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Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

Partners 207 has suddenly started loosing coolant at approx half a header a week.

There are no signs of leaks.

Are these basic cars know to suffer from this ? The c ar has done 67 K

Many thanks

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Peter.N.

If there is no sign of a leak I would suspect a failed head gasket I'm afraid, is their any sign of dried coolant around the filler cap?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Thanks Peter. So look at the oil level and filler cap for signs of antifreeze?
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

If there is no sign of a leak I would suspect a failed head gasket I'm afraid, is their any sign of dried coolant around the filler cap?

Probably - unless the heater circuit is leaking somewhere? How about the oil filler cap? How old is the car, with how many miles? I guess it will be on its original blue coolant?

Edited by Andrew-T on 29/11/2017 at 11:27

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
The car is a 2009 Reg

The cooling system has been pressure tested which showed no faults. And there are no leaks on the drive.

No mayo in the oil cap , but it continues to loose half a litre a week of the orange OAT

Any suggestions please?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Any suggestions please?

Very similar story here ...

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=106120

Edited by Andrew-T on 07/12/2017 at 23:23

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

So grateful for this link Andrew.

I'll get my Indie to check this out. There are no leaks around what i believe to be the temperature sensor.

Any idea how I can identify the sensor as there are several in that area

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

There are no leaks around what i believe to be the temperature sensor. Any idea how I can identify the sensor as there are several in that area.

I don't know this engine, but there are pointers to it in the link I gave. Your indie should recognise it, but I would guess at a 1-inch hex-nut with (naturally) an elec connection.

Yours may even be the same car :-) ?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Firstly I will try wrapping a cloth around the header tank as you suggested and check for dampness
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
No signs of dampness around the header tank when a cloth is wrapped around on a journey.

But the temperature gauge is registering higher than before the coolant loss occurred.

Maybe worth changing the temperature sender as suggested?
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - elekie&a/c doctor

If there is no external leak,then the coolant loss must be internal within the engine.Have you had a combustion/head gasket contamination test? Unlikely to be a coolant sensor fault,unless it is leaking through the body and up the wiring connector. If I recall ,the sensor is a push fit into an o-ring and held with a horseshoe clip.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Thank you once again Elecie doc for your assistance.
The car is using about 250 ml a week. And I wonder what are the risks of continuing to drive the car as normal and just topping up at the weekend ?

Is the head gasket likely to blow causing irreparable damage ? In the mean time I Weill try to arrange the test you recommend.
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

Is anything noticeable if you get home after a journey and just leave the engine running - any steam, drips on the floor? Noise of escaping steam? No leaks from the heater circuit?

If everything is 'dry' then the coolant is going down the exhaust. How it gets there is the big question. I don't think a head gasket will 'blow', just get slowly worse - and it depends which galleries in the block are connected by the leak.

I don't know how prolonged exposure to antifreeze from the coolant affects the cat-converter?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Thanks Andrew. No sign of leaks anywhere so think you and Elecie doc are right in suggesting the coolant is going down the exhaust.

Will try and arrange with my indie to test the emissions for coolant
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Coolant loss now running at max to min in an week.
Indie will carry out a head test in the new year, but gas any one any other ideas about the cause ?
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Indie will carry out a head test in the new year, but gas any one any other ideas about the cause ?

Re a head test - make sure it is thorough. My 205 started showing traces of oil in the coolant reservoir, and my (trusted) indie did a head test, saying it was OK. I had the gasket replaced anyway, and the coolant has been clean since. But it wsn't disappearing from the tank ....

Edited by Andrew-T on 21/12/2017 at 09:39

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - John F
Indie will carry out a head test in the new year, but gas any one any other ideas about the cause ?

All seem agreed the cause is a failing head gasket. So not much point in doing an expensive investigation which might well give you a false negative result if the leak is tiny.

If I were you I would try retorquing the head bolts if you can get at them. Might help, and nothing to lose by doing so if the head's got to come off anyway.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

<< If I were you I would try retorquing the head bolts if you can get at them. >>

Trouble is, John, these are stretch bolts. I'm no expert, but those I have spoken to don't like retightening stretch bolts. I guess it might just seal a leak, but the only sure way to solve this problem is the expensive way.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - John F

You are probably right, A-T, I had assumed they were normal bolts in an old car. However, I would risk cracking them undone one by one with my old crude bar torque wrench, noting its starting position, observing the torque needed when retightening back to starting position then if this is less than 60 ftlb (mine's in old units) continue till it is, or stop if it feels as though going to shear.

www.freeasestudyguides.com/a1_4.html

I think it unlikely that they would shear at this level which is enough for a good squeeze - almost what is needed for our Focus wheel bolts. Of course, the OP could gamble 16 pounds on a new set and torque them in as per Peugeout instructions. I have no idea whether they can be removed without disturbing the cam - no doubt others can advise....

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - sammy1

I have been following this, why not try Radwell Wynns or similar product or have you considered the coolant pressure cap?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

.... have you considered the coolant pressure cap?

Read all the posts above - it seems the pressure cap has been checked for coolant loss, but one never knows ....

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
After another days investigation including a cylinder head test and pressure test my indie reports no cylinder head gasket problems thank goodness and because of the small amount of loss , which accounts for half a liter a month , just to carry on until something becomes apparent.

Prefer not to use Radweld until it is vitally imperative

Thanks for all your suggestions. Same engine as a basic Mini so has anyone come up with this problem before ?
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Prefer not to use Radweld until it is vitally imperative.

I'm not sure how effective Radweld is for leaks inside the block. I thought it was more suited to radiators (hence the name :-) ) or heater matrices or other places which don't get as hot, or suffer pressure differentials? And there are all the old stories about mustard, porridge oats and other k^tch^n items being just as effective ....

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Just realised the car heater / air con gives off a smell of stale water, sort of musty, when it first starts in the morning.
Tried everything to sort it , air con bomb, new pollen filter , heater full on before switch off with no improvement.

But could a leak in the heater matrix be causing the smell and the coolant leak?
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - focussed

But wouldn't it just smell of antifreeze/coolant?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Just realised the car heater / air con gives off a smell of stale water, sort of musty, when it first starts in the morning. Tried everything to sort it , air con bomb, new pollen filter , heater full on before switch off with no improvement. But could a leak in the heater matrix be causing the smell and the coolant leak?

Although I have owned a 207 for nine years I don't know the exact location of the heater matrix. In older Peugeots it was tucked away under the centre of the dash, and any leaks became evident with a puddle, usually in the passenger footwell. As you have been topping up the coolant regularly I would have thought that would not be musty, so any mustiness may be coming from under the carpets. Try looking there (that'll be fun :-( ) though from your account you have lost a lot of coolant, so it must be escaping somewhere or any puddle would be quite noticeable?

Air-con is often a source of odd smells, so have you checked the intake vent in the scuttle in front of the screen for leaves or other fallout?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - sammy1

3 weeks now since you posted the car was losing header tank -half a litre- a week. If it was leaking into the carpets footwell you would be swimming by now. Must be going somewhere.If there are no visible leaks have you tried a big piece of cardboard underneath assuming you do not have an undertray. How old is the car? You saythe pressure test was OK but have to question it. Water/steam could be blowing through the head or again the pressure cap. Pressumably you are filling with water rather than coolant so beware cold temps. If it were mine I'd be trying some sealant by now!! or another cap which sealant won't fix.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Thanks everyone.

Have ordered a new coolant cap as suggested. But my indie believes the leak will manifest itself eventually
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Have ordered a new coolant cap as suggested. But my indie believes the leak will manifest itself eventually

I thought you had checked all those things for leakage?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

Just a long chance Andrew.

Not sure where to go from here but to wait until it gets worse.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Gibbo_Wirral

Are you re-bleeding the system after you top up?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

How do you do that Gibbo

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

HJ has suggested that I should accept the inevitable that the head gasket is the problem.

But what are the consequences of taking the car on a long high speed journey with this undiagnosed fault ?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb

Is it possible to retro fit a coolant level sensor similar to the one used in the K series engine to stop it overheating?

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T

But what are the consequences of taking the car on a long high speed journey with this undiagnosed fault ?

I have only limited experience of head gasket failure. That example was with a 20-year-old 205, and the symptom was traces of oil appearing in the coolant overflow tank, though the usual test had proved negative. The leak was so slight that there seemed very little risk of sudden failure, I had the head skimmed to preserve a cherished vehicle.

It sounds as though your HG is letting cylinder pressure into the coolant galleries. Again I would take a chance against sudden failure, but I might try to avoid vigorous driving, but overheating seems less likely at this time of year. If the HG were to fail suddenly I guess there would be a visible escape of steam, but there should be an indication on the temp. gauge first. Not likely to kill the engine IMHO.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - liammcl

If you take the cap off and rev the engine, can you see bubbles?

or maybe, try looking under the engine , when it's hot)
in pitch dark with a torch's pencil beam to see any wisks of steam from anywhere in the engine bay.

Also, a uv torch from ebay £2 would show the fluorescence of any leaking antifreeze?
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-LED-Mini-Aluminum-UV-Ultra-Vi...Y


Well, I never, you can buy kits with glow in the dark liquid for easier detection
www.amazon.co.uk/Torch-Detection-Cooling-Antifreez...4

Cheers
Liam

Edited by liammcl on 08/02/2018 at 01:21

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Got a second opinion from an ex recovery bloke who tested the cooling system, pronounced it ok and then found the leak from the water pump area.

Obviously the leak takes place when the car is moving and the coolant must spread under the car with none on the floor when stopped.

Getting it fixed next week.

40 years in the trade and he sorted it in half an hour . Experience is everything!
Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Andrew-T
Got a second opinion from an ex recovery bloke who tested the cooling system, pronounced it ok and then found the leak from the water pump area. Obviously the leak takes place when the car is moving and the coolant must spread under the car with none on the floor when stopped.

Good news if this is the correct diagnosis. But water pumps are usually changed with the cambelt - when was that last done? It may not have been at that age and mileage, but if you are changing the water pump, may as well do the belt at the same time. The jobs require similar dismantling and reassembly.

Peugeot 207 SW 1.4 petrol - Coolant loss - Steveieb
Thanks Andrew.
But I m pretty sure this 1.4 petrol engine with a cam chain so it won't have been tampered with.
Hopefully it won't be an epic job, it's the same engine used in the Mini.