any - French Tailgating

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 10:28
any - French Tailgating - joegrundy

No, this is not about some new porn craze, rather it's about a recently observed and worrying driving method.

We've all suffered standard tailgating. Fortunately my old x type diesel will produce 007 levels of black smoke when dropped a cog or two and floored, which tends to discourage them.

But recently on a trip in France I saw time and time again - even on emptyish roads - a tendency for drivers to accelerate to within a few feet of the back bumper before swerving out to overtake when they could have more reasonably (and safely) pulled out further back and made the whole manouevre more fluid.

Is road/traffic anticipation a foreign concept to the average French driver? I really don't want some berk just a few feet behind me at 80 mph.

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 10:48
any - French Tailgating - Bolt

No need to go to France to see it, just go on the M25 A2 M20!

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 11:26
any - French Tailgating - joegrundy

Ah yes - the M25. Luckily I live 60 miles west of the end of the M4, so only have to suffer the M25 occasionally. When even when the motorway is relatively empty, some twonk will be sitting in a middle-ish lane at 60, oblivious to all around them. Whatever happened to the promise of (non-existent) police patrols to catch middle-lane hoggers? Or where can I buy ground-to-ground missiles that fit neatly behind the radiator grille?

But I'm talking about something a bit different - the propensity to accelerate fast up to your back bumper, swerve out (missing you by feet) and overtake at a mile or two per hour faster than you're doing.

I fear that I am getting old and grumpy.

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 11:41
any - French Tailgating - Engineer Andy

No, this is not about some new porn craze, rather it's about a recently observed and worrying driving method.

We've all suffered standard tailgating. Fortunately my old x type diesel will produce 007 levels of black smoke when dropped a cog or two and floored, which tends to discourage them.

But recently on a trip in France I saw time and time again - even on emptyish roads - a tendency for drivers to accelerate to within a few feet of the back bumper before swerving out to overtake when they could have more reasonably (and safely) pulled out further back and made the whole manouevre more fluid.

Is road/traffic anticipation a foreign concept to the average French driver? I really don't want some berk just a few feet behind me at 80 mph.

Isn't tailgating (and flashing their headlights when doing so) a 'national sport' in France?

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 12:59
any - French Tailgating - bazza

It's always been the traditional french way of driving, a bit unnerving at first but one gets used to it, just leave extra space in front of yourself to accommodate it. Why it's like that, no idea!

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 14:48
any - French Tailgating - Ethan Edwards

Oh thank god.. I thought there was an Essex A12 edition of the "Audi Enema" out there.

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Wed 18 Apr 2018 23:31
any - French Tailgating - focussed

French drivers were always taught that it is safer to follow a vehicle very closely so that if it stops suddenly there will be less of an impact when the following vehicles hits it.

Make of that what you will - but that is how French drivers were trained until recently.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 00:32
any - French Tailgating - Manatee

French drivers were always taught that it is safer to follow a vehicle very closely so that if it stops suddenly there will be less of an impact when the following vehicles hits it.

Make of that what you will - but that is how French drivers were trained until recently.

Incroyable.

Like a lot of French motoring ideas, it works perfectly in theory.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 00:46
any - French Tailgating - Bilboman

Having reaped rich rewards from EEC/EU membership for so long, it was a beautifully poetic moment when the self same European institution finally banned yellow headlights in France - the only country in the world actually fitting them - back in 1993.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 09:19
any - French Tailgating - landmarked

I have lived in France for the past 5 years

Generally, what seems to be considered to be an acceptable following distance - on any road but especially on autoroutes - seems to be much shorter than in the UK. Stragely enough, this is even the case on completely empty roads - you can drive at 130kph for an hour with another driver sat quite contentedly 2 car lengths from your rear bumper.

The practice of braking late and arriving close behind a slower vehicle overtaking in the outside lane is also normal, although I still find it unnerving.

It also takes a while to realise that sitting behind you in the outside lane with an indicator flashing constantly isn't a sign of agression or impatience, most often it's just signalling presence and intent.

For sure, if agression or impatience is there, you will know about it.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 10:20
any - French Tailgating - catsdad
After tailgating on motorways there is also a tendency to cut straight back in as if they are expect something to be coming the other way. Mind you, maybe they are right........

Road deaths per million inhabitants in France is twice the UK figure (54 v 27). In fact UK is only beaten by Sweden.
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Thu 19 Apr 2018 10:32
any - French Tailgating - Manatee

Haven't driven in France for decades, but we used to do a lot of Gite holidays when the children were young. Loved thise long straight tree-lined roads in western France.

The zooming up and sudden swoops I always thought were probably related to the ubiquitousness of low powered cars like the 2CV. Most French drivers back in the early 80s whould have had experience of driving one, or something equally gutless, at some stage of their driving carrer.

If you want to overtake anything in one of those, it's no good starting a long way back when the gap appears, or without an overspeed.

The ideal when catching a dawdler would be to ensure that it was at maximum speed, so that when the victim is caught and providing there is no oncoming, there's no need to slow down, just a yank on the wheel and they're past. Of course when there isn't a gap, then it's violent braking to within two feet of the bumper.

Come to think of it, I used to drive an 895cc Polo like that.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 10:47
any - French Tailgating - focussed

If you want to see how bizarre some of the official French road rules are you can take a free theory test here:-

coderoute.com/test-code-de-la-route/

As you will be able to see from most of the tests they are obsessed with road signs and markings!

If you go to the first page, right click and then left click translate (if you have translate enabled) all the test pages will be translated.

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 13:24
any - French Tailgating - landmarked

I think the gap in road deaths is partially explained by a different attitude to risk from car drivers, but a big part is coming from a completely different concept to immortality from motorcyclists. In France there are 5.9 dealths per million each year from motorcycle accidents, in the UK 0.4 (2005 data, but I'd be surprised if much has changed)

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 15:31
any - French Tailgating - concrete

Tailgating is definitely more prominent on the Continent. The worse thing is they bust a gut to catch you up, then don't overtake!! What is that all about?? This year in Portugal though we experienced some of the worst driving. Not only scary tailgating but deciding to overtake on the most dangerous section of the road having let lots of safer chances go unused. Crazy. That includes HGV's too, which is really scary. The only saving grace is the roads are quite empty out of the usual heavily populated areas. Good job too or they would scraping people off the roads every hour on the hour. My general answer to tailgating is slow down, that usually shifts the problem on. Cheers Concrete

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Thu 19 Apr 2018 23:58
any - French Tailgating - KJP 123

Car overtook me and two cars in front on bends you could not see round. Driver may have had a better view from wrong side of road but if something coming he will have to cut back in.

Drivers going unnecessarily slow round bends then speeding up immediately on straight making overtaking more difficult.

Cars braking when there is an oncoming car even though road is wide enough for two large vehicles to pass. These drivers are normally going slow to begin with.

They are lowering max speed from 90 to 80kph on main roads in July to cut death rate. Can’t see it making much difference: accidents are caused by driving habits and many were probably doing well over 90 anyway.

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 10:04
any - French Tailgating - Manatee

So exactly the same as the standard 50 in Oxfordshire, which IMO is so low for rural A roads as to bring speed limits into disrepute. The result is processions of cars doing 45.

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 21:23
any - French Tailgating - KJP 123

So exactly the same as the standard 50 in Oxfordshire, which IMO is so low for rural A roads as to bring speed limits into disrepute. The result is processions of cars doing 45.

Agree absolutely.

But you seem to be saying that the standard limit on A roads in Oxfordshire is 50 not the national max of 60. The Highways Agency is responsible for these routes so has Oxfordshire County Council asked for a blanket lowering?

Guidelines suggest that lower local limits need justification but I think that the HA is happy to oblige. It has suggested reducing the 60 limit to 50. The majority of deaths occur on A roads but I feel that the real reason is to lower CO2.

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Sat 21 Apr 2018 00:10
any - French Tailgating - Manatee

So exactly the same as the standard 50 in Oxfordshire, which IMO is so low for rural A roads as to bring speed limits into disrepute. The result is processions of cars doing 45.

Agree absolutely.

But you seem to be saying that the standard limit on A roads in Oxfordshire is 50 not the national max of 60. The Highways Agency is responsible for these routes so has Oxfordshire County Council asked for a blanket lowering?

The majority if not all single-carriageway A roads there seem to be 50 now. Not sure at whose behest it happened.

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Sat 21 Apr 2018 00:19
any - French Tailgating - Andrew-T

So exactly the same as the standard 50 in Oxfordshire, which IMO is so low for rural A roads as to bring speed limits into disrepute.

Does anyone here drive the A5104 Hawarden to Corwen road regularly? A few years back it was a normal NSL road with only moderate traffic. Since then much of it has been posted at 50 - a few straight stretches remain at 60. In the last few weeks several tall yellow poles have appeared, presumably average-speed cameras designed to trap drivers and extort fines. I have driven this road every other week for many years and I have never experienced traffic requiring this kind of supervision - though I suppose it is the sort of road adventurous bikers would enjoy. More nanny state?

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 18:12
any - French Tailgating - focussed

Car overtook me and two cars in front on bends you could not see round. Driver may have had a better view from wrong side of road but if something coming he will have to cut back in.

Drivers going unnecessarily slow round bends then speeding up immediately on straight making overtaking more difficult.

Cars braking when there is an oncoming car even though road is wide enough for two large vehicles to pass. These drivers are normally going slow to begin with.

They are lowering max speed from 90 to 80kph on main roads in July to cut death rate. Can’t see it making much difference: accidents are caused by driving habits and many were probably doing well over 90 anyway.

It's not just main roads -the speed limit reduction is on any two-way road that does not have a central divider - ie any road that isn't a dual carriageway.

Purely being done to increase revenue from the new mobile, privately-contracted speed camera cars-nothing to do with road safety as it will make the roads more dangerous as will not be able to legally overtake or get away from the truck that is tailgating you!

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 18:31
any - French Tailgating - joegrundy

I noticed this last week. In several areas signs posting 80 km/h limitswith a sign saying something about (I think) 'for extra safety'. It didn't feel particularly safe with a (French) artic up my exhaust at 80 km/h - especially when entering town limits when dropping to 50 km/h.

I tend to stick to speed limits, and to accelerate quickly out of them when appropriate.

When I did my Old Bill driver training, it was based on defensive driving. You keep a safe space around you, and always look for the 'safe escape route' if something untoward happens. This applies whatever speed you are doing, cruising or 'blue light', and I still try to apply it. It is sometimes difficult, whether we're talking about French tailgating or the middle-lane pratt on the M25.

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 16:12
any - French Tailgating - barney100

I can see a sort of logic in that but I prefer the keep your distance approach.

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Fri 20 Apr 2018 21:49
any - French Tailgating - Smileyman

will be interesting to see whether the French accept the new lower speed limits or protest against them ..

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Sat 21 Apr 2018 07:55
any - French Tailgating - landmarked

will be interesting to see whether the French accept the new lower speed limits or protest against them ..

A small sample of the many demontrastions organised by motorist and motorcyclist groups:

www.40millionsdautomobilistes.com/flash-actu/manif.../

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Sat 21 Apr 2018 13:32
any - French Tailgating - Manatee

I can see a sort of logic in that but I prefer the keep your distance approach.

Same here. It's consistent with my general approach to life which is to have as little to do with the general public as possible.

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Sun 22 Apr 2018 10:55
any - French Tailgating - Sofa Spud

I haven't driven in France for some years. From what I remember driving standards were about the same as here in Britain.

One thing that was un-nerving, though, on the long straight single-carriageways was that some drivers regard the other side of the road as an overtaking lane, as though it's a dual carriageway. They'd bomb along on the wrong side of the road for considerable distances, dodging in at the last minute whenever there's an oncoming vehicle, then back out again. Interestingly I noticed that some British drivers did this too when in France.

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Mon 23 Apr 2018 00:04
any - French Tailgating - Smileyman

it used to be more fun when there were more 3 laned roads, question - who had ownership of the middle lane - answer, everyone tried to, at the same time too!

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Sun 22 Apr 2018 12:25
any - French Tailgating - corax

Same here. It's consistent with my general approach to life which is to have as little to do with the general public as possible.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACjpRpRDVw&t=8m05s

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