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Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bilboman

Having watched a few "UK Bad Drivers" videos recently, a lot of the accidents occur when a driver at a junction turns right across the path of a car (or bike) s/he hasn't seen in time. It is invariably the fault of the driver turning right, but it always seems to happen straight after the light has gone green. The brains of hassled, tired, under-stress drivers are wired "green for go", and this instinct seems to override the "watch out for oncoming cars" circuit. In other countries it is impossible to go through a green light and NOT have priority over other cars, so perhaps a rethink is needed. All sorts of simple solutions would serve to make right-turning drivers a little more alert - a flashing amber arrow; a flashing Give Way triangle sign; road layouts which force opposing right-turning drivers to pass on the driver's side; better road markings. Or maybe some radical adjustments to busy four way intersections so that only one lane can move at any time (This could be programmed for peak traffic periods).
Any thoughts?

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bolt

A certain amount of that is caused by drivers not concentrating on what they are doing, I do agree that certain junctions are really bad layout wise, but some drivers are so slow moving across some junctions

if drivers concentrated more on what they were meant to be doing,I doubt there would be half the accidents, like some trafffic lights that change quickly- drivers waiting for them to change(having a conversation face to face with passenger) take ages in moving off, then wonder why cars are hooting behind.

some junctions I`m certain are designed to cause problems, and a local one is being altered now because build up of traffic and accidents caused havoc for miles, whoever designed it in the first place needs sacking...

Edited by bolt on 04/12/2017 at 09:08

Time for a rethink on junction design? - daveyjp

I regularly use two sets of lights which have a separate set for right turning traffic.

Both sets start on red, straight ahead goes to green, right turn stays red to allow traffic approaching the junction free passage, then the right turn set changes to green and approaching traffic is held on red

It seems to cause more confusion than it prevents as plenty of drivers turn right on red!

Time for a rethink on junction design? - argybargy

Whatever the solution, in its early stages at least its likely to cause more confusion and therefore probably more collisions.

Human fallibility will always find a way to confound the best efforts of those who design our roads. Which is another shout for "driverless" cars.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - focussed

The solution is quite simple - remove all traffic lights and most of the signs - leave it up to the driver to decide what to do and when to do it.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bolt

The solution is quite simple - remove all traffic lights and most of the signs - leave it up to the driver to decide what to do and when to do it.

Recipe for disaster that is, without a sign some don`t know if they are coming or going lol-assuming they can read signs that is?

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bilboman

Red arrows have never been used (as traffic lights at road junctions, I mean), perhaps to allow for colour blind drivers? They seem to work fine on the continent. Perhaps a switchable "no right turn" sign - lit up to stop cars turning right but blanked out to allow a right turn - would be more intuitive.

One thing I greatly miss about driving in Britain is the "red + amber" phase to give drivers that little extra warning of a change to green. Very civilised. An idea that works well in Greece is the "advance yellow" (taken straight from the railways) - 100 metres before the junction is a pair of ambers which start to flash to warn of a change to red at the junction. Once the ambers are flashing, there is no way on God's earth you can make it to green so drivers begin to slow down rather than making a mad dash. Greece being Greece, they all overshoot the stop line so they can't actually see the lights and then have to wait for following drivers to hoot!

Edited by Bilboman on 04/12/2017 at 19:39

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Andrew-T

100 metres before the junction is a pair of ambers which start to flash to warn of a change to red at the junction.

Most British traffic lights are less than 100 metres from the next, so there isn't space to use this sensible device. Yet more lights would add to the confusion.

One thing the Yanks and Canadians can do, on their grid pattern streets, is to phase the lights so that traffic on the major route can proceed almost without stopping - if they stick to the speed limit of course ....

Time for a rethink on junction design? - focussed

You think so ?

Look up the new traffic protocol in a town in the Netherlands called Drachten.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - argybargy

The solution is quite simple - remove all traffic lights and most of the signs - leave it up to the driver to decide what to do and when to do it.

Since Sunday, perhaps longer, a major junction on one of our local arterial roads has had a complete failure of the lights.

People are working things out for themselves and from what I've seen when using it (and I haven't yet been through at rush hour) most drivers are coping well when deciding priorities.

Given long enough, of course, it could all go to rodent ordure.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bilboman

Worth a try, though, eh?
thecityfix.com/blog/naked-streets-without-traffic-.../

Time for a rethink on junction design? - galileo

On my morning commute, if the lights failed at a major junction on the ring road, traffic queues were shorter than when the lights were working. Noticed ths on more than one occasion.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Big John

This is what I have at the end of the road , awful awful junction:-

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3644931/Junction-...l

It all broke down one day and traffic flow drastically improved

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Bilboman

"Awful, awful junction" barely does this monstrosity justice. Cholesterol on the roads and ulcers for all those passing through it. The councillors and so-called engineers responsible for this should be strapped into fixed gear bicycles and made to cycle through their mess for several days without a break.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Andrew-T

"Awful, awful junction" barely does this monstrosity justice. .

The other factor in such a thing is that all street furniture is fixed objects ready to be crashed into. This system is simply a huge pinball machine for any out-of-control vehicle - even if the designers used poles which snap off easily, thereby causing a good deal of chaos.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Snakey

Definitely - in North Shields on the Billy Mill some muppet decided to replace a perfectly working roundabout with a complete disaster of traffic lights.

Result - queues all the time, even at night. Previously you had smaller queues only at rush hour. This was all decided by some buffoon who obviously doesn't like roundabouts!

Time for a rethink on junction design? - focussed

Definitely - in North Shields on the Billy Mill some muppet decided to replace a perfectly working roundabout with a complete disaster of traffic lights.

Result - queues all the time, even at night. Previously you had smaller queues only at rush hour. This was all decided by some buffoon who obviously doesn't like roundabouts!

Probably done to pander to the cyclists and pedestrians to whom a roundabout is anathema.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Engineer Andy

Definitely - in North Shields on the Billy Mill some muppet decided to replace a perfectly working roundabout with a complete disaster of traffic lights.

Result - queues all the time, even at night. Previously you had smaller queues only at rush hour. This was all decided by some buffoon who obviously doesn't like roundabouts!

Its the same in Stevenage - some muppet decided that it was a good idea some years ago to put partial (only on two of the four exits) traffic lights on roundabout with heavy tidal traffic flows - the problem is that, especially in the evenings, it leds to horrendous queues on the (major) road the most people are using to go home from work, and the only alternative is a rat-run through a housing development and over those horrible (tyre and suspension-killing) pimple type speed cushions. Most drivers don't know about it, because if they did in reasonable qualtites, both roads would be snarled up.

I once waiting in a jam on the main road there (no actual hold ups due to accidents etc, just traffic couldn't get onto the roundbout) one Friday evening for 45 mins, just to go 1/4 - 1/2 a mile (no way to turn around other than illegally and dangerously to mount the central reservation onto the other dual carriageway side). So its either risk getting caught every other day in long queues, or use the rat run (longer route by distance) that takes longer if the roads are clear (you can't tell until its too late to change your mind) and knacker your car.

Nice one Mr. road planner. Hertfordshire Country Council and Stevenage Borough Council almost certainly know about this problem (in my view) - they just can't be asked (or have the skill/common sense) to do anything about it.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - galileo

If they are like our local Council it is deliberate policy - they are all cyclists/pedestrians and hope we'll give up our cars and use buses.

Time for a rethink on junction design? - Snakey

Seem like the local council guy is canadian - maybe they don't have roundabouts over there and he's scared of them....