Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 16:18
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

www.facebook.com/paul.valentine.100/posts/98994814...f

In the old highway code it stated that you had to slow down, and join traffic without causing it to change speed or direction, stating that you even had to stop if you could not do so.

The new wording makes people think you never have to stop, not under any circumstances, this video clearly shows how the stupid people interprit teh current rules.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 16:20
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

Ignore top video, just play the bottom one and fast forward about 3/4 of the way through, the video does not show it but the guys was also tooting his horn as well. There is another vehicle in front of the 2 artics for those who are asking why I dont speed up.

I hope you can see as well how he tried to stop me from coming onto the motorway

Edited by 30 yr's a Professional Driver on 02/03/2018 at 16:23

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:00
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - skidpan

As far as I ama aware the rule has always been gain speed and join without causing a vehicle on the carriageway to change its spped or deviate form its course. But equally in you are approaching an on slip you need to be aware of vehicles enteringa nd if possible move over or adjust your speed to allow them safe enty.

But at the end of the day the car already on the motorway has the right of way.

As for stopping on the slip road that is totally stupid, a way to cause a dreadful accident.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:27
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - RobJP

Asuming the video is yours, then I completely fail to understand why you didn't use your acceleration to get a decent distance ahead of the 2 HGVs and thus make your own life a lot safer.

The Range Rover appeared to manage it.

You, on the other hand, dawdled your way up to 40mph or so, and then sat there, waiting for other people to magically let you in. And then jammed on the brakes when that didn't happen.

For someone who is "30 years a 'professional' driver", your driving standards don't seem exactly brilliant.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:45
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Bromptonaut

Why on earth did driver not get a move on like the Range Rover did?

Even if you stick with nearside lane of slip it's still not difficult to do it properly. Can see a white car moving into lane 1 ahead of the lead artic but surely a bit of welly around the 7m 20 point in vid would have solved the problem. Instead the driver dawdles and possibly even brakes causing a conflict with the following van/pick up.

Was it the same road warrior's vid the other week with the suposedly close following HGV?

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Sat 3 Mar 2018 13:53
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

there where other vehicles in front of the artics, since I could not get in front the only way was to fold in behind, hence the slowing down, had I carried on at the same speed or faster I would have driven into the side of the vehicles already on the carriageway.

Would you have speed up only to have to slam your brakes on at the last minute.

Ps it is the camera from the rear of the car, so unless you have a magic button how an earth do you know what is in front of me ?

Edited by Avant on 04/03/2018 at 16:51

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Sat 3 Mar 2018 14:14
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - RobJP

there where other vehicles in front of the artics you fool, since I could not get in front the only way was to fold in behind, hence the slowing down, had I carried on at the same speed or faster I would have driven into the side of the vehicles already on the carriageway.

Your answer is the perfect demonstration, of the problem with car drivers these days on motorway slip roads. Would you have speed up only to have to slam your brakes on at the last minute.

Ps it is the camera from the rear of the car, so unless you have a magic button how an earth do you know what is in front of me ?

We know perfectly well that a Range Rover managed to get in.

We can see, perfectly clearly, that you positively dawdled your way up to 40-ish mph, and failed to make any reasonable attempt to merge with the traffic until it was far too late. You used no real anticipation, no 'road sense'. When you finally looked over your shoulder and realised there was no gap to pull in to, you then slammed on the brakes - nearly causing an accident with the vehicle following you, who quite rightly flashed you and sounded his horn at you for you being such a novice and grossly incompetent

For someone who claims to be '30 years a professional driver', you verge on the incompetent. I've seen OAPs use slip roads in similar ways, and they're positively dangerous.

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Sun 4 Mar 2018 15:20
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Bromptonaut

there where other vehicles in front of the artics you fool,

Unless the Adstock truck was literally tailgaiting somebody, and it's not evident at the point where you're ahead of him that he was, then you could have got ahead, matched his speed and slipped into the gap. Even if that left you tailgated and/or with less than optimal seperation from the vehicle in front it'd have been less dangerous than what you did. You'd then have had option of moving into lane 2 or controlling your space to Adstock man either dropped back or overtook.

If you really were caught at end of slip with nowhere to go I believe the approved technique is to use the hard shoulder. I've certainly seen that suggested in past on Police, Action type programmes.

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Sat 3 Mar 2018 14:20
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - galileo

Asuming the video is yours, then I completely fail to understand why you didn't use your acceleration to get a decent distance ahead of the 2 HGVs and thus make your own life a lot safer.

The Range Rover appeared to manage it.

You, on the other hand, dawdled your way up to 40mph or so, and then sat there, waiting for other people to magically let you in. And then jammed on the brakes when that didn't happen.

For someone who is "30 years a 'professional' driver", your driving standards don't seem exactly brilliant.

Perhaps he's spent 30 years driving a roadsweeper?

Edited by galileo on 03/03/2018 at 14:22

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 07:46
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

There was 3 hgv's and a car, which I observed from the top of the slip road, no space to get in front as I explained

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:53
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - corax
As for stopping on the slip road that is totally stupid, a way to cause a dreadful accident.

Agreed. There is a very short local slip road close to me, and you have to accelerate quickly to match speed on the dual carriageway. Be too hesitant and at a busy time of day you can be stuck at a standstill at the end of the sliproad with HGV's flashing by who can't move out, creating a very dangerous situation where you have to try to accelerate from nothing.

Luckily this slip road is accessed by driving over the dual carriageway beforehand, giving plenty of opportunity to evaluate approaching traffic and plan your approach speed.

I always dread being behind a ditherer as they are putting me in danger as well as themselves.

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 07:52
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

The only way to avoid a standstill is to do what I did, and actually plan to fold in behind the vehicles already on the carriageway, as explained there where in fact 3 hgvs and a car, so no room to get in front, the trouble is people have no patience to wait and feel peeved when someone correctly does a slower speed to fit in with the road in front of them, or for that matter adverse weather conditions.

I went to my mothers house once, really bad snow and ice, could barely see, so I was doing 30 in a 60 on a twisty road, a range rover and another car overook because they deemed I was going to slow, 4 miles or so down the road, the range rover was in a ditch and had driven off the road.

There is a lesson to be learnt here.

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Sat 3 Mar 2018 14:21
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Engineer Andy

As far as I can see, and its not 100% conclusive as the camera was rear-facing, the driver of the camera car should've accelerated (and had more than enough time to do so as the slip road first approached the motorway) following the Range Rover inbetween the van and HGVs that were in the nearside lane of the motorway and slipping on asap after the dashed lines started.

The only ways this might've not been possible (we'll never know without a forward-facing camera video - odd why it wasn't included and a rearward-facing one was) is if:

1. The Range Rover joining the motorway in front of the camera car or van passing in the nearside lane slowed down, thus not leaving any useful/safe gap for the camera car to filter in, in front of the first HGV, and/or;

2. The vehicles overtaking the HGVs suddenly pulled in and thus there was no room to join between the van/Range Rover and the HGV. The white Toyota IQ or van following could either have done this, thus leaving no room.

If so, that was not good driving by them - they should be aware that vehciles may be joining from the slip road. I never pull back in from overtaking a slower-moving vehicle in the nearside lane when passing a slip on, in fact I either make sure I can pass said vehicle before the slip road, allowing it to pull out behind me if necessary, or, depending upon the situation, let that vehicle pull out in front of me to give room to the vehicle on the slip road to filter in, or at least stay behind the vehicle in the nearside lane and back off a bit to give a vehicle room to slip in between of the one in front to slow to do the same in front.

Whilst the HGVs are, in my view, the least to blame in this incident , but they should've, as all those above, been more aware of the slip road and those on it and, if we take the OP's word about slowing tarffic (the HGVs do slow down to about 40 by the end of the slip-on) and left longer gaps in between eachother. Its often because they want to 'slipstream' to save fuel or, with cars, not allow anyone to join in front of them (especially if the person doing so owns certain makes of car).

A front-view camera would've given the definitive answer.

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 07:55
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

You will just have to take my word on it that there was a 3rd hgv and a car in front of the 2 you see on the video, and no safe gap between any of the 4.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:50
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Bromptonaut

In the old highway code it stated that you had to slow down, and join traffic without causing it to change speed or direction, stating that you even had to stop if you could not do so.

Between which years did it contain that advice? Never recall any 'slow down' suggestion in my 40years of driving. Identify a gap and regulate your speed to that of M/way the traffic then merge neatly.

Even my Dad whose driving was pretty poor knew to match speed and slip into a gap. Well remember sitting behind him and him turning in his seat to ensure over shoulder blind spot was covered - this in days before decent door/wing mirrors.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 02/03/2018 at 18:00

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 20:44
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - RichT54

I have a paper copy of the 1999 edition of the Highway Code and apart from renumbering the section titled "Joining the motorway" from rule 233 to 259 in the current online version, the only difference in the wording of the third bullet point.

1999 edition says:

  • not cross solid white lines that separate lanes

Current edition says:

  • not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder

All the other wording is identical, there is no mention of having to slow down or stop; just the same text that says "match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane".

It's not exactly "new wording" is it?

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 07:58
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

Matchint the speed may someotimes mean slowing down, hgv's are limited to speed of 52-57 mph, if there are 4 of them and a short slip road, then you have to slow down to their speed and fold in behind. which if you are used to speeding upto to 70 on the slip road, simply means you cant.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 21:27
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Finguz

In the clip there was one vehicle causing a problem, and it was the camera car.

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Fri 2 Mar 2018 22:22
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - KJP 123

I can see the problem. He could not pull out into the first available gap as it was a two lane slipway with solid white lines between and he did not want to go too fast as the slipway seemed to be ending fairly soon.

But there seemed room in front of the leading artic if he had accelerated yet he slowed down making it harder to merge. As others have said it shows poor technique.

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Sat 3 Mar 2018 17:46
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Avant

There are now two threads going on this less-than-riveting subject. In the other one Manatee said, some months ago:

"The onus is always on the joining driver. Common sense, and neither Roadcraft or the HC suggest otherwise."

It seems to me that that's all there is to be said on the subject.

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Sun 4 Mar 2018 15:37
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Sofa Spud

Gets a bit tricky on short sliproads when you decide to slow to let a driver on lane 1 pass you by at exactly the same time as they decide to brake to let you on in front of them!

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Sun 4 Mar 2018 19:30
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Engineer Andy

Speaking personally, if I'm the driver in lane 1 of the motorway, I would have far better vision of what's going on around me that anyone on the slip road, so I, as far as possible, make sure that I can either move into lane 2 or safely back off to let the vehicle from the slip road enter in front if I cannot put my foot down to let them in behind.

One thing I know no-one should do is move back to lane 1 from 2 or to 2 from 3 as you're passing the slip road - I suspect, if the OP is to be believed, that's what happened as those vehicles overtaking the HGVs moved back in when they a) didn't need to and b) is, in my opinion, dangerous as those on the slip road may not see them until its too late. Best to wait until everyone has well passed the slip on.

Not quite to the highway code, but safer I think. Having vehicles at a stop at the end of a long slip road where others at the start of the slip road (who are rapidly accelerating) cannot see them is, in my view, a recipe for disaster.

Of course, better road design by reducing the motorway to 2 lanes as it passes the junction, leaving the nearside lane for the slip off and slip on only, with signs well beforehand, would help, as long as the junction wasn't heavily used.

That is the case with the A1 junctions 8/9 going north, where the slip on from Stevenage raidly turns into the heavily used (rush hours) slip off for Letchworth, Baldock and towards me in Royston on the A505, whereby people chance their arm in lane 2 (cutting in at the last minute) because lane 1 is always busy and queueing. In that case, the problem is the poor traffic light management at the juntion 9 roundabout, giving too much priority to traffic not on the A1 slip road and the long filter left (pre-slip road) lane.

I suspect in this case a dedicated lane for the slip on and only one, but wide lane to discourage overtaking on it (dangerous in my view), but to allow it if a vehicle is broken down would be preferable. It also would help if everyone gave vehicles in front more room.

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 07:59
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

lol, isnt it amazing that mate that a simple rules causes so much diff of opinion.

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 11:53
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Bilboman

The very simple solution to all of this slip-road anxiety is "shared priority" (a larger scale "zip-merge"), whereby there is actually no slip-road as such; rather, two wider-than-usual lanes, which merge over a sufficient distance to enable both lanes of cars to see each other and gradually filter into the lane which eventually reduces to a single width. It is common to see this on motorways in Spain, where a "slip road" might emerge from the left or the right. Even the most stubborn driver realises that it is better to merge, filter in and (horror of horrors) give way to someone who might have arrived a few seconds after you than face a prang, automatically shared blame and hiked insurance premiums.

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Tue 6 Mar 2018 12:35
Idiot factor encouraged by new rukes - That old subject, slip roads - Engineer Andy

lol, isnt it amazing that mate that a simple rules causes so much diff of opinion.

I think that the discussion is polarised because the lack of a front-facing dash cam (why do you only have a rearward-facing one, BTW) means that people are making their judgements based on what they think of (and tone of) your statements, not just of this thread, but also on others, where some have been less than sympathetic with your viewpoints, plus they may also think you have something to hide given the lack of a forward-facing dashcam in favour of a rearward one.

I'm trying to be unbiased here, but it is difficult not to make inferences based on that.

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