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Any - Automatics and flat spots - scot22

I have read of some autos, esp i x20 and Venga having 'flat spots'. What does this mean? Is it significant ?

Thanks for advice.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - badbusdriver

If a car has a naturally asperated petrol engine it wont have a lot of torque, or pulling power. A tradition torque converter automatic is quite an innefficient means of transferring the power to the road. So the combination of these two things can lead to the feeling that when you press the throttle down for a burst of acceleration nothing much happens except for a lot of extra noise!.

Is it significant?, depends on how much of a hurry you are in. If you have a car like this, you probably are not a 'press on' driver, so will be less bothered by it. But if you are a fast driver, and like to pass everyone going even slightly slower than you, i'd guess you'd find it very irritating.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - gordonbennet

My experience of petrol automatics, is that you have to be prepared to give them lots of welly in order to make good progress, but mostly to force the box to kickdown to get the revs up and the typical 16 valve engine up into its power range...no different to a gently driven manual, these modern naturally aspirated petrols need some revs or they are rather flat.

The problem with autos is that the 4 pot engines sound dreadful and strained when you get up the rev range, this is not such a problem with 6+ cylinders because they sound much nicer higher up the rev range.

Mercedes petrol engines could feel flat too, even the big 6's, but there comes a point in the timing when the upper range comes in, very similar in some ways to turbocharged engines, my ageing Merc gets to a certain point in the rev and speed range when it starts to feel like someone has just added a couple of cylinders, the higher and faster you go this increases, hence where many cars of its period would be running out of steam, those old Mercs are just getting stoked up...i have spoken to other Merc owners who describe exactly the same even with the V8's, probably other vehicles the same, i imagine BMW petrols would be..

Many people who have had turbo Diesels have become used to vehicles pulling strongly from around 1500 rpm and no point in going above 3000rpm, and going back to modern relatively small non turbo petrols they don't really come on stream till you are doing about 2500rpm, or as with Honda VTEC's till you get up to about 4000 rpm when the second valve train comes in.

I wonder if people now going back to petrol last had a petrol with 8 valves, usually less powerful in bhp form, but tended to be more tractable with higher torque from lower revs than the 16 valves units.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - scot22

Both replies very much appreciated. It has really come home to me how little I knew, and can benefit from finding out, about cars. So many factors to consider !

Any - Automatics and flat spots - John F

The problem with autos is that the 4 pot engines sound dreadful and strained when you get up the rev range......

That's not because it's an auto. It's because an auto box in 'kick-down' keeps the car in a low gear till the 'red line' before changing up, thus optimising the power delivery. To achieve the same effect with a manual box you have to watch the rev counter and change up rapidly at precisely 6250revs, or whatever. Not the sort of distraction you want when overtaking on a UK 'A' road.

Some engines make so much noise by 5000 revs they tend to make drivers change up early. This is why although a car with a manual box usually has slightly better acceleration test results than an auto, with an ordinary driver on an ordinary road the auto will probably be quicker both off the mark and overtaking.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - Octane

The flat spot can be very noticeable on a vehicle that has not been correctly run in. The conventional advice is to drive the vehicle gently for the first couple of hundred miles then gradually increase the workload up to normal usage by one thousand miles. The correct interpretation of this advice is to keep the engine spinning on a light throttle with frequent use of the gears so that the engine is gently accelerating and decelerating and never running particularly long at one speed or under a heavy load. Many drivers wrongly interpret this advice as pottering along in a tall gear and keeping the revs down. With this type of treatment the piston rings will not properly bed in to the bore but are only polished. The top ring will not provide as good a seal to compression and the bottom ring will not properly control oil splash from the sump. The correct functioning of the rings will now continue to deteriorate with accumulating miles as the oil coats the piston grooves with varnish which restricts ring movement thus increasing blow by gas into the sump and oil consumption. The flat spot is a characteristic of an engine design and is highlighted by this deterioration and in particular because blow by gases in the sump are returned and burned in the cylinders which tends to reduce the quality of the air fuel mixture.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - scot22

Thank you both - very helpful.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - Metropolis.
I actually find the older 4 speed slushboxes more responsive, as it doesn’t have to cycle through several gears each time. 2nd or 3rd are usually sufficient and will just stay there, marvellous with a big v8!
Any - Automatics and flat spots - Engineer Andy
I actually find the older 4 speed slushboxes more responsive, as it doesn’t have to cycle through several gears each time. 2nd or 3rd are usually sufficient and will just stay there, marvellous with a big v8!

Maybe, but the fuel used...ouch!

Any - Automatics and flat spots - Metropolis.

On my td5, the torque converter locks up at about 48mph (load does affects its earlier or later). Compared to the 5 speed manual R380 box, the ZF 4 speed auto actually sits at slightly lower revs at 70mph, about 2,500rpm, compared to 2750rpm for the manual. MPG is slightly lower, although how this works i'm not sure!

The most responsive auto I have ever driven has to be the Toyota Vios 2nd gen. 1.5l petrol, 4 speed auto, both engine/gearbox of the 'if it aint broke don't fix it' variety. You only have to breathe on the accelorator and it's straight into the powerband. Not fast, but no flatspots either.

Any - Automatics and flat spots - scot22

Thanks for the helpful posts. I drove a 4 gear auto in the original A class. I liked it. As with many things, the variety on offer now confuses me. I like things simple.

The ix20 and Venga both appeal - just about right size and higher seating position. Would prefer auto but wonder if manual better,safer for driving. Not unduly concerned about m.p.g.

Even someone like me who overthinks does have to make a decision when dpf needs replacing in a few months. Follow with interest other posts when people seek car buying advice.