I believe the first gen cars can have a refurbished power pack for less than £1,000 now with a couple of smaller UK firms offering this service. Still a big cost on a car with little value though.

I hadn't heard of anyone offering this service on Toyota hybrids until now, probably lack of demand previously and the fact that if you look after your car and get it serviced reasonably MrT doesn't turn his back on his customers the day warranty expires.

There is a chap who will refurb Honda hybrid battery packs.

I don't think £1000 is in any way unreasonable, most people with a ten year old car that has another ten years use in it (obviously i refer to sensible owners here, not the neglectful whose cars won't see 12 years) wouldn't consider that cost for a new clutch and DMF or a new DPF was a reason on its own to get rid, so that £1000 battery refurb should be looked at in the same light.

As for other maker's hybrids, er no thanks, given the well reported lack of customer service from so many i wouldn't touch an out of warranty hybrid from any of the alternatives, for the increasing number of '3 years then rent another' private car users that doesn't matter of course.

Edited by gordonbennet on 02/10/2017 at 09:54

Toyota has in several foums made the claim that the hybrid battery is designed to last the life of the car. But they don't state what the expected life of the car is.

In the PRIUS chat forum, there are several postings on users having the experience of having to replace their car batteries. Those experiences though mostly relate to the states. Apparently there, Toyota charges $3500 for a new battery, with a additional warranty of 3 (earlier 1) years.

Also replacing individual cells does not seem to be a viable solution in the long term.

There are 3rd parties who manufacture PRIUS equivalent batteries (such as Dorman rehabilated battery pack), at a cheaper price with a greater warranty than Toyota in the U.S. However, not all users are happy with their experience. The general consensus on PRIUS chat is that the best option is to get a new battery from Toyota, if the owner is planning to retain the car long term.

In U.K. the costs of new Prius batteries are as fiollows:-

"If you do need to replace an entire battery pack, it’s not as costly as you might expect. For a Mk1 or Mk2 Prius, it’s £1,201 and £1,068 respectively on an exchange basis; a new battery for a Mk3 is priced at a hefty £5,730, though. Replacing the pack on an original Honda Insight or Civic IMA will cost you around £2,000, but it’s a more palatable £900 on the later Insight and Civic IMA. In 2012, Honda switched from nickel metal hydride batteries to lithium-ion versions, virtually tripling replacement costs in the process, from £972 to £2,700 – not that any of these batteries have yet needed to be replaced."

source:- http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/94872/buying-a-used-hybrid-car-the-complete-guide

However the prospect of spending £5730 on a new Gen 3 battery used in the PRIUS or Auris is scary.

That begets the question, how frequently do they fail?

I understand that failures happen more commonly in hot conditions such as in Arizona and parts of Australia. The only statistics I could find are as follows:-

". According to the 200,000+ mile thread, 15% of gen 2 Prius batteries fail in 200,000-300,000 miles. That percentage is higher than the True Delta or Consumer Reports data that suggests roughly 3% of gen 2 Prii have battery failures. But even if you go with the higher number, there's still 85% of Prii whose batteries run fine through 200,000 miles or more. So as long as you check out all the cars that interest you and make sure the one you buy is in good condition, you've still got pretty good odds that you'll be fine on the battery front. "

source:- https://priuschat.com/threads/hybrid-battery-replacement-or-not.176455/

This does indicate a low failure rate.

However failures do happen. Toyota does have a fault code, which indicates that hybrid battery needs replacement. The fault code is:-PA080 code

Now the question this boils down to is,

Is it economical for a low mileage driver, driving say 6 - 8000 miles per year, to buy a used Toyota Auris hybrid for about £6000. That is the cost of a 2010 model, with about 75000 miles on it.

Considering a1 10 MPG mileage improvement over a nequivalent Civic (assuming say 35 MPG for a Civic and 45 MPG for a Hybrid), one would save about £200 a year in fuel costs, if one were driving 10,000 miles. One would also save about £200 a year on VED.

So a total savings pf about £400 a year. Over 5 years that would save you about £2000.

Which is about the cost difference between an equivalent age / mileage Civic and an auris hybrid.

The question is does the economics still work out? Does the risk of battery failure skew the equation, in favour of a traditional petrol;? Particulalrly for low lileage drivers?

If so, what annual mileage would be the cut off point?

Any thoughts on this, appreciated...

This problem could potentially be solved, by using a trickle charge to keep the 12 volt battery charged.

Not sure how feasible this is, for a car parked on the street. May require a long extension lead...

There's a potential Achilles heel with hybrids, certainly Toyotas and presumably all of them. In addition to the main batteries, there's a small 12-volt battery which is needed to start the car. SWMBO's sister has a 12-registered Auris hybrid; she lives in west London and doesn't use it much, and whe she does it's mainly short jourmeys.

Occasionally, and without warning, the small battery flattens, particularly if the car hasn't been used for a few days. She was trying to be environmentally correct in having a hybrid, but personally I think she'd be better off with a petrol. Her last car was a petrol Verso which never went wrong in 10 years.

She's 75 and has an older, disabled husband - so I might resort to some of Skidpan's lexicon if someone starts saying she ought to use taxis. Her car is parked on the street, so for her, as for 000s of others, a pure EV is out.