The early Jazz s up to 2006 were built in Japan, then uk supplies came from China and then from about 2010 UK production started . But the MK 3 is as I understand built again in Japan. But is there any difference in build quality based on their country of origin ?
The Mark 3 is made in Mexico and exported to US and Europe.
UK production quality appears to equate to Japanese based on reliability figures.
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Revisiting this because I've identified a suitable car, at the right price, and we're going to have a look at it tomorrow. Its about an hour's drive from here.
The car is a 63 plate Honda Jazz 1.4 i VTEC ES Plus 5 door, in silver, with just 10k on the clock and priced at £7k. Its a manual, so the wife and I have had a conversation about whether she'll be back to enduring regular "whiplash" whenever I change gear, but I'm hoping that was just a quirk of our old Focus caused by a bad clutch replacement. There was an audible clunk and a discernable "jerk" each time I changed gear towards the end of our ownership.
Anyhow, although earlier responses were very helpful, I'd be very grateful if someone could give me a shortlist of pointers when checking and test driving the car.
With just 10k on the clock I can't imagine there will be too many issues, but best be prepared just in case.
Thanks again.
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Tyre wear - uneven front.
Front electric mirrors. Make sure they work without strange noises.
Spare wheel? Normally none - goo and electric pump.. check they are present and tools in boot.
Wiper baldes at never used/ stage.
Alloys for gouges/parling damage.
Usual other checks... When was it serviced - should be 5 stamps in book,
Try driving over rough roads/speed humps..
Magic seats work.. And manuals present.
Edited by madf on 30/12/2017 at 15:39
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Revisiting this because I've identified a suitable car, at the right price, and we're going to have a look at it tomorrow. Its about an hour's drive from here.
The car is a 63 plate Honda Jazz 1.4 i VTEC ES Plus 5 door, in silver, with just 10k on the clock and priced at £7k. Its a manual, so the wife and I have had a conversation about whether she'll be back to enduring regular "whiplash" whenever I change gear, but I'm hoping that was just a quirk of our old Focus caused by a bad clutch replacement. There was an audible clunk and a discernable "jerk" each time I changed gear towards the end of our ownership.
Anyhow, although earlier responses were very helpful, I'd be very grateful if someone could give me a shortlist of pointers when checking and test driving the car.
With just 10k on the clock I can't imagine there will be too many issues, but best be prepared just in case.
Thanks again.
Hi
4 years old averaging 2500 miles a year. Very low mileage. Possibly only being driven to the shops and back. However, in it's favour, it's not a Turbo engine.
Given the apparent usage pattern. Check for poorly repaired parking damage (Check bumper fit and gaps). Check wheels/ tyres for kerbing. Check the clutch feels ok and not slipping or juddering.
Check the MOT history online before you go, for any issues. The car should have had it's 2nd MOT or it will be due very shortly. If it's from a garage, ensure it's had it's 2nd MOT before you pick it up (if buying).
It would be helpful if you post a link to the advert.
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Also make sure its not missed any services!
Edit: Sorry Just noticed madf posted this.
Edited by FiestaOwner on 30/12/2017 at 16:43
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Thanks very much to you both.
Checked the MOT history and it shows first time passes in both 2016 and '17, so thats all OK.
As you suggest, the mileage indicates use being limited to daily local shopping trips, but this would be rectified pretty quickly if we bought it because we have a few long journeys to rellies lined up for next year (notwithstanding its virtues or otherwise as a motorway cruiser).
Many thanks for taking the time to share your expertise; I've made a list from your suggestions and will be checking it at least twice.
Will report back after seeing and driving it in the metal!
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171218213...1
Edited by argybargy on 30/12/2017 at 17:03
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Not seeing anything concerning in the advert.
Do check that it has both keys.
Think the spare wheel (spacesaver?) has been added by the last owner. Don't see anything fixing the spare wheel to the boot floor. Also the jack is just sitting there. Perhaps the fixing kit is there and no one has figured it out!
Let us know how your test drive goes.
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I hope it's the one for you when you get there. Obviously you'll come away if you spot something your unsure or unhappy about ... or, at least, practise your haggling skills.
As others will have said it probably pays to go in looking a tad nonchalent and avoid sounding too keen. Being a miserable old sod myself that's not a problem. But if you spot a flaw or something that's not to your liking I wouldn't be backward in pointing it out as soon as you see it. Maybe even have a scrap of paper and a pencil to hand to jot things down (a clipboard might be OTT but hey ho) .... doesn't matter if the sales fella sees you making notes. Maybe even a few photos of specific items or aspects of the car that catch your eye?
I would, almost certainly, go in expecting not to trust the sales person and asking (sensible) questions to see how much he actually knows about cars generally, and this one in particular, and you may well find you know as much, if not more, than he does. Certainly wouldn't be the first time - and wouldn't be the last either.
I, personally, would go in expecting that they're trying to sell me dud and regard it as my job to find out what's wrong with it... and if it turns out it's not a dud, then so much the better.
Ask who the previous owner(s) was(were) - ask if they'll let you contact the previous owner. Ask to see the V5 as well as the service and MOT papers. Consider an RAC inspection and see what the dealer says when you mention it. Why are they selling it? You might not find out the real reason but you might learn something by the way they answer the question.
Are the tyres to your liking and how much is that particular size if they're not. Some sozes are a lot dearer than others.
Ask about the warranty and how they would deal with an issue if one arose.
I had a Jazz and sold it (to a dealer as it happens- he responded to my private advert and travelled by train to collect it having only had my word for it's condition etc) ... I wish I'd not sold it - it was faultless ... you might be buying a similar car being sold by someone with nothing to hide - I had nothing to hide and, like I say the bloke got a genuine buy.... you might get the same. But if it's doubtful, walk away and get a different one - they're not rare.
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That Jazz is at Arnold Clark, he'll have to try hard to appear more nonchalent than the sales staff to be honest!
I don't expect the sales guy to be up to speed on this Jazz, he's there to shift units, not to tell customers the differences between the ES+ and EX spec cars...
That car has the expensively sized tyres, (185/55/16) you'll be looking at around £100 for a decent Michelin tyre. My wife has a Jazz with these wheels and I'm amazed they fitted such an uncommon size tyre.
My wife's Jazz has the spare tyre, it should be secured by a bolt and a cup washer through the centre hole into the wheel-well floor. The jack should be secured to the aft bulk-head (basically behind the rear bumper) with the tools in the blue bag shown.
My wife's Jazz has been 100% reliable for the 4 years we've had it. It's not that refined at speed but we're struggling to replace it presently...
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Cheers again.
The space saver was added by the previous owner, so the salesman told me, at a significant cost. I see what you mean about the tyres, and I might have to forego my usual preference for Michelins, though with the current mileage at just 10k the original tyres should have tread left.
The salesman sent me a personalised video and to be honest, he sounded on the phone like a decent bloke. OK, its his job to get my trust and then (if I prove dumb enough) to take me for a ride, but I'm not SO desperate that I'll buy the car even if it isn't what we want.I've already made one expensive error in the last few months and I certainly have no intention of making another one. However, its exactly the age, spec and price I've been looking for, so a good starting point in a car search at the very least.
The standard warranty is just 60 days, and given the distance from my home to the garage I'd probably be best taking an after market warranty unless they throw in something longer to sweeten the deal. We'll have to see how well I can do "nonchalant"
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Have to say I know nothing about Arnold Clark other than what others say about them .... I just edited my reply coz the fact is I don't know for a fact that their service is of a particular standard that might make me think twice about going there. (And if that's still not acceptable then Avant will delete it).
Sixty days warranty sounds, to me, like the sort of thing they would offer you if buying from an Arthur Daley type outfit that traded from under a railway arch. (I did, actually, buy my first car ...[an early fifties Morris Minor for £75]...from such a dealer in 1968 and he really was trading from under a railway arch in the Lea Bridge Road, Leyton - that's East London for those not local to the South East).
I think a 60 day warranty would stop me from even going to look at the thing. To me it shows a virtually total lack of confidence in the thing they're selling.
In fact, I just decided that I don't think it would stop me from going .... IT WOULD stop me from going to view it.
Edited by KB. on 30/12/2017 at 21:04
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Well, I was told that this was their "standard" warranty, but agreed, it's a long way from generous.
I will still go and talk to the man and see/drive the car, and if I like it then there's still a conversation to be had about extending the warranty at their cost.
Put it this way: although it would of course be less money for the car in the first place, I could have gone private with no warranty or comeback whatsoever. So given that on the surface at least this LOOKS like the spec and mileage I want, I might as well try to make something out of it.
Thanks for that feedback anyhow.
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Have a look at Car Care Plan aftermarket warranty - in Thornbury West Yorkshire. I do know they provide the official extended warranties for loads of manufacturers and I did take out a policy for my Yeti due to concern for the DSG on it. Up to 5 years it covers a lot for a reasonable figure. Over 5 yrs it goes up and covers less and that's when I decided not to renew it. If I recall correctly it's cheaper if the car is 1200cc (possibly 1199cc) or less - the Yeti was just under that.
Edited by KB. on 30/12/2017 at 21:21
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Have a look at Car Care Plan aftermarket warranty - in Thornbury West Yorkshire. I do know they provide the official extended warranties for loads of manufacturers and di take a policy for my Yeti due to concern for the DSG on it. Up to 5 years it covers a lot for a reasonable figure. Over 5 yrs it goes up and covers less and that's when I decided not to renew it. I believe it's cheaper if the car is 1200cc or less - the Yeti was just under that.
Cheers, KB. I did have an aftermarket warranty on our Meriva and then our Focus with Motorway Direct, but ditched it after paying 20 quid per month for about seven years and claiming back less than a hundred. Which is how insurance generally works, of course.
But I'll certainly consider aftermarket if we love the car so much that even if they don't budge on extending the warranty we decide to buy it.
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I think its reasonable to say (and this may be removed, fair enough) that reviews of that dealership are "mixed".
And reviews, of course only ever tell part of the story, even when genuine.
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Just remebered you had to be a member of the CSMA (now re-named Boundless) to get the better rate. In practice almost anyone can qualify for said membership if they think hard enough. Membership is about £25 PA but does give you free "Legal Cover" included on your insurance and if you took out a normal policy it costs about the same to add the Legal Cover so it's effectively free. (provided you did normally elect to have Legal Cover.)
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I'm guessing being such a large group, the Arnold Clark warranty is their own?. If it is an RAC warranty, like i got with my caddy van, it can be used at any VAT registered garage. I did wonder about this beforehand as, if it was only usable in the garage i bought the van it would have effectively been useless!.
Looks good though argybargy, the only thing i noticed on the body was a mark on the rear bumper under the tailgate towards the N/S. It does, as Fiesta owner poits out, appear that the space saver is not held in place, but there are 2 bolt holes not visible so it could be attatched through either. The jack i would expect to be attatched with a velcro srap, so i wouldn't worry about that, it is easy enough to rectlify. As for the tyres, i'm not sure what Simon855 means by uncommon size, but a quick look on ebay suggests that ALL the major tyre manufactureres do tyres in that size. I looked up michelin, pirelli, continental, dunlop, goodyear, yokohama and bridgestone, and out of those, the cheapest was continental, a brand which i would be perfectly happy to use, at under £70 (including delivery. Obviously you would need a garage willing to fit them, but in my experience, this shouldn't cost more than about £40 to fit and balance the 4 tyres, and could be as little as £20.
But let us know how you get on!
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Will do, BBD, and thanks for your input.
The only research I did for tyres of that size was on Blackcircles and their Michelins were £107 fitted, which was a good £20 more than I paid for 205/55/16s on my Focus. Which led me to believe that yes, there was something unusual about the tyres. Anyhow as you say, there are plenty of good alternatives.
Will report back tomorrow. ;0)
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It was myself that mentioned tyre size and price initially ... mainly coz my Yeti has a particular size (225/50/17) and when you look that size up it's available but is more expensive than other configurations of a similar size and/or rolling diameter etc. I have used Oponeo and had them delivered from abroad and fitted independently anf they were fine.
Edited by KB. on 30/12/2017 at 21:32
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It was myself that mentioned tyre size and price initially ... mainly coz my Yeti has a particular size (225/50/17) and when you look that size up it's available but is more expensive than other configurations of a similar size and/or rolling diameter etc. I have used Oponeo and had them delivered from abroad and fitted independently anf they were fine.
Thanks for that, KB, and for the info about CSMA.
I'm a public sector pensioner so I think I would qualify for Boundless membership as of right, and I'll look into that further if AC refuse to extend the warranty.
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Tyres are of course widely available, it's just the size makes them uncommon and therefore more expensive than they need be, remember the Jazz is a supermini!
For example, the 15 inch tyres fitted to lessor spec Jazz cars are 175/65/15, the Michelins in this size are £37 cheaper, each.... (price is for fitted from Blackcircles, you might be able to save a few bob by getting them posted and subsequently fitted locally).
Regarding warranty worries, like I said our Jazz has had zero faults in the 4 years we've owned it. It'll be 8 years old soon (it was an early Mk2 car) and has had a set of front brake pads, a set of (expensive!) tyres and a set of wiper blades. Other than that it gets serviced once a year and is fed petrol. That's it.
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"Checked the MOT history and it shows first time passes in both 2016 and '17, so thats all OK.
As you suggest, the mileage indicates use being limited to daily local shopping trips,"
Check that the mileage on the MOTs is correct and tallies with the mileage on the clock. I wouldn't expect Arnold Clark to wind back mileage but a previous owner might have. I wouldn't take anything on trust.
Best of luck with it.
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Many thanks once more.
I've made a shopping list, including 12 months MOT, which shouldn't be a problem, a year's tax, (which is just £115 so might be within reach given the price he's quoted for ours) and I am determined to push for a longer warranty. If that's not on the table for either the same money that I've set aside to make the change or not much more. I'm intending to walk away.
Let's hope I don't love the car too much.
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Argy, I don't see any mention of the different Honda service regimes. Some are set to use variable servicing and others are on a fixed time/mileage basis. As far as I know this still applies to recent models but I may be out of date.
If its on variable, the advertised car, being low mileage, might have a "full" history that doesnt actually include an annual oil change. Opinions will differ on the forum as to whether thats an issue or not but its worth checking which regime this car is on, what sercices its had, and making your own decision as to whether it meets your needs. Variable servicing can flag up repeated service visits - oil one month, brake fluid the next etc so I guess that most owners opt for fixed.
If its on variable and you prefer fixed it can be disabled by a Honda dealer but its a one way process, it can't then be changed back.
My Honda dealer sometimes gets confused by the service regimes and alpa-numeric codes they use to describe them so its unlikely any non-franchised dealer will be familiar with them. Its worth looking at the Honda site. Its not complicated if you spend 5 minutes online. Few if any salesmen will do so.
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Thanks very much, catsdad. I wasn't aware that such a servicing arrangement existed, so I'll be sure to check.
Off shortly to do the dirty deed (or at least explore the possibility of doing it) so may be able to give an update this evening.
Thanks to everyone who has answered my OP for giving me all the ammo I need, and let's hope I use it wisely.
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They're great cars, vastly underrated in the UK (the Honda Fit has a decent youth following around the globe...).
Good luck.
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TYRES
The model in the ad is an ES.. not an EX.
SO 175/65/15 tyres NOT 16 inch tyres so £70 each tops.
NO sunroof. No parking sensors.
Don't believe everything you read on forums! :-)
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Wrong. It's an ES+ with 16 inch wheels.
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Well, unfortunately it didn't work out.
Got there and purely by coincidence parked right next to the Jazz. Had a good look around the car before heading into the dealership: the alloys were badly kerbed and scuffed front nearside and offside rear. Noticed a few small blemishes around the drivers door lock, but nothing major. Car was clearly showing the correct mileage, and the salesman showed me the service book with annual services stamped, (so not variable servicing). Elderly male owner who used it for shopping and not much else, so it seems.
Under bonnet was clean and cold and it started up first time, sounding sweet as anything. Really impressed with the magic seats and also the size of the boot, which (presumably at the expense of legroom in the back) is much bigger than that of the B Max. Lots of buttons and switches inside, automatic climate control etc.
But...although I didn't actually take it on the road (see below), Mrs Argy Bargy found the seats less comfortable than the B Max, and because the seating position is lower down she struggled to get up and out of the car without using her stick.
Absolutely no movement from the salesman on putting a year's tax on the car or extending the warranty, so I handed the keys back without driving it. He said he could talk to the general manager about 12 months MOT, but couldn't guarantee that. Weighing the great practicality of the car plus the Honda reliability against those issues which I had put down as our red line, and in particular the seating position and a longer warranty, we couldn't take the thing any further.
To be fair to the salesman, he did remark that if I'd spoken to him on the phone yesterday about the warranty extension it might have saved us a wasted journey, but at least now we have seen a Jazz in the metal. Its just that lower down seating position which is making me think we need to go for something where the seats are higher.
So 80 miles and a couple of hours down the pan buying wise, but not in terms of our general car replacement journey.
Oh, and the B Max behaved impeccably all the way there and back. ;0)
Edited by argybargy on 31/12/2017 at 16:19
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Well, unfortunately it didn't work out.
Got there and purely by coincidence parked right next to the Jazz. Had a good look around the car before heading into the dealership: the alloys were badly kerbed and scuffed front nearside and offside rear. Noticed a few small blemishes around the drivers door lock, but nothing major. Car was clearly showing the correct mileage, and the salesman showed me the service book with annual services stamped, (so not variable servicing). Elderly male owner who used it for shopping and not much else, so it seems.
Under bonnet was clean and cold and it started up first time, sounding sweet as anything. Really impressed with the magic seats and also the size of the boot, which (presumably at the expense of legroom in the back) is much bigger than that of the B Max. Lots of buttons and switches inside, automatic climate control etc.
But...although I didn't actually take it on the road (see below), Mrs Argy Bargy found the seats less comfortable than the B Max, and because the seating position is lower down she struggled to get up and out of the car without using her stick.
Absolutely no movement from the salesman on putting a year's tax on the car or extending the warranty, so I handed the keys back without driving it. He said he could talk to the general manager about 12 months MOT, but couldn't guarantee that. Weighing the great practicality of the car plus the Honda reliability against those issues which I had put down as our red line, and in particular the seating position and a longer warranty, we couldn't take the thing any further.
To be fair to the salesman, he did remark that if I'd spoken to him on the phone yesterday about the warranty extension it might have saved us a wasted journey, but at least now we have seen a Jazz in the metal. Its just that lower down seating position which is making me think we need to go for something where the seats are higher.
So 80 miles and a couple of hours down the pan buying wise, but not in terms of our general car replacement journey.
Oh, and the B Max behaved impeccably all the way there and back. ;0)
Sorry it didn't work out. Better to walk away, than buy it and regret it. Not a wasted trip though, as you now no that the Jazz isn't the car for you.
When I've bought cars in the past the salesman has been back and forward to the boss "to try and get a better deal for me". You know how the patter normally goes. I expect these discussions to be done at the time, not a few days later when the boss is there.
Quite agree that a 60 day warranty is poor for a car they're asking £7000 for. Think legally they're reponsible for defects for 6 months (within reason, it is a 4 year old car). If they're only prepared to offer 60 days warranty, it makes them sound like they'll try and duck out of their responsibility after the 60 days.
However take your time. You're in the fortunate position that you don't need to change car just now. You can take your time until you see the right one.
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Shame - but you'll have learned from this and will take that extra experience to the next one you view. And it's possible that one might not be the right one either ... but eventually it'll slot into place, be that with a Jazz or something else. If the Jazz IS too low then at least you've found that out and can discount it ... I do remember sitting in one (the same model as the one you looked at) and thinking the seating position wasn't especially high and it fell out of favour with me. The Yeti IS higher and I love it.
Rather like yourself I lean towards extra height. And an automatic is almost obligatory. There would be a few contenders, including a Vitara, which has height but not excessive length and does come in auto. options, albeit both twin clutch and torque converter, depending on model. If and when I'm serious about looking around that would be among the first to view. But I imagine you've considered one and discounted it ... to be honest I can't remember your criteria off the top of my head.
Better luck next time.
Edited by KB. on 31/12/2017 at 17:32
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Thanks, both.
Disappointing on one level, but I'm glad we set those red lines and stayed with them.
Criteria...basically, that 'er indoors can get in and out without having to lean on her stick to do so, and remain well supported by the seats on a longish trip. Priced at around 7k second hand, not necessarily roomy in the back because it tends only to be the two of us;decent boot, seats that fold flat or almost flat to take bags of garden rubbish, bed bases, DIY materials, anything else I happen to be moving at the time. Nothing too sluggish, but I'd rather have a car that hits sixty sooner rather than later. 5 doors rather than 3. I'd be happy to go back to a manual if the above combination wasn't available in auto.
Most of that we already have with the B Max, and if we hadn't gone for the Powershift there might not have been an issue. But we are where we are.
It was a Kia dealer that we went to today, but when I asked about the Venga he warned against it as an alternative, mainly on the grounds of planet-wrecking MPG, as already mentioned here.
The Mazda 2 has been suggested also, but I'd imagine that again the seating position is going to be too low down for the missus. Now that the Jazz has proven not to be the perfect solution that I'd hoped for, I'm starting to struggle for an alternative; price being the thing that prevents us from widening our search.
Still, I might look for another Jazz closer to home and this time have a drive of it with Mrs A in the car. She might just enjoy it when its on the move.
Edited by argybargy on 31/12/2017 at 18:31
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If it doesn't HAVE to be auto. then is there a reason you haven't mentioned a petrol Yeti. If it HAD to be auto. then I can see that you might have put off by the DSG (although I much prefer my DSG to a manual.... I love it.) It's six and a half yrs old and I guess it might fetch six or maybe seven grand... (I'm guessing really, it might be less, it might be a lot less) it's one owner, low mileage and immaculate... so if I have such a car then there must be others - more likely manual ones. It's 1.2 petrol and is quick enough for most people, the boot's not bad, it's high, it's safe and, IMO, it's quite quiet and comfortable, the insurance and maintenance is reasonable. Maybe a Yeti would tick some, or more, of your boxes?
Edited by KB. on 31/12/2017 at 19:32
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Most of that we already have with the B Max, and if we hadn't gone for the Powershift there might not have been an issue. But we are where we are.
In that case, have you considered another B-Max, but with a 1.4 petrol engine with a 5 speed manual gearbox?
Seems to be quite a few low mileage Zetec models around on 63 or 14 plates on Autotrader, within the £7000 price tag.
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KB, no, I've not looked at the Yeti, but I will. Someone I know has a 66 plate Yeti, and although I haven't had a close look at his car, I assumed that even second hand they'd be expensive.
FO, the only option available to me in the B Max is, as you say, the 1.4, UNLESS I went for one of the Ecoboost engines. I've been warned off the latter on this and other forums and performance of the 1.4 is apparently flat as a fluke, so no real option to change for a different version of the model. Which is a real shame.
1.6 petrol engine with manual gearbox would have been a popular option in the B Max range, I'm sure.
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Quick scan of Autodoofer reveals few Yetis in our price range (up to £7K) within 40 miles, and most of them diesels. Not keen on that option, to be honest.
Might still venture out and look at one, just for reference.
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Try a Yaris for comfort too. CVT auto is well proven and the 1.33 petrol is almost indestructible. I find them nicer to drive than the Mk II Jazz too. If the management can get comfortable in one it’d be a good option. Here’s one at a Toyota dealer with 12mths Toyota approved used warranty that’s not too far off. Negotiate and a deal should be possible within budget.
Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171005998...1
Edited by SLO76 on 01/01/2018 at 11:25
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