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Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - the_bandit

The marketing departments would tell us that the extra additives in super unleaded can help to clean valve stems but would it be fair to say it's not much use for engines that use direct injection into the cylinder?

What benefit is left then to using a higher octane fuel?

Does a higher octane fuel, on average, generate less carbon once burned?

Thanks.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Tester

I asked this question of Honest John recently, when I bought a petrol direct-injection car. His view was that yes, you get a cleaner burn from the likes of Shell VPower and BP Ultimate, so that will help to keep valve seatings and stems clean. I'm fairly sure (though ready to be corrected) that Shell uses some gas-to-liquid (GTL) in VPower, which I'd certainly expect to be clean burning. Don't know about BP.

Given the relatively small price premium for these petrols (when compared with other motoring costs), good experience with VPower diesel in my previous car, and my intention to keep this new one for a long time, I am quite happy to carry on using VPower/Ultimate.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Engineer Andy

I asked this question of Honest John recently, when I bought a petrol direct-injection car. His view was that yes, you get a cleaner burn from the likes of Shell VPower and BP Ultimate, so that will help to keep valve seatings and stems clean. I'm fairly sure (though ready to be corrected) that Shell uses some gas-to-liquid (GTL) in VPower, which I'd certainly expect to be clean burning. Don't know about BP.

Given the relatively small price premium for these petrols (when compared with other motoring costs), good experience with VPower diesel in my previous car, and my intention to keep this new one for a long time, I am quite happy to carry on using VPower/Ultimate.

I've been 'testing' the use of superunleaded (V-Power) for 4 fill-ups on my (nearly) 12 year-old (though only 63k miles) Mazda3 1.6 petrol (N/A), and noticed a slightly better (smoother) pick up as time has passed, but only a 3-5% increase in mpg (being used in the same way as before in the same conditions as previous years), despite the fuel costing about 8-10% more (only 5% more if I bought it at supermarket filling stations, but that doesn't have the 'cleaning' additives). I might see better performance in the same rate and no increase in mpg if I gave it more right foot, but I'm not sure, as I haven't been able to find out whether my car has a knock sensor.

I've also tried out Redex, and given it appears to achieved a similar result at a far lower cost (injector cleaning mainly - I'm fortunate that I don't drive short journeys that will significantly increase carbon deposits on the valves etc): essentially £5 (I got it on offer, normally £8.50) for a four-shot (one per full fill up of fuel) bottle of the stuff as opposed to £20 for the extra fuel over the four fill-ups in total.

I think if anyone does lots of short trips where the car doesn't use the full range of revs and gears and/or isn't fully warmed up (e.g. trips to the local school/shops of a mile or two/5 mins), then I would use superunleaded with the additives once in a while (say 3-4 fill-ups before the service/MOT or long [important] trips such as holidays), but not all the time, and to be honest most reviews of Redex seem to be positive, though mainly at reducing clogged fuel injector nozzles only.

Both help more on my car as its a non-GDI engine, and I suspect, like with diesels with DPFs, taking a GDI petrol-engined car for a long drive at motorway speeds, coupled with an occasional 'Italian tune-up' (only once fully wamred up) is probably just as beneficial. For my car, I'll probably use the bottle of Redex once a year coupled with an occasional 'Italian tune-up'.

I'm not trying to advertise either BTW - just giving an opinion based on my personal experiences - I'm sure all the similar products give relatively similar results (read reviews on the sites that sell them and here for the fuels).

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - craig-pd130

With petrol cars, the use of super unleaded will only benefiit performance and power/torque output if the car's ECU is capable of advancing the ignition timing and (if it's turbocharged) upping the boost pressure to take fullest advantage of the high octane.

Some turbo petrols can do this, and some dyno tests have shown an measurable increase in power (i.e. an extra 5% or so) in tiurbo petrols when using super compared with standard unleaded. Depends what it says in the car's manual. We're lucky in the UK that the lowest octane fuel available is 95: in some European markets, the standard stuff is 91.

A higher octane fuel won't create less carbon, but it may have a stronger detergent additive to help clean up the carbon that is created.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - the_bandit

Thanks for replies.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - edlithgow

Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) is reportedly an issue with some boosted direct injection engines, and can cause serious engine damage,

Higher octane fuel may confer greater reistance to pre-ignition, though octane is defined in terms of detonation..

Pre-ignition can initiate detonation, and higher octane fuel can be expected to reduce the chance of that happening.,

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Kekettykek

I'm surprised LSPI hasn't been mentioned more on this forum or by HJ himself, as all manufacturers of GDI engines are experiencing the problem, and the strange thing is that they still don't fully understand the causes. New oil formulas have gone some way to mitigating LSPI, but the problem still exists.

Driving style is probably the biggest influence. Driving with a wide throttle at low RPM/high load situation isn't good for any engine, but for GDI engines it's a very bad idea and it only takes one severe LSPI event to cause terminal damage.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Big John

I'm surprised LSPI hasn't been mentioned more on this forum or by HJ himself, as all manufacturers of GDI engines are experiencing the problem

It's not just GDI engines, arny modern engine with a high compression ratio are prone to this and ones with super lightweight/shallow pistons are more prone to damage I try to fill up with higher octane petrol with most of my fleet. On my tsi you never hear pre-ignition when driving with the windows up as the car is too well soundproofed, but i heard it in France when I was forced to fill up with 95RON petrol and drove up a steep hill at lowish speed afterwards and had my windows down.

My older Octavia 1.416v which has port injection and no turbo is also prone to this - and has been from new. This engine type had reports of failing pistons at low mileages (on this forum and others) - mine has generally had a diet of high octane petrol from new and is still going strong at nearly 17 years old and 125k miles.

IE where possible I fill up with higher octane petrol

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - craig-pd130

My current car (BMW 225xe) has the 3-cylinder turbo petrol that's also used in Mini Coopers, in a slightly different state of tune.

The owner's manual states that any fuel higher than 91 octane can be used, even high-ethanol E85, but that 'premium fuel of 95 octane is recommended'.

This highlights the fact that manufacturers have to make their cars to run on a range of fuels, depending on the market they're sold in. In the UK, we get high-octane fuel as standard compared with some countries.

Edited by craig-pd130 on 24/12/2017 at 09:03

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - RT

Within the EU there's a standard for petrol, EN228, and one for diesel, EN590, but they're minimums - Type-Approved vehicles must run satisfactorily on minimum standard fuel but car makers can, and do, optimise the engine for a higher octane in the case of petrol.

AFAIK, UK petrol is about mid-range.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - the_bandit

OK, so all of these comments could well be making it clearer why my user manual suggests using 'premium' fuel when fully loaded or towing. They omit to mention why!!

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - hardway

Well I must be the only one!

It smells so much better!!

Reminds me of when I was a kid and splashed out on a tank of 5 star (google it youngsters)

Totaly wasted in the bike of the day

Japanese two stroke if anyone is interested.

With a leaky filler cap seal,

just enough to let it fume in the garage overnight so when I opened the doors on probably a morning like most are getting now the cold air mixed with a hint of 5 star was bliss.

Ahh memories,ever diesel smelt different,

not in a good way either......

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Charlie Croker

A while back BP were doing 102 RON at a handful of stations, coincidently 2 of them were near me in Milton Keynes - aimed at track day and Scooby boys…

Bit off topic but it did allow me to adjust the turbo boost up to 16psi on my old GPZ 750 without detonation J

I think they only trialled it for a year or 2 then scrapped the idea :-(

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/bp-launches-uk...l

Edited by Charlie Croker on 28/12/2017 at 12:48

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - thunderbird

OK, so all of these comments could well be making it clearer why my user manual suggests using 'premium' fuel when fully loaded or towing. They omit to mention why!!

Premium fuel in the UK is 95 RON. So if they recommend premium fuel all you need is the normal stuff available anywhere. Any benefits that super unleaded may have would never be utilised.

Benefit of super unleaded in direct injection? - Manatee

DI's are associated with 'varnish' in the inlet tract which presumably comes from recirculated crankcase gases or exhaust, that in single point or port-inhection engines would be washed away by fuel vapour. It's not clear how or if 'better' fuel could help with that on a DI engine - although the exhaust gas might be a bit cleaner if the combustion is better.

However it might well benefit injectors. These are typically multi-hole, multi-injection these days and keeping them clean might be of benefit, Similarly the exhaust valves and EGR through more complete combustion.

That argument rests on more supposedly better detergent properties, than on octane rating.