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Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - P3t3r

A lot of people pull away in second gear in icy conditions but I really can't understand the benefit. My main reason for always using 1st gear is to avoid clutch wear, but I decided to try second gear in the recent snow. I found that it was so much harder than 1st gear. It has a tenancy to 'run away'. In 1st gear my car will usually crawl along at a steady speed and you just need one foot to control the speed.

With 2nd gear you're either trying to balance the clutch and gas pedals or the conditions aren't actually that bad and you could have pulled away normally anyway. Trying to balance clutch/gas in slippery conditions can be hard because you need to work out whether the wheels are slipping, the clutch is slipping or both.

What do people do?

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - kiss (keep it simple)

1st gear for me. You need to limit the torque you put through the wheels, so 2nd gear can help if you are a bit heavy footed. The trick is to use a very light right foot, and ease off at the first sign of slippage (revs rising suddenly or car drifting a bit to the side)

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Bromptonaut

Driving home last night was nearly all 1st/2nd using same technique as you with right foot controlling speed and brake use avoided almost completely, slush/snow in front of tyres gave enough retardation once clutch down.

I believe there's a theory that your less likely to break traction on slidy stuff by starting in second but I can't say I it's ever worked for me or that I understand the rationale.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - HGV ~ P Valentine

In first but put into 2nd quickly, using clutch control without burning out the clutch. While the wheels are rotating they are doing their job and trying to clear out the ice/snow from under the tyre.

Edited by 30 yr's a Professional Driver on 02/03/2018 at 16:47

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - RT

Why 1st or 2nd - why not 3rd or 4th?

In the days of automatics with 3-speeds plus overdrive 4th, the "Winter" programme would usually start in 3rd.

In slippery conditions you won't be getting very much torque/power down on to the road anyway.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - nellyjak

A previous Volvo V70 I had...an auto...was absolutely brilliant in snow/ice once the "W" Winter button was deployed.

Where I worked at the time, the entrance to our car park was barrier controlled..and half way up an incline. More often than not my Volvo was the only vehicle that could make it from a standing start.!

Edited by nellyjak on 02/03/2018 at 17:20

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - craig-pd130

Most modern turbodiesels with manual gearboxes are easy to get rolling from a standing start in the snow: simply releasing the clutch gently in first gear will raise the rpm slightly without having to touch the throttle (the cars' ECUs have a routine built in to protect the DMFs, activated by a switch on the clutch pedal).

You can do the same in most petrol cars if you're smooth with the clutch.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - P3t3r

Most modern turbodiesels with manual gearboxes are easy to get rolling from a standing start in the snow: simply releasing the clutch gently in first gear will raise the rpm slightly without having to touch the throttle (the cars' ECUs have a routine built in to protect the DMFs, activated by a switch on the clutch pedal).

You can do the same in most petrol cars if you're smooth with the clutch.

I often do that, even in the dry, particularly in stop-start traffic. Even with my 1.0l petrol (no turbo) it has more than enough torque without using the right foot.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - P3t3r

I wonder whether pulling away in 2nd gear was more useful with older cars, particularly when they're running a bit rough in the cold weather?

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Engineer Andy

I wonder whether pulling away in 2nd gear was more useful with older cars, particularly when they're running a bit rough in the cold weather?

My Mazda3's first gear is very fierce - despite it being only a 1.6 petrol engine, it wants to race away at the slightest increase in throttle in that gear, so I find that I get far better (usable) traction in very slippery conditions when I move off in 2nd gear (with very little difference in clutch take up than using 1st in normal conditions). You should always use the highest gear practically possible (without needing to slip the clutch all the time) in snowy conditions for this reason, changing up early as well.

Don't forget that the frictional resistance between the tyres and the snowy/icy road surface is considerably reduced, meaning that it requires less torque to get the wheel moving, and too much (in lower gears or driving normally) would easily cause wheel spin.

Traction control is useless in such conditions as well, which is why I don't have much issues in this sort of weather, as my car is a Euro-spec car (RHD) without traction or stability control - never needed either in these conditions, even with both sets of summer tyres I've used on the car.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - P3t3r

snowy conditions for this reason, changing up early as well.

This is another thing I'm not sure about. If I for example, do 15-20mph in 2nd gear, I can easily reduce (or increase) the speed gently. In 3rd gear I can't really go much slower without the car trying it push forward. With snowy icy conditions the traffic speeds tend to vary a lot, so by changing up early I spend a lot more time changing gear (and taking a hand off the wheel) and braking.

Of course, it could be that the recently conditions haven't actually been that slippery. If it was really bad then I wouldn't be doing 20mph.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Engineer Andy

snowy conditions for this reason, changing up early as well.

This is another thing I'm not sure about. If I for example, do 15-20mph in 2nd gear, I can easily reduce (or increase) the speed gently. In 3rd gear I can't really go much slower without the car trying it push forward. With snowy icy conditions the traffic speeds tend to vary a lot, so by changing up early I spend a lot more time changing gear (and taking a hand off the wheel) and braking.

Of course, it could be that the recently conditions haven't actually been that slippery. If it was really bad then I wouldn't be doing 20mph.

I think it varies from car to car, especially as regards its engine torque and gear ratios. Mine are geared more for performance, your may be less so. For example, 15mph in first gear in mine is past the 'smooth' change to second - more like me giving it a LOT of right foot. I normally, in good conditions (not pushing it), change from 1st to 2nd at around 10-12 mph, 2nd to 3rd around 20-25mph (it can do 15 in 3rd if on the flat, but it'll labour if going uphill), and 3rd to 4th around 35-40mph. The gearing seems short in my car for smooth driving, but you get used to it.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Avant

I think the starting-in-second advice came from a previous generation (1950s and 60s) when first gear was lower, to the extent that some drivers used to start in second at all times (assuming there was a 4-speed gearbox), without burning the clutch out.

I'd have thought first would be needed for most cars now.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - badbusdriver

I used to work in a Saab dealership where various staff members (apart from us lowly valeters!) would get to go to Sweden on a winter driving course where they would be shown how to drive on ice and in deep snow. I'm not 100% sure about this but i think this is where i heard about starting off in a high gear, from one of the samesman after i witnessed him driving his girlfriends car out of a car park (on a hill) in 3rd gear without any wheelspin. She had tried about 5 times to get it out herself in 1st. I have also used this method myself a couple of times where it was impossible to get moving in 1st as there is simply too much leverage on the tyres regardless of how gentle you are being with the throttle. I certainly wouldn't use this method readily due to the obvious potential for knackering the clutch, but, in my experience, it does have its uses.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Mr Carrot Cake

Interesting reading the responses in this thread. Over the last few days I've found second better. With wide summer tyres that my company pride us with you'd need the delicacy of a tooth fairy to find first a better option.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - RaineMan

I did try snow mode on my second car which was fine until I encounter a speed hump going uphill! In the end I had to roll back, turn off snow made and get a slight run at it.

Moving off in second came about as the early four speed boes were based on three speeders so that first was more of an emergency low!

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - bazza

Modern cars have an anti stall mechanism which detects the stall point and slightly compensates with raised revs. This allows even small petrol engines to launch without any throttle and trickle along almost at idle. Hence this is very useful for snowy conditions. I think the 2nd gear advice stems from the days when such technology wasn't around and it was much more difficult in 1st gear to replicate manually. I find it varies depending on the situation. Incidentally the Eco button on the Civic I have was incredibly useful as a snow mode in this weather, it castrates the throttle inputs - ideal in these conditions. Otherwise it's useless!

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

In Buxton winters, many years ago, first gear at tickover , could result in wheel spin. A heavy footed take off in the loose snow at the side of the roads, with turning lock to lock swiftly, often enabled movement. Otherwise community pushing in our cul de sac. Winter tyres were rare.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Bolt

Incidentally the Eco button on the Civic I have was incredibly useful as a snow mode in this weather, it castrates the throttle inputs - ideal in these conditions. Otherwise it's useless!

Ahh so there is a use for it, I only used it once and because it took ages to accelerate not used it since, probably the only useless button on it imo.it also made no difference to economy which is the idea of it supposedly

No one I know can pull away in second without really dragging the clutch, so they all use 1st as I do, but I remember the BMCs used to pull in 2nd without a problem

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - argybargy

"Gently, in the lowest gear the car is happy with" would be my suggestion.

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - veloceman
Just wondering how long a car can run on a full tank at tick over.
Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Bolt
Just wondering how long a car can run on a full tank at tick over.

I think that would depend on size of tank, engine size/in gear or in neutral, engine load ie electrics being used?

Snow/ice - pull away in 1st gear or 2nd gear - Car

I found my last two diesels start better off in the snow in 1st, if starting in 2nd they both sped up to quickly to 15mph where as in 1st they get uo to 5mph and are more controlable.