Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Sat 10 Mar 2018 23:39

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Hi all,

My beloved Citroen C15 Champ Diesel van (2002 model) began losing water a year ago, but the radiator had an obvious leak. I used K-Seal, which seemed to correct the issue for a while, then the water disappeared again. I bought a new rad, but didn't get around to fitting it before the very cold weather last week.

Before the cold came in, I put in more antifreeze, but I suspect I didn't put enough in because after the coldest night, I started her, warmed her up, but when I'd driven about 1 mile uphill, the coolant light came on and the van was overheating badly.

The new rad was put in, the garage have checked for airlocks, checked the water pump, checked the thermostat and flushed the system through - but it is still overheating very quickly. They found a leak behind the engine housing and ave deduced that it can only be a cracked block or head gasket and have quoted about £500 to repair.

So I have two questions really - firstly, I have been tempted to try Steelseal to address the problem - does anyone have any experience/thoughts on that?

Second question - if it looks like the block/gasket is knackered - I might think about putting a different engine in her, but what I'd like to know is what engines other than the standard for this model, may be compatible? EG: are there any compatible Peugeot engines? Or any others?

Thanks for reading through all that!

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 14:43

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - focussed

"The garage have deduced that it can only be a cracked block or head gasket "

So they haven't diagnosed it, they just think it's a cracked block?

And if it is a cracked block it would normally cost much more than £500 to repair it.

I suspect they know what is causing the leak, and are teeing you up for a large bill for doing very little.

Cylinder blocks usually have a number of core plugs and if the block freezes they will usually push a core plug or two out before cracking the block, depending on how cold it was.

Have a look round at the core plugs, see if any of them are displaced or leaking before you start thinking about replacing the engine.

And you knew that someone was going to say that 20 quids worth of anti-freeze would have prevented this happening didn't you?

Edited by focussed on 11/03/2018 at 14:46

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 20:29

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Thanks, the garage were veering more towards gasket - but the engine runs OK, no oil in water or water in oil. It just began overheating madly aftrer the freezing night the other week. It overheated once about 6 mths ago and was running hot for a couple of miles as I got it home. I suspect cracked block, but onbly because I can't think of anything else.

I put antifreeze in, but I suspect not enough. I'm going to try some Steelseal in it, not sure if I trust it but keep hearing lots of positive things about it.

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 19:39

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - bluezzr1100

Agree with last post but do you have water in oil or oil in water-a blown head will often be acompanied by this sort of thing. If it is just a waterway leak to the outside world it will not. Check for mayonnaise at oil filler or a white film in the oil or indeed oil in the water (more mayonnaise. Is the water level going down much? Do you have gas bubbles in the expansion tank? Has it overheated badly and been left to run in that condition at any time?

The French have a nasty habit of using wet liners for cylinders so you have the added worry of rubber seals at the bottom of each cylinder however not being familiar with diesels this may only be the case with petrol engines.

I do hope it is just a core plug for your sake- £500 seems too cheap a quote for a head gasket change.

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 20:35

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Thanks, yes have checked for water/oil mixes but nothing. The engine runs OK too, just gets hot quickly. I can't see how the cold weather could make the gasket go? And I feel sure the cold weather had something to do with it. It was fine the prevous evening.

It did overheat for a couple of miles once last year - I waited until late in the day to start it when it got cold last week, the coolant light came on after I'd driven uphill for about a mile. Today, I drove it back from the garage downhill all the way approx 1.5 miles and the light didn't come on, but it was v hot and the header tank (filled when I left the garage) had lost about a quarter to a third of its water.

Am going to try steelseal in it tomorrow.

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 22:36

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - hardway

Try steel seal if you want,

What's in it and how it works who knows.

Not me,

I repair cars/vans on accurate diagnosis,

Not "I think".

That's an ok place to start but no really much use.

I it were with me I'd begin with a dye block test,

Kind of idiot proof,

The blue fluid reacts to combustion gasses in the coolant.

If there are any,

Fluid changes from blue to either green or yellow depending on fuel type.

Not absolute but usually accurate enough,

Kits are arond £30-40.

Or taking the "Docs" advice you could use one of those point/shoot thermometers to check the rad for heat differences.

they're about £10 on fleabay.

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Sun 11 Mar 2018 23:59

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Point taken, But if the rad etc is working and its been flushed through (the garage claim) and no airlocks or anything, is there anything else it could be other than block or gasket?

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Mon 12 Mar 2018 04:20

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - hardway

Well it wouldn't be the first time a new coolant pump is faulty.

I had a Renault diesel in one time where the pump had siezed and almost destroyed the cam belt.

So the new pump I fitted was fouling the casting in the block.

Very nearly did the same as on the belt that it came in with.

Pump was exchaned for another and that one fitted and ran fine.

I'm not suggesting the same with yours but you've thrown some amount of cash/time at this.

And you stated it nearly emptied the coolant header it a short time,

That coolant "has" to have gone somwhere,

Either into the engine or out.

As stated I'd do a block dye test.

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Thu 22 Mar 2018 15:29

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

The block test showed no change so what on earth do I try next?

There was clearly air bubbling through the test fluid but it didn't change colour. There's no radiator cap so I had to do the test over the expansion tank. I ran the engine for 5 mins - then the water pressure built up and the expansion tank overflowed which is how its been losing water - what could be doing this? Or is the test possibly not working for some reason?

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Thu 22 Mar 2018 17:35

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Andrew-T

The block test showed no change so what on earth do I try next?

I found traces of oil in the coolant reservoir a while back, so I asked my indie to test the gasket. He reported it was OK, but I decided to have it renewed anyway, which cured the problem.

A HG test doesn't necessarily detect every leak.

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Thu 22 Mar 2018 19:23

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

I am starting to suspect water pump - this could be accounting for why the vacuum pump is getting extremely hot quickly. The water pump is very hard to get to in this van :(

I have no signs of oil in water or water in oil, the engine sounds fine, I have poured steelseal in it and now the block test comes back negative, so HG looking less likely maybe?

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Thu 22 Mar 2018 21:33

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - RichardW

It's most likely the head gasket, as these things fail for a past time. I'm not sure the gas test will pick up a diesel leak - doesn't it look for CO? If there are bubbles in tank, then I can't see it's anything but the HG. Try this... take the cap off in the morning after the engine has run the night before - is there still pressure there?. Now refit the cap and run the engine for 30s - 1min; shut down and check again. Pressure? Either = yes = HG failed. It's not too hard a job on a non turbo XUD; you will need to get the head skimmed though, and if it's been overheated there's a good chance the head will be scrap.

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Mon 12 Mar 2018 04:23

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - hardway

What's in this thing anyway?

The 1.7 or 1.9?

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Sun 18 Mar 2018 10:13

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Thanks for the suggestions. I will prob do a dye block test this week. But I have found out what is happening to the coolant so there is a bit of an update.

I tried Steelseal - the van seemed to go a bit further (like 4 miles as opposed to 2!) - but still have the problem. So I got it home, topped right up with coolant and ran it until it got hot - two things I observed:

1 - the water is being lost from the expasion tank due to intense bubbling and overheating - the expansion tank cap is secure and tight as it's always been, but there is a small hole, which is clearly meant to be there, below the cap and that is where the coolant is coming out because of the pressure and bubbling

2 - The brake vacuum pump gets very, very hot rather quickly. I am sure it shouldn't be getting so hot.

No sign of water leaking out from anywhere else, but perhaps I have a bad interbnal crack in the block? Either way, I will be doing the dye test this week, but I still have this feeling it is not block or gasket at fault. Yet it WAS the cold weather that triggered the problem...

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Sun 18 Mar 2018 14:54

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - John F

1 - the water is being lost from the expasion tank due to intense bubbling and overheating - .....

That almost certainly means that the combustion gases are exploding into the coolant. Causes? Usually a failed cylinder head gasket. Occasionally a warped or cracked head from overheating. Rarely a cracked block.

Either way, I will be doing the dye test this week, but I still have this feeling it is not block or gasket at fault.

Wishful feeling, methinks. The dye test merely confirms the leak you have vividly described. It doesn't tell you which cause.

Yet it WAS the cold weather that triggered the problem...

That increases the odds on a cracked block if you were mean with the antifreeeze.

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Sun 18 Mar 2018 10:13

Citroen C15 Champ 2002 Diesel - Cracked block/gasket on Citroen van, advice needed - Hydra1

Sorry, it's a 1.9

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