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Yes many brands offer reduced cost servicing for older cars and Honda usually charge around £200 for the same service and MOT for cars that are 3 years plus. So this latest offer is a further 50% off.
Its now booked in. As usual the service reception staff don't understand Honda's own schedule so they didn't mention that Honda recommend brake fluid change and air and pollen filters at 6 years old. This is a bit of an omission when you've just sent a mail shot re 6 year old cars when you'd expect a bit of reasonable upselling.
Anyway I've asked for the fluid change as its only £55. I know you can get the fluid tested but that seems reasonable and the car's is a keeper (like FB I don't rate their current range, especially Civic ugly stick/turbo/EPB changes). Filter replacements however are £45 each which I reckon is £25 or more fitting charge per filter. I will buy online and slip them in myself as they are readily accessible.
Just seems odd to me that amongst generally very reasonable charges that the underlying labour cost of sticking in a couple of filters is much the same as the fluid change. No doubt they have a machine to purge the fluid quickly. Changed days from helping my dad as a kid with jam cars and bits of tubing and burred bleed nipples. But even so.......
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Interesting to me, is this, as a recent convert to the Power of Dreams.
Had to laugh at the description of my car as "reliable pensioner transport", though I can't argue with the stereotype (I might be able to if they gave it a 1.6 engine with, say, 120bhp).
Mine's five years old this year and recently serviced, so next year I'll look into this, and if its still germane I'll be giving my localish Honda dealer a call.
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Does that include VAT? Only half the 99 will be for the usual MoT checks, the rest seems expensive for a can of oil and a filter which you could easily deal with yourself. Does it really need new air filters? The UK is not a dusty country. I just brush the air filter clean with a dry paint brush - it has done 128,000m. I have never stripped off the Focus's potentially leaky bulkhead plastic to look at the 17 yr old pollen filter, which still seems to be working. Pundits will argue about brake fluid - ours is at least 10yrs old and still works fine. Modern sealed systems ensure that it keeps well and virtually never reaches boiling point.
Do let us know what your final actual bill is....any change out of 150? They will try to find other things that need doing - prepare yourself for 'corroded brake pipes'.
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I have never stripped off the Focus's potentially leaky bulkhead plastic to look at the 17 yr old pollen filter, which still seems to be working.
I think you may get a surprise if you examine the pollen filter!
I change mine yearly, as they tend to disintegrate over time. You cannot tell if it is working effectively without examination.
Edited by Doc on 10/02/2018 at 11:52
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John F yes it includes VAT.
An MoT is about £55 leaving £44 for the various checks and the oil change. I am capable of changing my own oil but its not worth it. A filter is £11 and Honda branded oil £46 so diy could cost more. To bring the cost down I could buy own label Halfords oil for £15-£20 but I'd have to do the work in the freezing cold and take the waste oil to the tip. All for saving less than £20 and losing my fsh.
I will not pay a fortune to maintain a Honda fsh but doing so for £99 is a bargain. For comparison our local indie charged us over £170 for an MOT and oil on our Corsa. I am prepared to move from Honda in the future but only if it saves me money and that looks unlikely locally.
You are probably right on the brake fluid but £55 every three years is a price I am prepared to pay to follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Sure on the one hand they've got a vested interest but on the other there is a chance that its sound advice.
Given that I will spend about £3k on fuel over the life of the £20 air filter then it only needs the filter to be marginally sub-par for it to be costing me money in fuel. So if it looks dirty I will change it every couple of years. Similarly for the pollen filter. I don't fancy all my air coming through a mucky piece of paper which is a potential breeding ground for moulds if its got damp.
I am sure that your approach to maintenance works for you and that your cars will continue to soldier on as evidence of that. But for me, so long as its just a few extra quid a year, I will stick more closely to the manufacturers advice, biased though it probably is.
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Had to laugh at the description of my car as "reliable pensioner transport", though I can't argue with the stereotype (I might be able to if they gave it a 1.6 engine with, say, 120bhp).
Also can't argue.... I live in, what could be called, a reasonably pleasant enough, small rural(ish) town that borders on the "respectable" ... and whilst parked outside the doctor's surgery yesterday was further reminded that the town seems, almost entirely, to comprise people of a certain age and who fit a certain description. A hint would be the ladies hairdressers (of which there are no shortage) get their blue rinse delivered straight from the manufacturers, three times a day, in 40 foot artics.
And you can be sure they all either drive a Jazz, or, less frequently, a Micra. And if you happen to want to get anywhere like a dentist appointment in the nearby main town and you're stuck behind one (as you often are) then you might as well go home and cancel the appointment coz you're gonna be late whatever happens.
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Interesting to me, is this, as a recent convert to the Power of Dreams.
Had to laugh at the description of my car as "reliable pensioner transport", though I can't argue with the stereotype (I might be able to if they gave it a 1.6 engine with, say, 120bhp).
Mine's five years old this year and recently serviced, so next year I'll look into this, and if its still germane I'll be giving my localish Honda dealer a call.
The new 1.5 Sport has a 130hp engine - in my view, they've gone from the car being too slow on the range-topping models to too fast (0-60 in 8.5 sec) and with the very firm-riding low profile tyres as standard. Oddly enough, the same 1.5 (N/A engine) is in the HR-V but is vastly out-performed. I might've considered getting that car if the same higher-output engine were in it.
I agree with others' sentiments that the Civic is way over-priced - its a good car, but not that good, and besides, its not exactly a 'small' family hatch any more - much bigger than the Focus, Golf, i30, Mazda3 (even in fastback form) etc, which is probably why Honda aren't bothering to import the Accord into the UK - its almost as large as the previous model Accord.
Not sure who's going to buy them - the retired types are far more likely to buy the Jazz or HR-V due to their smaller size, better visibility and ergonomics/ease of access (higher seating position) as well as more competitive price, families will likely go for either larger sized cars that attract a bigger discount (Mondeo, Mazda, Insignia etc) or upmarket (in perceived terms) to the German marques. There's quite a few Honda dealerships near me, and I don't remember seeing more than a handful of the new Civics on the road since they came out last year. Quite a few new Jazzes though. No wonder some dealerships are desperate to attract custom, even after sales on older cars.
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Last year my CRV iDtec cost £290 for the service and an additional £35 for the MOT. They changed the oil and filter and "checked" everything on their sheet. They told me how thick my brake pads were by using a dental mirror (wheels stayed on the car so no calliper pins checked and greased etc.) The screenwash bottle was full but I was still charged for topping it up.
I complained because on the invoice it detailed the incorrect oil in their breakdown but I was assured this was an admin error and the correct oil was used so who knows. This year I am getting a major service kit from cox motor supplies (Honda Dealer) for £136 and I am doing it all myself...for the first time since I was a young man. The local Honda dealers are now charging over £100 per hour for labour and the local Kia I believe is charging £140 an hour. So I fully expect them to get less work in the future.
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. The local Honda dealers are now charging over £100 per hour for labour and the local Kia I believe is charging £140 an hour. So I fully expect them to get less work in the future.
Our Local (Colchester) Kia dealer is at £140 an hour, Essex innit!
Asked about mot next month when bein serviced £50 something quid. No thanks, new service manager £39. I have a kia care package, it's £30 with that, Oh! OK. we'll match.
A friend has bought a Sandero .9 tce and is happy, and a shed load less than a venga..
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10 years ago Honda sold 120,000 Civics and 70,000 CR-Vs in Europe.
In 2017 they sold about 40,000 Civics and 34000 CR-Vs.
Overall in 2007 they sold 311801 cars in Europe. Last year they sold 140430. That's not because of Brexit but because their cars are not very popular.
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10 years ago Honda sold 120,000 Civics and 70,000 CR-Vs in Europe.
In 2017 they sold about 40,000 Civics and 34000 CR-Vs.
Overall in 2007 they sold 311801 cars in Europe. Last year they sold 140430. That's not because of Brexit but because their cars are not very popular.
They seem to have similar problems selling cars elsewhere - over on John Cadogan's YT page, he is often scathing of them for effectively 'sitting back' since the late 90s/early 2000s thinking their VTEC engined cars would just sell themselves - and I agree, they've been way too safe when the rest of the market has moved on, especially in terms of value for money (KIA/Hyundai especially) and handling, performance, mpg and styling. In Australia, Kia/Hyundai have jumped right up the rankings; even Mazda (who in the UK have suffered a large drop in sales since their peak in the mid 2000s) are selling more cars (including 'utes') there than them, and for that matter, than in the UK (it also helps that they aren't subject to the EU's draconian CO2 average emmisions rules and so sell many of their range with a very nice 2.5 ltr N/A petrol engine). Honda, and to some extent, Toyota (stagnating sales levels there) seem to be struggling in the face of improving competitors who innovate.
Sadly, I think their re-entry into Formula 1 and poor showing is a symptom of their, in my view, lack of innovation for a number of years. Anyone remember the last time a news story came up saying that Honda had come up with a 'world first' or at least a brilliant idea in automotive engineering? I don't recall anything much since the Jazz and Civic Type R came out that anyone was genuinely impressed with something really new from them or that became a market leader in design or technology.
Yes, the latest Jazz and Civic are fine cars, very reliable and long-lasting, but not spectacular, and, VERY expensive when compared to most of their rivals.
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Interesting to me, is this, as a recent convert to the Power of Dreams.
Had to laugh at the description of my car as "reliable pensioner transport", though I can't argue with the stereotype (I might be able to if they gave it a 1.6 engine with, say, 120bhp).
Mine's five years old this year and recently serviced, so next year I'll look into this, and if its still germane I'll be giving my localish Honda dealer a call.
The new 1.5 Sport has a 130hp engine - in my view, they've gone from the car being too slow on the range-topping models to too fast (0-60 in 8.5 sec) and with the very firm-riding low profile tyres as standard. Oddly enough, the same 1.5 (N/A engine) is in the HR-V but is vastly out-performed. I might've considered getting that car if the same higher-output engine were in it.
(Snipped)
Just had a look at the Autocar road test for the new Jazz with that 1.5 engine. Not exactly glowing about Honda's attempt to court younger drivers with a more sporty car, both in terms of exterior and a more powerful engine. However, if in 3 or 4 years I'm in a position to upgrade mine to a used model of the above, I think I'd be willing to give it a shot. More power along with all that space, decent visibility and practicality would be the ideal combination for me, even though by that time I'll be a genuine pensioner and probably peering over the wheel from under my flat cap like Mr Magoo.
Edit: it is good to hear about the six speed gearbox option in the new Jazz. My B Max (six speed auto) maintained legal motorway speed at just under 3000 revs, whereas at 70 this five speed Jazz is working over 3k and making lots of noise. However on the positive side, it still appears to be returning much better MPG than the Ford.
Edited by argybargy on 10/02/2018 at 14:06
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Edit: it is good to hear about the six speed gearbox option in the new Jazz. My B Max (six speed auto) maintained legal motorway speed at just under 3000 revs, whereas at 70 this five speed Jazz is working over 3k and making lots of noise. However on the positive side, it still appears to be returning much better MPG than the Ford.
I presumte the six speed gearbox means an overdirve gear. I helped my sister buy a 2011 Jazz 1.4 which is a great car except it's a bit on the revvy side on a motorway at about 3400 revs @ 70mph. Still economical though.
I'm used to 2400rpm @ 70mph on my 1.4tsi Skoda Superb
However the Jazz is a great design for a small car. Lots of comfortable passenger space and those magic seats are - er magic!!
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Honda (and Honda GB in particular) have had a death wish for years. SWMBO had one of the first Jazzes in 2002, and we found exactly the same thing as people are saying above - it was too low-geared and much less relaxed at motorway speeds than the little Ford Ka which preceded it.
It's taken SIXTEEN years for them to offer the bigger engine and 6-speed gearbox in the UK that the Jazz needs, even though they've been available in other countries for years. And now you can have it only with sporty trim and rubber-band tyres - aimed at ton-up grannies no doubt. Why on earth not offer the 1.5 engine with the existing trims?
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>>It's taken SIXTEEN years for them to offer the bigger engine and 6-speed gearbox in the UK that the Jazz needs,
Ludicrous - when Jazzi were built @ Swindon they put the i-shift automated manual gearbox into the car - a disaster!! At exactly the same time they were making 1.5s with real autoboxes & exporting them to South Africa (&other limited markets). In Japan at the same time 1.5 Jazzi could be bought with 4wd & proper autos.
The Honda dealer I spoke to in October querying arrival of the new CRV, he said he could double his sales with a few modifications on the models -
Jazz with 1.5 engine - dropping 1.3 except on entry models - better performance & little effect on mpg.
HRV with the 1 litre turbo engine from the Civic & 4wd as an option
Civic needs to be £2k at least off list to get people to come over the door to look at it Lease cost too high per month in comparison to other makes as a result of higher price threshold.
Desparate for the CRV but it will be late summer 2018 before cars arrive - all North American CRV production is selling out & UK cars will come from Canada... hence delays to produce RHD when factories are flat out.
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agree with others
\Hondas are simply far too expensive and the design is not as clever as it use to be.
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Edit: it is good to hear about the six speed gearbox option in the new Jazz. My B Max (six speed auto) maintained legal motorway speed at just under 3000 revs, whereas at 70 this five speed Jazz is working over 3k and making lots of noise. However on the positive side, it still appears to be returning much better MPG than the Ford.
I presumte the six speed gearbox means an overdirve gear. I helped my sister buy a 2011 Jazz 1.4 which is a great car except it's a bit on the revvy side on a motorway at about 3400 revs @ 70mph. Still economical though.
I'm used to 2400rpm @ 70mph on my 1.4tsi Skoda Superb
However the Jazz is a great design for a small car. Lots of comfortable passenger space and those magic seats are - er magic!!
Yes, I'd agree with the "revvy" bit.
Its noisy at anything over 65mph, which is disappointing for a car which generally feels really well put together. FIrst time I lifted the bonnet I was really surprised at how small the engine is too: physically small, not just small capacity wise. No doubt a pain to work on too given that so many rear components cannot be accessed without removing the windscreen scuttle, and that at the front there's really no room at all.
However yes, the practicality makes for an amazingly spacious small car, and I really do marvel at how much legroom there is in the back despite the Jazz having a much bigger boot than the B Max.
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Took my Ford Mondeo into my local Ford Main Dealer a few years ago for one of their heavily advertised "Motorcraft Services" which were being offered for Ford cars, I believe over four years old, at a discounted rate.
During the service they called me with the recommendation that I should have various additional works carried out to a total cost of about £800! I told them to just do the service!
After I'd got the car back and looked at what had actually been done I discovered they'd missed out several items as compared to the manufacturers published service recommendations for my vehicle. They even managed, as far as I was concerned, to put the wrong oil into it!
So, needless to say, I never went back. The "Motorcraft Service" was just a con, as far as I was concerned. You were led to believe you were getting the service for a bargain price but, in actual fact, you were not.
I did subsequently have some of the Ford Main Dealer's recommended work carried out, but not by them, and for a fraction of their quoted cost.
I would, therefore, be very wary of any Main Dealer low cost services that you may see offered - They are low cost for a reason!
Edited by Galaxy on 11/02/2018 at 11:46
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>> would, therefore, be very wary of any Main Dealer low cost services that you may see offered
Car at Honda dealer to investigate a light on dashboard. £50+vat he put it out.
List of recommended work need on a 90K 5 year old car came to £2,000+ Car's value was £3,000 tops
New condenser for AC, new suspension bits & pieces, 2 tyres, new rheostat for fan, .............the list went on & on. Took it to Indie who said rheostat & 2 tyres in a few thousand miles & charge the AC..
Complained to the dealer Principal who denied any overstating issues. Complained to Honda who put car into ANOther franchise - rheostat, charge AC needed.
My local Honda closed a few years later - maybe others suffered similar attacks on their wallet.
& like me, bought their next Honda elsewhere.
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The local Honda dealer sent my daughters typeR (yes the last one circa 300hp) back afrer brake recall work needing the brakes to be pumped to work effectively, my son picked the car up, they tried bullshine fobbing him off but he quickly explained things very clearly to them and the job was put right, no he didn't use them for servicing his own Honda and nor did this episode change his mind...nor will my daughter be using them when she has the car back from him, because said dealer is no longer Honda.
Edited by gordonbennet on 11/02/2018 at 13:45
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"Yes, I'd agree with the "revvy" bit."
You bought the wrong version.
My 2012 Jazz with 7 speed CVT does 2200rpm at 70mph...
Honda's engineering is very very conservative.. split pinned balljoints in teh suspension. Toyota and teh rest of teh world use self locking nuts. Pointless.
Honda are known to despise other engineering companies and are full of NIH attitudes (Not Invented Here).
But teh UK is a small market for them and it is openly run for Profit and NOT for volume - eventually they will end up like Subaru in the UK - 3,000 sales per year...20% or lower of their peak sales.
Both Subaru and Honda can sell all they can make in the US...
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>>Both Subaru and Honda can sell all they can make in the US...
Subaru USA sell more in a couple of days than UK sells in ayear
Honda have a vast range of models in the USA - many with BIG petrol engines
Honda in Japan have a large rage of smaller cars - 660cc/turbo - some could
sell in the UK BUT would they make a profit? That is the problem.
However, if we had USA levels of pricing in the UK both Subaru & Honda would sell a lot more in the UK.
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After Brexit, if the EU are stupid enough to try and punish probably their best customer to teach them a lesson....oh and Avant we need a facepalm smiley because sometimes only one of those will do.
Then once WTO rules apply if that is the case, those Japanese built carsalready RHD won't be quite so overpriced as currently , and all sorts of changes are possible.
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However, if we had USA levels of pricing in the UK both Subaru & Honda would sell a lot more in the UK....................
Agree, but also the UK car market is very different, US consumers are very intolerant of quality niggles and poor customer service, shunning even the big 3 for the Japanese and Korean makes. Apart from the F150 truck which is a best seller for more cultural and traditional reasons. European car marques are regarded as very much a specialist taste, VAGs and JLR's reputation over there is dire, whereas over here we still believe we're buying into something of higher quality. But I would love to have access to some of the Far East offerings on the market over there, such as the Camry/Accord/ Lexus variants. But as has been said, we are not a priority for the Japanese and Korean manufacturers, the US, Far East and China is where the markets are.
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"Yes, I'd agree with the "revvy" bit."
You bought the wrong version.
My 2012 Jazz with 7 speed CVT does 2200rpm at 70mph...
Honda's engineering is very very conservative.. split pinned balljoints in teh suspension. Toyota and teh rest of teh world use self locking nuts. Pointless.
Honda are known to despise other engineering companies and are full of NIH attitudes (Not Invented Here).
But teh UK is a small market for them and it is openly run for Profit and NOT for volume - eventually they will end up like Subaru in the UK - 3,000 sales per year...20% or lower of their peak sales.
Both Subaru and Honda can sell all they can make in the US...
Well, I test drove just one low mileage CVT and to be honest, although the gear changes were virtually imperceptible, performance was as flat as a fluke. It was expensive (£7495 for a 63 plate car with about 25k miles) and worst of all, had no history and had belonged to a hire company.
For reasons already gone into on here it was the auto that we would have preferred, but they just weren't to be found at the right price and mileage when we were looking. I didn't feel as relaxed as I might have done about waiting for the right car to come along, what with the B Max approaching the end of its Ford gearbox warranty, so when this manual came into view with full dealer history and 13k miles, we (or rather I) jumped at it.
It'll do for a couple of years while I save up for a six speed Mk 3 with the 1.5 engine. ;0)
Edited by argybargy on 11/02/2018 at 17:04
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Honda are still in the Top ten car makers in the world with sales of 5236842.
This places them at No6. But whereas they only make hondas and acura, Renault Nissan have loads of brands including Dacia and Lada.
May prove Carlos Gosmn s theory that cheap cars do sell, even without wind up windows.
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