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Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - FiestaOwner

In one incident this week some drivers were reported to be stranded with their vehicles on the M80 for around 20 hours in freezing conditions. Police were advising drivers to stay with their vehicles.

Some of these drivers would have been doing a journey which was well within the range of an EV.

With a conventional combustion engine you could could have kept your engine running for the whole time (for heat), provided you had a reasonable amount of fuel in your tank.

My question is how does the interior heater of an pure EV work (Not a hybrid)? Does it use the car batteries? If so, it would surely have flattened the batteries shortly after being stranded leaving the occupants freezing (or dead) and leaving an non-driveable vehicle needing recovered.

Or does the heater work of petrol or diesel? Or am I missing something?

I realise that these are unusual and infrequent events, but if you are caught in a situation like this then it is a very real issue.

Some reports were that 1000 vehicles were stuck. Imagine if many of them were EV's. I don't know if any of the vehicles involved were EV's

I should add that I have no experience of EV's.

Edited by FiestaOwner on 03/03/2018 at 08:48

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - RobJP

As you've suspected, yes, the EV uses battery power to provide cabin heat.

In circumstances such as you mention, you'd be in serious danger in a relatively short period of time, with a completely flat battery and no means of heat.

It's a well-recognised fact that EV range is considerably lower in winter - batteries are less efficient in cold weather, and heaters, lights, etc make additional demands on battery life, leaving less available for range.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - mss1tw

As you've suspected, yes, the EV uses battery power to provide cabin heat.

In circumstances such as you mention, you'd be in serious danger in a relatively short period of time, with a completely flat battery and no means of heat.

It's a well-recognised fact that EV range is considerably lower in winter - batteries are less efficient in cold weather, and heaters, lights, etc make additional demands on battery life, leaving less available for range.

Simply carry a selection of tools and cable, and connect up to the nearest lamp post.

;)

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - sandy56

The newer electric cars can be programmed to heat the cabin before moving off. This should really only be done whilst the car is still plugged in as obviously the heating will use battery power. If you are only using the car for a short trip then you will probably be OK, if it isnt plugged in, but you do have to use an electric car in a different way.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - buspasser

Perhaps a different use if trapped in arctic weather could be as a coffin!

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - badbusdriver

I'd like to think that other vehicle drivers would accomodate any electric car owners who were stuck with flat batteries!

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - RobJP

I'd like to think that other vehicle drivers would accomodate any electric car owners who were stuck with flat batteries!

And what exactly happens when we've all been 'encouraged' to buy EVs, and there are no 'other' vehicle drivers in the 20 hour snowbound traffic jam on the M74/M62 ?

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - gordonbennet

And what exactly happens when we've all been 'encouraged' to buy EVs, and there are no 'other' vehicle drivers in the 20 hour snowbound traffic jam on the M74/M62 ?

assume humourous stage accent here....'you too will be going on ze list'

Ethan Edwards below (Comrade.:-)))) will be joining you, plus Corax who like you fellows (unwisely these days) insists on using good common sense and deviating from the script of the day at your mutual peril.:-)

I agree with you chaps mind, whether saying that triggers the politician's/appartchik's personal stormtroopers to smash our doors in at 5am remains to be seen.

Don't worry there will always be some good old dinosaur powered lorries stuck in the jam ups...whoops, no good they'll be driverless apparently by then in the new utopia so no human space required.

What's that song from Oliver which our leaders and in their own (and no one else's) opinion betters should recall? 'i think i'd better think it out again'

Edited by gordonbennet on 04/03/2018 at 04:37

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

And what exactly happens when we've all been 'encouraged' to buy EVs, and there are no 'other' vehicle drivers in the 20 hour snowbound traffic jam on the M74/M62 ?

assume humourous stage accent here....'you too will be going on ze list'

Ethan Edwards below (Comrade.:-)))) will be joining you, plus Corax who like you fellows (unwisely these days) insists on using good common sense and deviating from the script of the day at your mutual peril.:-)

I agree with you chaps mind, whether saying that triggers the politician's/appartchik's personal stormtroopers to smash our doors in at 5am remains to be seen.

Don't worry there will always be some good old dinosaur powered lorries stuck in the jam ups...whoops, no good they'll be driverless apparently by then in the new utopia so no human space required.

What's that song from Oliver which our leaders and in their own (and no one else's) opinion betters should recall? 'i think i'd better think it out again'

I`m begining to think its a waste of time going all electric and driverless (not that I thought it was a good idea in the first place)

recent reports say the chemicals indoors are as bad for you(possibly worse) than car emissions, though I cant find the report now but it is out there.

but with all these reports that spring up, it seems to me we are getting absolutely no where in preventing these problems from occuring and wasting our time trying

and with the tree huggers and the greens saying they are fighting for clean air, I do not think it will ever happen, due to the fact air is dirty anyway and not likely to get much cleaner.

I`m still not convinced global warming is our fault. I am convinced that its nature taking its course which it has allways done. and that will never change

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - barney100

I agree.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Engineer Andy

I'd like to think that other vehicle drivers would accomodate any electric car owners who were stuck with flat batteries!

And what exactly happens when we've all been 'encouraged' to buy EVs, and there are no 'other' vehicle drivers in the 20 hour snowbound traffic jam on the M74/M62 ?

Your journey ends here.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 22/11/2018 at 17:19

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - edlithgow

If you set off into a blizzard depending on the continued functionality of your vehicle as your sole means of survival, you presumably accept the obvious risk of death due to mechanical failure (IC) or flat battery (EV)

I lived in a Nissan Sunny through an Aberdeen winter while doing a 1-year MSc. I had two cheapo Argos sleeping bags. I never considered running the engine for heat and was never uncomfortable, though the car was sometimes covered in sheet ice in the morning..

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - craig-pd130

A pure EV does use the high-voltage battery for heating, etc. Once it's flat, that's your lot.

Hybrids and plug-in hybrids can burn petrol when the main battery flattens.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

A pure EV does use the high-voltage battery for heating, etc. Once it's flat, that's your lot.

Hybrids and plug-in hybrids can burn petrol when the main battery flattens.

Thats one reason why I doubt EVs will take off in respect of buyers unless they drive in town all the time.

at least you can trust a Hybrid to keep you going untill the engine runs out of fuel and batteries run flat, which gives companies a chance to improve EV batteries

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - daveyjp
Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel.

I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.
Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt
Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.

I was under the assumption that the engine adjusted revs according to electrical power needed, if that is not the case their is no point in having a hybrid.

I would have thought the generators (depending on motor ie may only be one) were capable of generating what is needed in a car no matter what the current draw is?

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Ethan Edwards

I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge. Riding a bike was actually warmer because you wear more clothes.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge.

I had a Vauxhall Viva that had no heater, it had been bypassed because the matrix had a leak, almost in the same weather so I know what its like to be without one

I used a hairdryer in the morning to defrost the windscreen for a week untill I fixed it, in those days a typical Vauxhall!

It puts you off Hybrids though if they cannot cope with electrical demand, if, whats said is true?

global warming or not, a motor should be capable of surviving the worst of our weather imo.

Edited by bolt on 03/03/2018 at 20:22

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - coopshere
Surely the point here is that they didn’t heed the well published warnings on weather conditions.

Of all the much published reports of stranded motorists over the last few days I have seen nothing to suggest that they were just unfortunate to find themselves in those conditions. The warnings were there they just chose to ignore them and in doing so put others at risk. Some even complained that they didn’t see any police trying to help them, unbelievable.
Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Ethan Edwards

I had a Yaris Hybrid and it's true the heater isn't as quick to temperature. But I'd have one again..just wear gloves till it warms up. Let's hope the glorious revolutionary council of Comrade Korbynski rescinds the idiotic decree that we must all be driving kiddy cars by 2040.

I for one welcome our new Alien overlords..etc etc

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - RT
Surely the point here is that they didn’t heed the well published warnings on weather conditions. Of all the much published reports of stranded motorists over the last few days I have seen nothing to suggest that they were just unfortunate to find themselves in those conditions. The warnings were there they just chose to ignore them and in doing so put others at risk. Some even complained that they didn’t see any police trying to help them, unbelievable.

The warnings not to travel unless essential leaves it open to the driver to define "essential"

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Engineer Andy

I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge. Riding a bike was actually warmer because you wear more clothes.

Not just that, the body is exerting itself and genrating FAR more heat than when seated at rest, making you feel warm, as long as you have a source of fuel (food and a hot drink)! I regularly go for long brisk walks at this time of year, and my hands are cold at the start, even with gloves on, but often by then end of my walk (1hr+ later), I don't have the gloves on any more (unless it's REALLY cold).

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Engineer Andy
Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.

I was under the assumption that the engine adjusted revs according to electrical power needed, if that is not the case their is no point in having a hybrid.

I would have thought the generators (depending on motor ie may only be one) were capable of generating what is needed in a car no matter what the current draw is?

I suppose it depends upon the quality and, more importantly, the condition of the car's battery and especially the alternator.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - bathtub tom
Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.

The alternator on any modern petrol or diesel car should be more than capable of providing enough electrical energy to run a heater motor and ignition circuits at tickover, as long as high energy circuits (lights HRW) are off.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.

Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.

A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?

So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.

Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.

A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?

So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).

Not so sure about that, as the surrounding wind temp being around minus 10 or lower would take the heat away rather rapidly, so the heater would be fighting the cold

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - RobJP

The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.

Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.

A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?

So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).

Not so sure about that, as the surrounding wind temp being around minus 10 or lower would take the heat away rather rapidly, so the heater would be fighting the cold

In addition to which, your living room almost certainly isn't 30+% glass area, has very thick double-glazed units, loads of other insulation, and isn't constructed of a terribly fast heat-losing metal construction !

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

You are getting to tied-up with the detail, even at 2kw there would be enough for 11 hours (and remember this is assuming only 25% battery). There would be sufficient heating power unless the battery was flat (same as if you had no petrol / diesel). And from the number of perople I see putting £10 worth in at the filling station (less than two gallons), they would be in more danger?

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

You are getting to tied-up with the detail, even at 2kw there would be enough for 11 hours (and remember this is assuming only 25% battery). There would be sufficient heating power unless the battery was flat (same as if you had no petrol / diesel). And from the number of perople I see putting £10 worth in at the filling station (less than two gallons), they would be in more danger?

I think you would get tied up with detail if you was in that situation, the heater will only come from ports under the dash or from the top of dash from small holes, if you consider the area of the interior, that heat has to overcome the freezing cold.

I sat in my car the other day waiting for someone, with the heater on full heat, fan on 4, and it was not very good at heating the whole car or around me due to wind temp of around minus 10 as shown by the cars temp sensor

its like sitting in front of a 2kw heater at home, your reasonable at the front but back is freezing

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62
I sat in my car the other day waiting for someone, with the heater on full heat, fan on 4, and it was not very good at heating the whole car or around me due to wind temp of around minus 10 as shown by the cars temp sensor

its like sitting in front of a 2kw heater at home, your reasonable at the front but back is freezing

The clue there is SAT in my car (i.e. the engine was ticking-over). In this circumstance the engine is not producing much wasted heat (the stuff you need in an IC car to warm you up). In a battery car, the readily available power can be used to warm you up or drive the car, it is not a by-product of the engine).

I think you would be BETTER-OFF in a battery car to be honest (given the same amount of avaialble energy when you got stuck). At least the battery car wouldn't try and poison you to death.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

I think you would be BETTER-OFF in a battery car to be honest (given the same amount of avaialble energy when you got stuck). At least the battery car wouldn't try and poison you to death.

no it would probably freeze me to death instead

I was only waiting a few minutes,(I didn`t mention that) and did not get stuck-and am very pleased with how the Civic performed in the bad weather.

But I will stay with diesel thanks very much

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

Bolt, you need a physics lesson

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - bathtub tom

Bolt was in a diesel. The thermal efficiency of diesel engines means there is very little waste heat for the heater and at tickover there's probably none.

I recall a Winter journey in a diesel when I felt the car snaking, presumably an untreated road. I slowed to around 30MPH and the car gradually got colder. Looking at the temperature gauge, it was going down. The heater was taking more heat than the engine was generating!

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

Thank you BT.

I once had a diesel car flooded due to blocked scuttle drains. Despite it being a pleasantly warm weekend, leaving it ticking-over all day (to try and dry it out) was totally pointless. The temperature gauge hardly left the stop. A hairdryer sorted the job out (I could have plugged this into the battery if it had been an EV) ;)

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - gordonbennet

I recall a Winter journey in a diesel when I felt the car snaking, presumably an untreated road. I slowed to around 30MPH and the car gradually got colder. Looking at the temperature gauge, it was going down. The heater was taking more heat than the engine was generating!

Funny you should mention that, some here will recall that even if our cars were well maintained and with working thermostats, during the winters we used to get cold as this regularly we'd often block at least part of the radiator off to help keeps thing warm, these were usually petrol engined,

Well, in the late 70's and early 80's i used to drive Scammell Crusader lorries regularly, these had an automatically operated slatted blind (similar to a Venetian blind) in front of the radiator, the slats would be closed to help prevent overcooling, and would open when the temp was right, simple and it worked.

Well i was issued with a new Scania about 3 weeks ago, part of the kit was a plastic sheet with holes in each corner, this is supposed to be attached in front of the radiator if travelling in temps below -5'C, rather heath robinson compared to a Scammell of 40 years ago (a vehicle many new lorry drivers of today would sneer at), but surprised me to see it there regardless.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

Bolt, you need a physics lesson

No not really, common sense tells you that in severe negative- temperaturs we had the other day, no car is going to heat up inside the same as it would in +temps, the volume of cold air going over the car drops the temp severely

unless of course your saying that steel and glass are fully insulated against cold and heat

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

I'm not on about heat loss, I'm talking about the ability of a high powered / high capacity battery to provide heat v's a diesel engine on tickover.

You would have to rev the b******* off your oil burner to stay warm.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

I'm not on about heat loss, I'm talking about the ability of a high powered / high capacity battery to provide heat v's a diesel engine on tickover.

You would have to rev the b******* off your oil burner to stay warm.

well maybe about 1500 rpm to keep warm, if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, they are not good enough at the moment, range is not far enough and untill I have to, I am not putting in a charging point for a car

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, ........

I'm doing nothing of the sort, I'm trying to explain that if you were stuck (in snow, or whatever), an EV would be just as capable of providing cabin heat as a diesel and maybe it would be better as a diesel on tickover does not give-out much excess heat.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - galileo

if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, ........

I'm doing nothing of the sort, I'm trying to explain that if you were stuck (in snow, or whatever), an EV would be just as capable of providing cabin heat as a diesel and maybe it would be better as a diesel on tickover does not give-out much excess heat.

Capable until the battery is flat. How many hours will that take?

Bear in mind people have recently been stuck for 12 hours plus, and wouldn't have had 100% full batteries when they got stuck.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - FiestaOwner

Hi Nick

I see your reasoning in favour of the EV heating. I also know that the diesel Transit vans I drive produce next to no heat and won't de-ice just by starting the engine and turning the demister on. I usually put a fan heater in the cab and leave it for 20 mins.

I presumed (probably wrongly) that once the engine was hot, that the engine would stay hot, when idling, with the heater on (if I got stuck for a few hours).

Of course, the Jaguar you mention has a big battery and is a very expensive car. The current version of the Leaf has a battery less that half the size at 40KWH.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - wrangler_rover
My experience of hybrids is as follows.
As a company car driver doing 30,000 miles per year mainly on motorways and A roads, my choice of 7 company cars last year comprised 6 x 2 litre diesels and the Mitsubishi Outlander plug in hybrid. I chose the Outlander purely for the low company car tax liability. Due to the short range, 300 miles on a full tank, I was filling it every day I was out on business in it. It was the basic specification car so it did not have the facility of warming the cabin while the battery was being charged at home.
It only came into it's own at weekends when my 14 mile round trip into town was purely on battery, the engine did not start if it was driven carefully. Fast forward to winter, I could still get into town and back, just, entirely on battery. BUT, without the engine running, there was no means of demisting the windows so it was either make with a cloth or open the windows. Driving a hybrid on petrol only to warm the cabin and demist the windows seems to me to contradict the reason ecological reasons for driving a plug in hybrid. I no longer have the car as I left the company in January so the Outlander went back.
Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Avant

That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?

Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?

Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?

On checking the site it says its switchable, ie if you switch to EV mode it prevent/limits engine use and aircon, bearing in mind it is meant to be a hybrid so their was no reason apart from driver that did not want to use it, that it couldn`t have been used

so not so sure it was worth a moan about as driver knew what the car was or maybe didnt know it worked like that

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - craig-pd130

That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?

Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?

The 225xe can run full aircon / demist etc on battery-only. Of course, running the aircon drains the battery a lot faster than just using the normal electric heating: I'd estimate aircon usage reduces the battery-only range by 25%

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - sandy56

The most popular EV in Norway is the TESLA. They do seem to manage ok, most owners have off street parking and the car will be warm before they unplug it, and drive off.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - daveyjp
Compared to the Leaf I used to drive occasionally, the Prius plug in which has replaced it is a big letdown in the heating department.

Leaf heat was instantaneous and it had a heated windscreen. The first time I used it it was well below freezing and the car was covered in frost. I jumped in set heating to max and within a minute hot air and ice melted.

The Prius has no heated windscreen and when I used it for the first time a few weeks ago I was late to a meeting. It took ages to generate enough heat to demist as it was no different to a normal car and this after I had scraped the ice off.
Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - FiestaOwner

The most popular EV in Norway is the TESLA. They do seem to manage ok, most owners have off street parking and the car will be warm before they unplug it, and drive off.

Quite accept what you are saying. In winter, I like the idea of having a warm car interior before driving off. It's also a lot safer as there is then no issues with windows icing up when you start driving.

With the weather we have had in the past week, it's quite possible that you wouldn't be able to access a charge point at one end of your journey (and have to park a few streets away). So you would need to use some of your battery range, to power the heater, to de-ice the car.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Brit_in_Germany

Why can't they build in a small fuel tank and run a webasto type heater? It wouldn't count for CO2/NOX emissions if you can switch it off.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - focussed

Why can't they build in a small fuel tank and run a webasto type heater? It wouldn't count for CO2/NOX emissions if you can switch it off.

You can't say things like that on a public forum. What about the children?

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Engineer Andy

The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.

Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.

A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?

So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).

A home has FAR better insulation than a car, especially as the windows in a car make up far more of the external skin of the car and most are only single glazed. ICE cars don't have a problem, especially petrol engined ones, as their combustion process emits a lot of heat energy that can be used to heat the car (deliberately or not), whereas EVs generate far less heat during usage - great for efficiency, not so good when stuck in the snow for hours.

I suspect that the heat loss in a car would be near to 5x that of a modern home per m2 of interior space as a result of the poor insulation of the exterior and the vent holes that can never be blocked. You might do better if you covered the car completely in snow (EVs) to make it like an igloo.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - VancleVector

1. Fuel heating method
After the fuel heater is started, the oil pump starts to draw oil from the fuel tank and delivers the fuel to the heater. The fuel is atomized into a combustible oil and gas mixture by the atomizing device and ignited by the spark plug. The coolant in the water circulation system is heated as it flows through the heater and then flows into the heater core to provide sufficient heat to the cab to provide a comfortable environment for the occupants to meet the requirements of the defrost and defogging regulations.

2. electric heating method

Most of the electric heating methods use PTC heating. PTC is the abbreviation of PositiveTemperature Coefficient, which means a positive temperature coefficient, which refers to a semiconductor material or component with a large positive temperature coefficient. Generally speaking, the PTC refers to a positive temperature coefficient thermistor, abbreviated as a PTC thermistor. A PTC thermistor is a typical temperature-sensitive semiconductor resistor. When a certain temperature (Curie temperature) is exceeded, its resistance increases sharply with increasing temperature. That is, the power of the PTC heater will suddenly drop to a minimum, returning the temperature below its Curie temperature. Because of this characteristic, the PTC heater has the advantages of constant temperature heating, no open flame, and long service life.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Snakey

Maybe the bigger problem is we're so utterly pathetic at coping with snow - which is why Norway cope with EV's a lot better!

We have warnings about snow for weeks, and then when it comes the roads aren't gritted, we have no ploughs and people are left on motorways for 10+ hours which is an unbelievably third world situation.

Norway have a lot more snow, but they prepare for it - they rarely close an airport, unlike us when we close with a dusting of snow.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - alan1302

Norway have a lot more snow, but they prepare for it - they rarely close an airport, unlike us when we close with a dusting of snow.

And that's the main reason Norway are better than us at dealing with the snow. They have lots of it and have it all the time so money and resources are put into it as it's needed.

Most parts of the UK see very little snow so it's not worth investing a load of money for a few days snow.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Snakey

Norway have a lot more snow, but they prepare for it - they rarely close an airport, unlike us when we close with a dusting of snow.

And that's the main reason Norway are better than us at dealing with the snow. They have lots of it and have it all the time so money and resources are put into it as it's needed.

Most parts of the UK see very little snow so it's not worth investing a load of money for a few days snow.

But don't we keep saying that same thing every time we have snow - so maybe its about time we acknowledged that we do get snow pretty regularly, although varying amounts!

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

Norway have a lot more snow, but they prepare for it - they rarely close an airport, unlike us when we close with a dusting of snow.

And that's the main reason Norway are better than us at dealing with the snow. They have lots of it and have it all the time so money and resources are put into it as it's needed.

Most parts of the UK see very little snow so it's not worth investing a load of money for a few days snow.

But don't we keep saying that same thing every time we have snow - so maybe its about time we acknowledged that we do get snow pretty regularly, although varying amounts!

You mean get the small collective of misers who effectively run the UK to spend some of their billions on helping the prols, ................ pull the other one.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - alan1302

Norway have a lot more snow, but they prepare for it - they rarely close an airport, unlike us when we close with a dusting of snow.

And that's the main reason Norway are better than us at dealing with the snow. They have lots of it and have it all the time so money and resources are put into it as it's needed.

Most parts of the UK see very little snow so it's not worth investing a load of money for a few days snow.

But don't we keep saying that same thing every time we have snow - so maybe its about time we acknowledged that we do get snow pretty regularly, although varying amounts!

Do you want our tax payers money spent to be able to clear the snow a few times a year?

I certainly don't want lots spent on it when it will only have an affect once or twice a year at most.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - sandy56

You have obviously never spent six hours travelling through snowdrifts to travel sixteen miles. Yes I had winter tyres, a snow shovel boots and a heavy coat and hat, but that doesnt get through 4- 5 foot deep snow drifts.

We need to have a central pool of snow clearing equipment, snowploughs gritters etc, so it can be moved to the areas worst hit. But that is a sensible idea and when do we have politicians spending our money wisely?

Having our major roads blocked for hours, with thousands of motorists stranded, is not acceptable to most people.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - RT

You have obviously never spent six hours travelling through snowdrifts to travel sixteen miles. Yes I had winter tyres, a snow shovel boots and a heavy coat and hat, but that doesnt get through 4- 5 foot deep snow drifts.

We need to have a central pool of snow clearing equipment, snowploughs gritters etc, so it can be moved to the areas worst hit. But that is a sensible idea and when do we have politicians spending our money wisely?

Having our major roads blocked for hours, with thousands of motorists stranded, is not acceptable to most people.

England's snowfall is unpredictable, both in timing and location - a central depot of snow-clearing equipment could take hours to arrive anyway. The Scottish method of closing roads at least keeps people safe.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - nick62

Should have got Boris's water cannons filled with anti-freeze...................

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - KB.

A couple of years on .... the onward march of EVs hasn't waned, in fact quite the opposite, apparently.

Despite what we're told about petrol/diesel being phased out sooner than was thought we're all still uncertain about so much associated with dependance on them - and despite having looked through much of the above, it's still not clear to me how we'll get on with EVs in a properly cold winter and I still haven't grasped how the heater actually works. I've seen the terms " resistive heater" and "heat pumps" but, sadly, I'm too stupid to make sense of either.

Anyone bright enough to explain?

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bromptonaut

I've seen the terms " resistive heater" and "heat pumps"

Not that bright but I've read a bit today about heat pumps in a household environment. Think air conditioning in reverse- heat is sucked from the air outside and used to heat the car.

I'd guess a resistive heater is using leccy to warm wires - like a fan heater.

Either can run while the car is charging and potentially store heat either in a liquid or blocks similar to those in a storage heater. If that gets the car warm before setting off, and can keep it that way without recourse to leccy that might otherwise be available to the motors for an hour, then that's enough for a hell of a lot of people's commutes.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - KB.

You could be right.

Either way the whole EV thing sounds mighty complex for the average Joe when lights start appearing on the dash just as he's about to leave for Midnight Mass in the cold and wet.

I think I'll put the whole thing off until either (a) I'm forced to adopt it (by which time, hopefully, there'll be enough people around who understand it and can overcome the sundry problems that'll occur) - or (b) I'm no longer extant and don't have to worry about it any more.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Terry W

Radical solution for those worried about being caught in snow or a bit of cold.

Keep a thick coat, blanket, a few bars of chocolate, and a couple of bottles of water in the boot. Will keep you warm, fed and irrigated for 12 hours!

The water may freeze if it gets really cold so perhaps vodka would be an alternative solution.

Alternatively you could join the numpties who, after having been advised of severe weather, simply think that they are immune from snowdrifts - just stay at home.

With apologies to the less than 5% who genuinely live in truly remote areas.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Avant

Fear not, KB: I'm sure you'd have the good sense to charge the EV up on Christmas Eve!

At least in theory, there should be fewer things to go wrong with an EV than an ICE car, so one would hope fewer reasons for the Christmas tree to light up on the dashboard.

That said, we haven't seen a Land Rover EV yet....

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - focussed

I'm not particularly bright but a "resistive heater" sounds like a heater with a resistive element - like your common or garden mains powered fan heater.

Heat pumps are in effect a refrigerator running backwards. The cold bit like the inside of your 'fridge is outside the car being warmed up by outside heat - (you hope in a scottish blizzard!) and the warm bit is comparable to the condenser element at the back of your 'fridge which gets hot and which presumably is inside the car to hopefully warm you and the windscreen up.

But why on earth any manufacturer would go the expense and complication of a heat pump system to provide heat for a car interior. is beyond me.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - bathtub tom

I understand the electrical system of an EV generates quite a bit of heat. How much of that can be used to heat the cabin, I don't know.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - focussed

I understand the electrical system of an EV generates quite a bit of heat. How much of that can be used to heat the cabin, I don't know.

I was reading up on fuel cell EV's fuelled by hydrogen and they are only about 40% efficient in the fuel cell, so they need a cooling system, more than enough heat available for interior heating, The battery EV's I don't know either!

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Chris79

I drove my 2020 Ioniq full electric to work today, when I left at 6am it was 8c outside and the range showed as 183 miles. I would estimate the 100% range has decreased by around 15 miles since the temperature has dropped, it used to show some where between 196-200 when fully charged.

i drove to work (45 miles), a minute of 60% dual carriageway and 40% a roads. I didn’t push it and left the car in eco mode rather than normal or sport.

the heated seats remained on for the whole journey along with the heated steering wheel, the fan setting was on 1 (minimum) and temperature set to 21c.

Once on the dual carriageways I sat at 60 with the adaptive cruise control on and when I reached work the range was 140 miles left. In effect I’d used 43 miles of range for 45 miles of actual journey.

it is true to say I have made compromises now I drive an EV. Before in my diesel I’d have whacked the heater to full, had it set on an higher fan setting and driven faster with less concern for gentle acceleration, that said I wasn’t in a hurry so it didn’t make one jot of difference.

would I have run out of battery if I’d been stuck in traffic for hours with the heater on, ultimately yes but it’s not a pressing concern of mine.

at the moment it is costing me £3.35 to put a 100 miles of charge in the car, as opposed to roughly £10.35 of diesel working on 50mpg and £1.15 a litre.

The car (leased) is costing me 306£ a month inclusive of everything bar electricity and as it is by salary sacrifice there is an income tax saving associated with it.

on this basis at the moment it is an absolute no brainer, how long the BiK holiday will last is another matter but for now I’m making hay whilst the sun shines.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - madf

I understand the electrical system of an EV generates quite a bit of heat. How much of that can be used to heat the cabin, I don't know.

All vehicle with batteries used for motion (EVs and hybrids) have battery cooling systems.

I believe in most cases driven by air and exhausted into the outside

(In the case of the Ford Kuga EV, not very well designed with fires resulting from overheating. Now redesigned and being retrofitted Typical of a company poor at testing new products)

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - KB.

Whilst thanking those who replied, I don't think I'm any wiser with regard to knowing how EV heaters work.

The heater on an ICE is simlicity itself to understand (even if getting to the matrix behind the dashboard isn't) ... but i haven't understood how an EV heater works. Maybe the simple explanation is it's just an element like a fan heater? If it's that simple then so be it.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - edlithgow

The heater on an ICE is simlicity itself to understand (even if getting to the matrix behind the dashboard isn't) .

Mine isn't.

There's no matrix, so I THINK any heating provision must be via the aircon system.

Which I don't understand and have never used.

If there's a sudden global cooling I'll be in big trouble. Might have to wear a jacket.

If I was from Newcastle, I wouldn't be able to do that, and I'd die.

Edited by edlithgow on 01/12/2020 at 00:20

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - galileo

The heater on an ICE is simlicity itself to understand (even if getting to the matrix behind the dashboard isn't) .

Mine isn't.

There's no matrix, so I THINK any heating provision must be via the aircon system.

Which I don't understand and have never used.

If there's a sudden global cooling I'll be in big trouble. Might have to wear a jacket.

If I was from Newcastle, I wouldn't be able to do that, and I'd die.

Your last sentence is so true, my son went to Newcastle Uni but used to go out in shirt sleeves when it snowed at home in the West Riding anyway.

THREAD REVIVAL ALERT! Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - bathtub tom

If I was from Newcastle, I wouldn't be able to do that, and I'd die.

Not if you had a gender re-assignment, put on a massive amount of weight and wore a mini-skirt.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Avant

"But why on earth any manufacturer would go the expense and complication of a heat pump system to provide heat for a car interior is beyond me."

I believe it's to give the EV more range by taking some of the effort of providing heat off the main battery.

Someone more knowledgeable than I may be able to explain that in a more scientific way (it could hardly be less, but then I'm a classics graduate). Actually, Focussed, your answer to your own question is probably as good as any.

Edited by Avant on 29/11/2020 at 17:07

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - bazza

I think Kia/Hyundai are using it in th Niro etc. The heat pump scavenges waste heat from the power pack and motors etc, which would otherwise go to waste and uses it as described above to produce cabin heat where required. And also to maintain the battery at the optimum temperature under various conditions. I suspect it can also function as air con. A resistive heater off the main battery would use too much power and reduce the effective range. Interesting subject, haven't considered it before, as of course heating is effectively free in an ICE due to its huge inefficiency, only about 30 to 40 % efficient at converting fuel to movement.

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - Bolt

New Prius system

Toyota Prius Prime Breakthrough Heat Pump, Bumps EV Range In Cold (insideevs.com)

Apparently engine water pump and thermostats are now controlled by ECU and not user serviceable now, keeps engine temp optimum and better fuel economy

Electric Car (EV) Interior Heaters - mcb100

The Zoe does use a heat pump for heating and cooling. It will produce 3Kw of cooling or 2Kw of heat for 1Kw electricity consumption.