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Well I was willing to do dsg oil changes etc and care for it as i teally like the car, I knew it wouldnt be cheap but not pay for engine problems etc, i thought it had been looked after as full service history stamps etc. Recent dsg oil change in july this year with new steering rack and tyres.
No they wont repair it as they said its just an engine light just dust, they said to use the warrenty and take to halfords but I dont like halfords heard bad stuff plus also the moment I do that it over writes all the seat history. So they said if you dont want to do that then return and they will refund the money.
Well yes thats what I thought i didnt like how they dismissed the light and lack of care and just seemed easier to them to refund me which is odd
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Accept the refund and walk away. And be grateful to have gotten off lightly.
These DSG gearboxes are pretty notorious for problems. It could end up being a money pit.
Even if you did a gearbox fluid/filter change now, it should have been done at least once previously. If it hasn't (and if you've not got absolute proof in the form of an invoice for the previous work, then you must assume a tick in a service book is worthless), then it's still quite possibly going to be a problem in the future.
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If the dealer isn't willing to repair it then I would take his offer of a full refund whilst it is on the table. It sounds to me like he knows it could have an expensive problem and wants shot of it with as little comeback as possible.
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Yea i think you may be right, thats the feeling im getting because why would you dismiss a engine light, im not that stupid I know they come on for a reason. Once I stated that and wanted to know engine code, they seemed to then change their tune and say well just get a refund if your not happy.
Which is great but so hard to find a automatic car that I like and is decent hence why I was hoping they would fix it.
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I know thats what I need to realistically just so hard when I love the car but i know its the right thing to do.
I know but I can only drive automatics so just something I have to risk unless I go for the old style automatics.
No theres a receipt for one in July and yea the rest is just service stamps and wrote what had been done but no receipts for anything else.
So really the best thing to do is just return the car and get full refund then.
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If you go for the refund option then make sure the transfer is done there and then before handing over the keys to the car.I have seen too many tv programs where the customer hands over the keys and the dealer promises to refund the money in the next few days.
They end up with no car and no money.
Take your bank transfer details with you on the day of hand over and confirm its been paid via online banking on your phone before handing him the keys.
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Okay yeah I wouldnt walk away with them saying that.
I paid via card though so will it still be same process? Or will it be refunded to my card like they do in a general shop?
The whole thing has annoyed me now I thought for this money it would be a relativly simple and easy process to buy a decent car with no issues and if they were issues that they would fix it no problem. Wishful thinking I guess.
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I'd take the refund...and do it sharpish.!
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Yeah thats my gut feeling however my partner is saying wait till thursday to see what halfords say as the engine is in good condition i.e oil clean and running fine.
Hence why Ive been in two minds but I really dont want to be stuck with a empty money pit when ive spent 5k.
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You have not mentioned anything about your motoring requirements such as mileage, space, etc.
But, if you need a car of a similar size to the seat, the only thing that comes to mind would be the civic 1.8 auto. Some way short of the seat's power and torque, the honda has 138bhp and 128lb/ft of torque (compared with the seat's 198bhp and 206lb/ft of torque). It is going to feel a bit flat after the seat but that is more to do with the torque defisit than the honda having an old style automatic, however, it should still be quick enough. More importantly though, it is unlikely to go wrong (though bear in mind, it will be less economical). There are other cars out there of a similar budget with the traditional auto gearbox (mazda 3, hyundai i30, kia cee'd, toyota auris, etc), but they tend to be 1.6 engine which will have around 100-120 bhp.
If you don't cover a lot of miles and don't need the practicality of a hatchback, then you might want to have a look at a lexus is250. This is a saloon of a similar size to a bmw 3 series and has a 2.5l V6 engine producing just over 200bhp. It is still slower than the seat, but is a lovely smooth performer and lexus reliability is well proven. If you could scrape together another grand, that would get you into a 2008/2009 model with >60k miles.
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Thankyou, I do around 20,000 to 30,000 a year and reasonable space required anything similar to a seat leon. Ive always had hatch backs had a astra then ford then a lovely leon until someone wrote it off when it was parked up.
I do like the longer cars but worried about parking them etc as ive never been bigger than this.
The reason I never went for a astra or focus again was because once I got my 04 plate leon the driving style is so much better. I.e turning and just the general feeling, astras and fords feel so much more stiff and turning is not the same when compared to a leon.
Ive also always got a bigger litre so started with a 1.6 then a 1.8 and now this 2.0 i think it will be hard to go back down in size now. Still want something nippy but practical at the same time. And mpg im not that bothered about before now always had old automatics so they have always been expensive anyway. If of course I could get a better mpg it would be a bonus.
I was looking at audi a3 bmw 1 series and leons when I bought this. Just when it comes to automatics its very limited range hence why im so gutted about this engine light and been in two minds. However i know there must be something wrong then resetting it does not mean its okay now.
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I know thats what I need to realistically just so hard when I love the car but i know its the right thing to do.
I know but I can only drive automatics so just something I have to risk unless I go for the old style automatics.
No theres a receipt for one in July and yea the rest is just service stamps and wrote what had been done but no receipts for anything else.
No. No, no, no, no.
It's a piece of metal. Not a child, or a pet, or a lover. A piece of metal. It will not love you back, it does not care what you think. It is metal.
And a car needs proper maintenance - in the case of DSG gearboxes, regular fluid and filter changes, done properly, by a garage that knows what they are doing.
Get rid. And, if you really want good advice on what to buy, we have one highly knowledgable professional car dealer on here (SLO76),along with plenty of amateurs who also know a fair bit. And then there's the reviews database - a mountain of information, problems reported with cars, known problem areas, etc.
SLO76 has even been known (if he's got the time), if you put up roughly where in the country you are, have a look of Autotrader and give his opinion on various cars that are for sale in your area.
Make use of all this help that is available - free of charge. But please, do it BEFORE you buy again.
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I know your right.
Yeah I was aware of that I didnt mind doing that if the car had been maintained previously I was willing to carry it on and all the reviews i could find on the leon fr were mostly positive and said it was realiable. . However now since seeing the light i dont feel this way, I just feel that its the start of more issues to come.
Yeah that wpuld be great, I wasnt aware of this forum untill I googled about my issues so new to here.
How do I find members to contact them?
Im in Leeds so automatics theres really not much choice especially when I need it to tick all my boxes that I have.
Thankyou great advice I will for sure.
Need to get this car back first and get the money returned to me, more time without a car again such a inconveniance.
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Spotted a few worthy of note but unless you're willing to spend a lot more money I'd forget anything with an automated manual box like the DSG or Ford's Powershift. Both are hugely complex, very prone to failure at this sort of age and painfully expensive to fix. Performance is also secondary to reliability, you will get there faster in a car that actually works.
As you're not looking for finance you have the freedom to buy privately too which can be rich grounds for good cars.
Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170911917...0
Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170818844...8
Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170915932...8
Edited by SLO76 on 01/10/2017 at 16:21
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Thankyou no dont want to spend any more as need to factor in servicing etc...
I know my mechanic did say to me about the dsg but if its been maintaoned as it should of been then it should be okay.
I was a bit worried about buying privatly incase anything goes wrong etc no rights and stuff.
Will have a look at these now thankyou.
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Your mechanic is only partially correct. Most DSG boxes that fail have skipped fluid changes but not all, there's plenty of examples of fully dealer maintained cars out there which have went wrong including an old customer of mine and his Audi TT V6 which failed at less than 70,000 miles and landed him a £6k bill to replace it despite never having missed a service at the local main dealer. These are very complex gearboxes and not something you want on a budget car. I'd kick this idea if I were you. As a trader I won't touch them.
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Okay thanks does it not give no warning its going?
I am thinking now of getting a quote on this car and see if the warrenty cover it and if so keep it for a year. By which time id of saved around 5 thousand and part exchange this car to get a ford focus 1.6 / 2.0 2013 which has everything I need plus low milage. My original plan was this and to buy in January but after my old car being wrote off I had to rush and by a car with what I had now.
Would you say this is a good idea?
Just dont want the hassle of looking for cars again so soon. And there is just nothing I like within my budget unless I look at hyundais and I really dont like them, I can imagime the drive comfort is just not that nice plus they also seem a bit on the small side.
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"Okay thanks does it not give no warning its going?"
Not always, it could go pop next week or in three years. It's a high risk you don't need on a tight budget.
"I am thinking now of getting a quote on this car and see if the warrenty cover it and if so keep it for a year. By which time id of saved around 5 thousand and part exchange this car to get a ford focus 1.6 / 2.0 2013 which has everything I need plus low milage. My original plan was this and to buy in January but after my old car being wrote off I had to rush and by a car with what I had now.
Would you say this is a good idea?"
No it's a very bad idea. This gearbox is somewhat notorious in the trade and dealers value them accordingly. You'll be hammered when you try to trade in a DSG equipped 11yr old Leon with 80-90k up.
The Focus of this vintage wouldn't be a good idea either as they use Ford's even less reliable Powershift box. Don't touch with a barge pole!
Best bet is either spend the £5k you have now on a much simpler car or you can borrow from high street and supermarket banks from as low as 2.8% APR to buy something newer and more reliable now. This will cost a few hundred pounds in interest but your idea will cost you thousands in added depreciation by involving two lots of dealer prep costs plus profit and VAT on that profit.
As another £5k option near you I did spot this pre-Powershift Mk II Focus. Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170926966...7
Edited by SLO76 on 01/10/2017 at 23:17
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Small cheap autos are a minefield. Many manufacturers experimented with automated manual boxes to try and improve economy and reduce emissions but no one could make them reliable over the longterm.
Honda tried with i-shift and gave up (the Civic had a normal torque converter box from sometime in 2009 so watch it's not the older I-shift) Toyota tried with Multi Mode Transmission and again couldn't get it right, Ford also with Powershift which they're now giving up. Put simply it's too complex and will go wrong at some point in the cars life most likely during your ownership at this sort of value.
It's cheaper to spend a bit more to get a good car than to pour money into a bad one to fix it. Even if you have to borrow to do so I would if you simply must have an auto of this size. Plus the cars I've listed may be forced down by a little hard negotiation, especially the Hyundai which is overpriced for a private sale.
Secondary to this I'd look at main dealer part exchanges like the Civic instead of buying from a smaller dealer who will have bought it in at auction. If the last owner traded it in for another Honda it means they liked it. In fact it's the Civic I'd favour of the lot I've listed here. An approved used Honda that's been traded in for another Honda. Chain driven engine, torque converter gearbox and almost full main dealer history. It's all good. Though I'd be temped by the Hyundai if you can get it below £4,500. A cheeky offer of £4-£4.25k might even get it and you could buy a warranty if you must but they're rarely worth it.
Edited by SLO76 on 01/10/2017 at 16:54
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Admittedly have only skimmed throught the above but as I understand it you've bought a car (a used car for 5k with a DSG box) that's showing a fault and you've gone back to the seller and he's offered to refund but not to fix. The subsequent "shall I, shan't I?" sounds painfully drawn out.
First off, I do have a DSG equipped car, owned from new.
I, and most others here, are more than aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the aforesaid transmission.
I don't happen to think that 5k is a lot to pay for a car these days, especially one with that gearbox in it and especially one in which you want to rack a decent mileage.
I can't figure out why you're so uncertain about getting your money back, given all that's been said.
OK, it has to be automatic. Surely it's a plain as the nose on your face that you don't buy a used DSG without a substantial warranty for the next five years. It has been subject to SO MUCH publicity! It could cost you a fortune. I'm on borrowed time myself, it's got no warranty now. I'm only hanging on to it coz it's had a replacement clutch pack fitted under warranty and coz I drive it sympathetically knowing what's inside that expensive aluminium casting and how much a repair could cost ... and in the vague and uncertain hope that if it DID go wrong then Skoda might look sympathetically on me and contribute towards the repair as it has full dealer service records (admittedly I'm being ridiculously optomistic, but the dealer did say I could be in with half a chance).
Surely you know it has be either a torque converter box or, at a pinch, a CVT ... but not a twin clutch without a rock solid warranty.... and even with a warranty they could say it's your fault for wearing the clutch pack out and end up not paying out for a repair. At least with a torque converter there's less in there that they can blame you for.
Re. small cars with automatic boxes being a bad idea ... we've had this conversation before but it remains the case that Hyundai/Kia torque converter boxes may not be ideal but my i10 automatic runs like a sewing machine and the box (although not the last word in efficiency) changes like a dream every time and isn't known for failing very often. Just don't ask me what it does to the gallon, coz you really don't want to know.
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So many cars have dsg now especially when looking at leons my old leon im guessing was the old normal auto as it was a 04 plate.
All my others autos ive had had never had issues with the gear box always other things coil pack etc but gearbox always run smoothly admitly these were always cheap cars never paid more than 1.2 for them.
I orginally wanted to spend 8k but someone came and wrote my car off so had to buy one now instead of jan and i thought ok 5k should get me something reliable. However ive found there still isnt much choice. Only leons i could find were all dsg.
Its a tough because I dont know weather to just sort this and keep it for a year and then go for a 8k car which I could get and hopefully keep for years. Or take this back and spend 4k on something i dont really like or want and will still replace in a year or a buy a cheap car but then theres still a risk of having to spend money. I got lucky with my old car i know they are hard to come by especially in autos.
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You have been advised - by a number of us - to accept the refund and get rid
Keeping it is asking for trouble.
These DSG gearboxes are notorious for problems.
'SLO76' has told you, as clear as day, that as a trader he will not touch these cars. Too much potential for big bills.
And yet you are STILL considering keeping it.
.
You don't want advice - unless that advice is 'yes, it'll all be fine, you made the right choice, it's a good car'.
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No its just the hassle of looking for a car got so much going on right now. I had planned on keeping the car I bought now for 4 years, however after the issues and reading these comments I thought it would be a better idea to buy in a year when ill have a budget to get what I need and something that will last.
If i return this car then its either I get a old car 1000 pound max or a get a car that will more than likely have dsg so its weighing these up against this...
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No its just the hassle of looking for a car got so much going on right now. I had planned on keeping the car I bought now for 4 years, however after the issues and reading these comments I thought it would be a better idea to buy in a year when ill have a budget to get what I need and something that will last.
If i return this car then its either I get a old car 1000 pound max or a get a car that will more than likely have dsg so its weighing these up against this...
I'm not convinced a £8k DSG car will be inherently more reliable or less of a gamble than a £5k DSG car. In fact I'd take the £5k one on the basis that if it goes wrong I've lost less money!
The only DSG car I'd be 100% happy with is a new one under lease with a warranty.
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The code is detailed below. Doesn't sound anything too terrible to me and worst case would be a new solenoid and/or canister. Not an uncommon issue (although more common on PSA cars than VAG) and I can't see why any dealer would go running for the hills over it.
Sometimes if a dealer thinks a customer might be awkward they just want shot of you and offer a refund to minimise the hassle. Seems a bit odd for a fault like this though and they are right in that it may never come back. Sometimes a badly fitted fuel cap can do it.
If the car was a decent deal and you like it I'd be tempted to say persevere but I'd agree with the DSG comments above. I know that for every person who says they'll go pop at 60k there is another taxi driver who says they did 170k without issue but nonetheless they can and do go wrong and if they go really wrong will basically write the car off.
Just have a think about how much of a gamble you are prepeared to take before committing to a DSG long term because there is no escaping the fact that they are a gamble.
16825/P0441/001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect FlowPossible Symptoms
- Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) active
Possible Causes
- Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve (N80) faulty/jammed
- Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid Valve (N115) faulty/jammed
- Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Sealing faulty
- Pipes between Tank Breathing and Throttle Body leaky/blocked
Possible Solutions
- Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve (N80)
- Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid Valve (N115)
- Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister
- Check Pipes between Tank Breathing and Throttle Body
Special Notes
- When found in the NAR 1.8T Audi A4 1.8T check TSB 24-08-78 or 2010268/3 or Pass-Thru equivalent TSB
- When found in the NAR 1.8T VW Passat 1.8T check TSB 01-09-09 or 2005554 or Pass-Thru equivalent TSB
- Note: The Passat 26E5 or "R5" recall includes the same software update
- Make sure the quick release lines for the N80 valve and vacuum line to LDP are not crossed.
- This can also make the engine hard to start after filling up the fuel t
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With the utmost respect - did you read anything I wrote? Or anything that others have written? You've not acknowledged that you've understood the difference between twin clutch (also called dual clutch) transmissions .... of which DSG is one..... and the more "conventional" torque converter. Until you distinguish between the two you're in for a hard time.
You say that so many cars have DSG now when in fact the only cars that have DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) are those made by the group of manufacturers called VAG i.e. VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat. Ford do a dual clutch transmission called Powershift and other manufacturers also use dual clutch transmissions but torque converter transmissions ARE available but you need to check/ask/Google to find out which is and which isn't.
You've been advised to take yours back - but don't seem to want to take that advice.
Your other cars cost no more than 1.2. Presumably you mean £1200? If they were all automatic they'll almost certainly all have been torque converter (or "ordinary old fashioned automatic" if we care to reduce it to simple terms) hence they didn't go wrong.
I can't make it any plainer ... a twin clutch gearbox bought out of warranty and bought for the sort of money you're talking about, is a liability, a money pit, a bottomless pocket, a potential for major expense .... how much more do I need to emphasise the point?
Whatever you spend, and regardless of previous accidents or whatever other factors enter the equation, you need to source a good example of a mainstream, low tech, easily available, non premium manufacturer family hatchback or saloon and it needs the sort of automatic transmission that has been advised ... i.e. NOT a DSG (or a Powershift).
I've suggested that some Hyundai or Kia models fit the bill and someone with more patience might care to list all the others. But otherwise a bit of time on Google or a word in the ear of a genuine friend/colleague who actually and comprehensively understands these things will help you find one and might go with you when you buy.
I won't keep repeating myself because very often people ask this sort of question and get a load of good advice and suggestion and then we never hear back again.... so I wish you well in finding the right car at the right price.
EDIT. Forgot to emphasise ... I HAVE ONE OF THESE DSG's MYSELF. I love it. It drives really nicely (in my humble opinion) ... a few others don't agree on that point but most actual owners like the way they drive - but they don't like the bills that accrue when they go wrong. Maybe brand new ones have had the problems ironed out. I hope so coz I might buy another new one at some point ... but it will be under warranty .... yours won't be!
Edited by KB. on 01/10/2017 at 22:07
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I too am struggling to understand why the OP is still unclear of what to do here. This seems to be a classic case of an OP not actually wanting to take any advice, just wanting members to agree with what they want to do, in this case, fix the car.
Despite what vastly experienced members on the forum are saying, with regards to this type of gearbox?. I mean, really?, you have been offered a refund, which is a lot more than most people who have problems with DSG gearboxes on used cars. Take the money, learn by your mistake, move on.
No, a reliable replacement car of that size is not going to be as fast, but all that performance counts for precisely diddly squat when the car is broken down at the side of the road and you are faced with a 4 figure bill to fix it (again?).
Your realistic choices are either,
A, get a honda civic 1.8 auto (there are cheaper ones than the link SLO gave), or any of the other suggestions.
B, get a new DSG equipped car of your choice on a personal lease, that way any problems will be covered by the warranty during the 2 or 3 years you have the car for.
I'm also a bit unclear why you say you will have to get a £1k car if you don't fix the leon. Surely if you are getting a full refund, you will have the £5k you paid for it?.
Oh, and one other thing. 3.5 years ago my wife and I were looking at new cars. We took a test drive of a hyundai i30 and a seat leon. We chose the i30 (1.6 turbo diesel auto) as we both felt it more comfortable and refined with less road noise. In terms of space they were very evenly matched.
But, as has been said, we can only advise, at the end of the day it is your choice.
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"A, get a honda civic 1.8 auto (there are cheaper ones than the link SLO gave)"
There are but just watch you don't end up with the earlier I-shift automated manual box, it's horrid and not as robust as the later torque converter box as used in the example I listed. You will find them under £5k though but you need to be sure of what you're buying. Look at the spec and you'll see the emissions on the later car are higher than the i-shift equipped examples.
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"A, get a honda civic 1.8 auto (there are cheaper ones than the link SLO gave)" There are but just watch you don't end up with the earlier I-shift automated manual box, it's horrid and not as robust as the later torque converter box as used in the example I listed. You will find them under £5k though but you need to be sure of what you're buying. Look at the spec and you'll see the emissions on the later car are higher than the i-shift equipped examples.
Aye SLO, you are right, I was under the mistaken assumption that the i-shift was only on the smaller engines, like the 1.4.
It seems the torque converter auto's were reintroduced in around 2009. Looking at pictures on autotrader though, it is easy to spot the i-shift as it's gear selector looks kinda like a a manual gear lever, whereas the TQ auto has what can only be described as a 'stereotypical auto gear selector'.
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