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To be fair to CK, I don't see this as a particularly unwelcome intervention if it stimulates debate rather than acrimony.
Diesels are going through a bad patch right now. I've seen numerous posts on this forum which, although expressed in varying ways, have featured the sentiment "I wouldn't normally consider a diesel...but".
At one time diesels were the saviours of our planet, and now they're not. It'll take a little time for the brand to regain public trust, if indeed there are years enough for that to happen before electric cars become the norm.
And (edit) as SLO says above, they are impossibly complex compared to their ancestors. I was counselled against diesels a few years back, before the emissions data scandals, when someone in the trade warned me of the cost of replacing the various bits and pieces that could fail under the bonnet of a modern Astra turbo diesel.
Meantime sales must surely be down.
Edited by argybargy on 23/01/2018 at 09:18
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Interesting stats but they're based on a warranty company's figures, presumably for those repairs it has paid out on. The numbers tell us something but there are a lot of caveats and probable distortions for small sample size with at least some marques.
The fact that it's reported by the Daily Mail adds another layer of innacuracy too.
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I was counselled against diesels a few years back, before the emissions data scandals, when someone in the trade warned me of the cost of replacing the various bits and pieces that could fail under the bonnet of a modern Astra turbo diesel.
My Pug 207SW diesel has just passed its 10th birthday - it came off the line in January 2008 - and in the 9 years I have owned it, I have spent nothing on fixes except normal servicing, brakes and tyres (you are probably tired of hearing this). But when I bought it I asked the salesman about DPFs (at the time the 110 had one, the 90 not) and he said I was better off without one. Presumably since then everything has got more complicated.
Overcomplexity is usually a bad idea, for almost anything.
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The Diesel problems are mixed and this misleading click bait article hasn't helped...though it should help canny buyers pick up their well chosen Diesels even cheaper.
The right Diesels bought with sensible use in mind, maintained properly (giving the maker's typical service schedule a good ignoring) and driven with some mechanical sympathy, can and will last just as long as they once did.
There are makes to avoid, and Diesel engines to avoid, but then there are petrol engines to avoid too.
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Aside from taking that article with a huge pinch of salt, I'd love to know more about the failures and what caused them.
I'm astounded at the number of diesel owners who don't know about local driving, DPFs, additive (and drive the car without any), or the turbo idling rule.
I've owned diesels for many years and aside from wear and tear items, never needed to do anything aside from get the injectors cleaned on one car.
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Diesel engine is more complex, suffers from more stress and vibration hence more expensive to buy. There are more things to go wrong (compared to petrol) and hence less reliable.
Diesel's only advantage is better mileage - so for people doing 20k miles for more diesel probably still makes sense.
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One thing about old CK...they may complain every time he posts something, but he gets us talking.
Good effort, CK. ;0)
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One thing about old CK...they may complain every time he posts something, but he gets us talking.
Good effort, CK. ;0)
IMHO - Don't feed the troll - in my view, his main aim is still to diss Kia, even if it is tangentially. Its not as though this subject hasn't been discussed in other threads before...plus he doesn't ever seem to give any 'positive' advice - just 'this is rubbish', 'don't buy that' (especially Kias), etc without much in the way of evidence, as others have said above, plus he rarely, if ever, responds to questions or (including polite) criticisms about his posts. I'm more wary of newer members taking his comments for more than they are.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 23/01/2018 at 14:28
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One thing about old CK...they may complain every time he posts something, but he gets us talking.
Good effort, CK. ;0)
IMHO - Don't feed the troll - in my view, his main aim is still to diss Kia, even if it is tangentially. Its not as though this subject hasn't been discussed in other threads before...plus he doesn't ever seem to give any 'positive' advice - just 'this is rubbish', 'don't buy that' (especially Kias), etc without much in the way of evidence, as others have said above, plus he rarely, if ever, responds to questions or (including polite) criticisms about his posts. I'm more wary of newer members taking his comments for more than they are.
With respect, Andy, if the forum operated a rule that we were only allowed one opportunity to discuss each motoring related topic, we'd soon run out of stuff to talk about.
And he's not the only one who sometimes lacks constructive views on those topics. Being relatively short of motoring knowledge I tend to respond to OPs with anecdotes rather than advice.
Maybe I'm a troll too.;0)
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One thing about old CK...they may complain every time he posts something, but he gets us talking.
Good effort, CK. ;0)
IMHO - Don't feed the troll - in my view, his main aim is still to diss Kia, even if it is tangentially. Its not as though this subject hasn't been discussed in other threads before...plus he doesn't ever seem to give any 'positive' advice - just 'this is rubbish', 'don't buy that' (especially Kias), etc without much in the way of evidence, as others have said above, plus he rarely, if ever, responds to questions or (including polite) criticisms about his posts. I'm more wary of newer members taking his comments for more than they are.
With respect, Andy, if the forum operated a rule that we were only allowed one opportunity to discuss each motoring related topic, we'd soon run out of stuff to talk about.
And he's not the only one who sometimes lacks constructive views on those topics. Being relatively short of motoring knowledge I tend to respond to OPs with anecdotes rather than advice.
Maybe I'm a troll too.;0)
I never said we should operate such a rule, however, as other members have commented here, and yes, in their view (as well as mine), I think we should be wary of CK's motives as to starting and participating is discussions, given previous experience. Giving anecdotes is fine, as long as say that's what they are - a personal experience. Pretending they apply to an entire manufacturer or cars with certain types of engines is another thing entirely, hence my concerns.
Tabloids like the Daily Mail (even the Telegraph isn't what it used to be, especially in the Motoring Section, HJ's collumn excepted) isn't in my view exactly the best source for high quality journalism on such matters, especially as the survey quoted does not seem to take into account the type of usage the cars get (as others have said in this thread, and, it must be said, many times before in other threads, including ones active now) as well as servicing. Personally speaking, I don't think posting the article brings anything new to the discussion. You may disagree. Fair enough.
Have a great evening, and no, you're not a troll.
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"I never said we should operate such a rule, however, as other members have commented here, and yes, in their view (as well as mine), I think we should be wary of CK's motives as to starting and participating is discussions, given previous experience. Giving anecdotes is fine, as long as say that's what they are - a personal experience. Pretending they apply to an entire manufacturer or cars with certain types of engines is another thing entirely, hence my concerns.
Tabloids like the Daily Mail (even the Telegraph isn't what it used to be, especially in the Motoring Section, HJ's collumn excepted) isn't in my view exactly the best source for high quality journalism on such matters, especially as the survey quoted does not seem to take into account the type of usage the cars get (as others have said in this thread, and, it must be said, many times before in other threads, including ones active now) as well as servicing. Personally speaking, I don't think posting the article brings anything new to the discussion. You may disagree. Fair enough.
Have a great evening, and no, you're not a troll."
Thanks for that, and especially for being so kind about genuine anecdotal contributions.
We do disagree on this to some extent, and the reason for that disagreement is something you've already touched upon yourself. Its easy to ignore any poster if you don't think they contribute in a constructive way. My problem concerns the number of times that someone writes a long post condemning somebody else for contributing nothing, and by doing so achieves exactly the same feat: contributing nothing. But I'm not admin here, so have no power to change anything, only to comment on it. And look, by writing this I just contributed nothing.
I hope you had a great evening also, and for the record I enjoy your articulate and invariably fact and experience-based contributions.
Edited by argybargy on 23/01/2018 at 23:11
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Aside from taking that article with a huge pinch of salt, I'd love to know more about the failures and what caused them.
I'm astounded at the number of diesel owners who don't know about local driving, DPFs, additive (and drive the car without any), or the turbo idling rule.
I've owned diesels for many years and aside from wear and tear items, never needed to do anything aside from get the injectors cleaned on one car.
That's a large part of the problem. There is a certain way to drive and treat a modern diesel and I doubt a large part of the population has ever been told how or wants to know. If you have a shred of motoring sympathy and understanding of what is good for them you will be able to make one last well, notwithstanding those nasty little details like fine gauze filters in the oil feed pipe slowly killing the turbo on the DV6 engine, how the average bod is supposed to know without detailed research is anyones guess.
If I'm stopping and starting down a busy dog eat dog road with the window open, you can hear the abuse that drivers are giving the whole drivetrain.
I can understand how many people here would want to buy one as new as possible to avoid all this mistreatment.
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