's too complex, too unfair.

GB said he used split ticketing and this does need trial and error to make the splits work in the customer's favour, the only provisio is that the train must stop at the split stations. If one train is late and it will impact your journey, get guard/conductor/train manager etc to endorse your ticket(s) and then take next available train. You do not have to pay again because one operator failed in its obligation to run on time. And single fares can sometimes be cheaper.

The consultation also aims to get away from the silliness of off-peak and super off-peak tickets the latter having more restrictions. Also what bugs passengers is that every train operator has different peak and off-peak times, and what is worse, is that they can set them. Advance tickets, also quota controlled, offer great savings, but restrict you to chosen train.

Car parking is another lucrative area, Leicester station charges £14.50 per 24 hours, Rugby only £9. Captive market with unregulated prices.

Rail franchising was supposed to generate competition but this has not happened as many lines have a sole operator. That said, they are under no incentive to offer cheap prices so tend to offer a minimum number of advance tickets on a quota controlled basis - when they've gone, etc. The operator from Leicester is typical of this, and yet 20 miles away, at Rugby, you have the choice of two operators, one with a 50min journey to London, the other up to 10 mins longer who offer cheaper fares.

Finally, if anyone is travelling regulary over the same route, consider a season ticket - sample: Anytime return Leicester-London £162.50, 7 day season ticket - £270. Swindon-Paddington anytime: £133.60 season: £248.50. You do the maths.

It is a minefield.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - nick62
It is a minefield.

It's a minefield alright. Too many pigs with their snouts in the trough in this country, doing 'nowt and making money for it.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - Andrew-T

<< Too many pigs with their snouts in the trough in this country, doing 'nowt and making money for it. >>

I hope you have seen some of the Channel-5 (I think) programmes showing what happens at Paddington 24/7. There may be a few snouts in troughs, but I don't think the travelling public have much idea of the effort needed for the railway to come anywhere near their expectations. Partly because of H&S, whenever something happens they have to stop almost everything while a relatively trivial problem is sorted - for example a large plastic bag getting caught on the overhead wires.

It's dead easy to knock a complicated system because it seems far too expensive. Add up the cost of signalling, maintenance and replacement of track and rolling stock (usually overnight), and it looks rather a better bargain. The main reason is that since privatisation, shareholders expect some of the profits.

More traffic as train fares shoot up? - nick62

Andrew, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments, but after 40 years in engineering, (the last 25 as self-employed), I never cease to be amazed at the number of people in organisations who do 'nowt.