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Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - argybargy

I know that arguments about tyre brands tend to get a regular airing here, and there's probably little to add to what's already been said. However, being a bit lazy I'm not going to do a search, but just ask the question anyhow.

My Jazz has so far had 2 new Michelin Energy Savers, at 76 quid a pop, to replace both rear tyres which had extensively cracked sidewalls. The front tyres are not quite as bad but I'm going to replace them anyhow.

I've been looking at Avons (175/65/15s) and I can get two tyres from Blackcircles, fully fitted, at 50 quid each.

In the esteemed opinion of the members of this forum, would Avons be a decent substitute for Michelins?

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - argybargy

Sorry...for "arguments" in the post above, read "discussions".

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - SLO76
I try to keep identical rubber on all four wheels if at all possible as it keeps the same level of grip on each corner. Last thing you want is plenty of wet weather grip at the front giving you too much confidence in the rear which has less.
Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - argybargy
I try to keep identical rubber on all four wheels if at all possible as it keeps the same level of grip on each corner. Last thing you want is plenty of wet weather grip at the front giving you too much confidence in the rear which has less.

Thanks for that, SLO.

My first instinct was indeed to keep the same brand on all four wheels (which is what I've done in the past), but being someone who doesn't have a great deal of disposable income, considerations about the price began to take over.

What you say makes sense, and I'll bear it in mind.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - madf

I have just ordered Michelin Cross Climates to replace the Michelin Energy Savers - original fit to our 2012 Jazz. £75 a corner#, long life and better grip in snow were my considerations . Be aware Michelin Energy Savers can last twice as many miles as some other makes so cost per mile can be a lot less. But if upfront costs is what you want...

read: tinyurl.com/y8ren2ve Tyre reviews

# £25 off a set of 4 Blackcircles

Edited by madf on 05/03/2018 at 10:30

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - badbusdriver

Found this braking test of 185/60 x 15 'summer' tyres which includes the michelin energy saver+ and the avon ZT5 (are those what you aere looking at?)

www.tyretests.co.uk/summer-autobild-brzdnadraha-18...5

I can't see from what speed these braking tests were done from, but the difference in dry braking between the michelin and avon isn't too big, though still bigger than i'd expect (in favour of the michelin). The difference in wet braking though, is HUGE, the michelin stopping more than 10 meters shorter than the avon!.

Obviously this is up to you, but the combination of just how much better the michelin performs in the wet, coupled with the fact that, like SLO, i prefer to have matching tyres all round, means that i would definately go for the michelins.

Edited by badbusdriver on 05/03/2018 at 10:42

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - skidpan

I try to keep identical rubber on all four wheels if at all possible as it keeps the same level of grip on each corner. Last thing you want is plenty of wet weather grip at the front giving you too much confidence in the rear which has less.

Never bothered about having different brands front and rear until a few years ago, probably 15 at a guess. Had a Puma which was a great car with very tight handling. The original fit Goodyears had worn heavily on the front in about 15,000 miles and with winter on the horizon I fitted 2 new Michelins. Normally i would have put the new ones on the back but there was no measureable wear on them so simply fitted Michelins to the front. It totally spoilt the handling of the car, even at moderate speeds on urban traffic islands you could feel the back end had a mind of its own, add in a little damp and a push bike could pass you. So I fiited Michelins to the rear and normallity was resumed.

Will never mix tyres again. It may have worked with the narrower tyres of years ago but it it seems to me that the wideer/lower profile ones fitted today are much more sensitive.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - SLO76
“Had a Puma which was a great car with very tight handling.“

Absolutely loved these wee cars, an absolute hoot to drive and being based on a a Fiesta they were also cheap to buy and run. Tried to find a good one last year but sadly most are rotten now and body panels are largely impossible to find. If you ever find a good one grab hold and keep it nice, these are due classic status.
Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - Manatee

No, because it's preferable to have the same tyres on all four wheels.

It's not illegal but it stands to reason that putting tyres with different grip levels front and rear will change the handling one way or another.

That's why I also move the wheels around to wear them evenly and replace them all at the same time.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - argybargy

TBH, in posing the question I was hoping for expert validation of my own not entirely confident preference, which was buy Michelins. Fortunately, consensus from the Backroom leaves me no room for doubt.

On price alone I felt that at the very least I had to consider the Avons, but I'll go with the flow and give Mitch my business.

Many thanks to all.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - Engineer Andy

One thing I remember from the past was that Avons were considered to be softer tyres - good grip, but didn't last as long as other brands. Not sure if that still is the case. Relatively easy (10 minute search on the Tyre Reviews website) to find out which tyres generally are good/bad/indifferent and for the specific ones you have in mind.

Depending upon how long ago you had the rear tyres replaced, it may be both getting them swapped to the front and putting the new ones on the rear, as (this was shown on a test of a front-wheel drive car on 5th Gear some years ago) having older tyres with less grip on the rears can encourage the back end to get away in poorer road conditions.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - catsdad
The Avons are C for wet grip and the Michelins are A. Added to that the Michelins are 2db quieter. So Michelins are arguably better if these figures are to be believed.

Just a point on legality of tyre mix, while its OK in UK, the proposed mix would be illegal in Spain and perhaps countries too. There you need fully matching tyres (manufacturer, model etc). Maybe not a consideration for Argy but for anyone contemplating a ferry holiday to Spain it would be.

Mind you, having changed one unmatching tyre to ensure compliance for a holiday in Spain, I noticed the usual unmatched tyres on many local cars. Maybe its one of those semi-mythical or lapsed laws used to scare tourists?
Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - skidpan

Absolutely loved these wee cars, an absolute hoot to drive and being based on a a Fiesta they were also cheap to buy and run. Tried to find a good one last year but sadly most are rotten now and body panels are largely impossible to find. If you ever find a good one grab hold and keep it nice, these are due classic status.

Ours was a brand new "pre-reg" import from Motorpoint in 1999. We kept it nearly 6 years. Never let us down, only problems were new front suspension bushes and a heater valve.

At less than 6 years old the rear wings were showing signs of bubbling. The cause was clear, some total numpty at Ford had used an absorbent carpet like material to line the rear wheel arches instead of a plastic liner. I guess it made the car quieter but it held water like a sponge thus trapped water against the inside of the wing for most of the year. The person who specified it should have been publically flogged.

The car is still has an MOT but is on a SORN. No idea where it is but the MOT history is dreadful with loads of corrosion, brake, suspension problems and tyre issues over the years. I truly expect its now dead.

RIP.

Honda Jazz - Mitch or Ava? - argybargy

The Michelins have only been on the rear wheels for 500 miles or so, and my original plan was to put the the Mitch-shod wheels on the front and have new Avons fitted to the rear.

However, I've decided to follow the consensus of advice and go for Michelins all round for the many good reasons already posted above.

Many thanks one more time.