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Many thanks guys, really appreciate your replies.
Cheers
Paul
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Hi all,
Let us define that there are 3 types of drop kerbs without going into the variations.
1 .. Those where the exit is on private land
2 .. Those that allow access for emergency vehicles.
3 .. Those business buildings where the drive is " the only access". for pedestrians as well as cars.
1 .. The police will not get involved in the first one, and will only turn up to keep the peace, since it is private land it is a civil matter, they will only get involved if a crime is about to be commited. If it is going onto a public road then you have no legal right to get them to move, you do not own the street only the drive, the exception to this rule is where a white line is painted by the council or highways people across the exit, tehn they will do you for stopping os a solid white line, as the highway code states you must not cross or straddle a solid white line.
2 .. Does not apply in this case, have a disabled person does not make it emergency access, that terminology is only for the emergency services, no one else.
3 .. It is illegal to block access only because people will need to use it in case of an emergency evacuation, in this case the police can tow your car away, but only if there is no other accces/exit by pedestrians.
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"... you do not own the street only the drive..." - True, but not relevant. Nor does it matter what the purpose of the dropped kerb is.
"Under the The Highway Code drivers are advised that: ‘Except when forced to do so by stationary traffic, do not stop or park: where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles, or where it would obstruct cyclists or in front of an entrance to a property’.
The Traffic Management Act 2004 grants councils the power to enforce contravention of this.
Steve Gooding, director of the RAC Foundation, said: ‘The Highway Code is clear. You must not park where you block the entrance to a property or the kerb has been lowered to allow wheelchair access."
(from tinyurl.com/y8p9hnhs which reports a case where a traffic warden stuck a notice on the screen of a car parked across a dropped kerb. Bold is mine.)
It is quite clear that parking across a dropped kerb which gives a homeowner access to his property is an offence.
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Actually its not, the only time it is an offene is if there is a solid white line which directly contravenes a specific rule in the highway code of crossing ( no overtaking ) or straddling ( parking/stopping on it ) a solid white libe.
You can ask people to move but you have no right under highway law to get them to move, as pointed out it is a PUBLIC highway, for use by the public and not private use.
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Actually its not, the only time it is an offene is if there is a solid white line which directly contravenes a specific rule in the highway code of crossing ( no overtaking ) or straddling ( parking/stopping on it ) a solid white libe.
You can ask people to move but you have no right under highway law to get them to move, as pointed out it is a PUBLIC highway, for use by the public and not private use.
Under the RTA, obstruction is an offence - but that can only be dealt with by a police officer.
There is no right to park on the public highway, except in designated parking bays.
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"Actually its not..."
So the Highway Code is wrong?
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No, just your interpretation of it.
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I think you'd better read my post higher up. The relevant bit is: "Except when forced to do so by stationary traffic, do not stop or park: where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles, or where it would obstruct cyclists or in front of an entrance to a property’."
Not much room for "interpretation" there.
Edited by FP on 04/09/2017 at 18:56
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"It is quite clear that parking across a dropped kerb which gives a homeowner access to his property is an offence."
I did read your post higher up, and it's not an offence. It may be disrespectful, rude and antisocial but it is not in the sense you imply an offence. Offensive yes, an offence no.
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"It is quite clear that parking across a dropped kerb which gives a homeowner access to his property is an offence." I did read your post higher up, and it's not an offence. It may be disrespectful, rude and antisocial but it is not in the sense you imply an offence. Offensive yes, an offence no.
As I posted upthread:-
Under the RTA, obstruction is an offence - but that can only be dealt with by a police officer.
There is no right to park on the public highway, except in designated parking bays.
In addition there are some parts of the UK, including London, where parking against a dropped kerb is specifically an offence.
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"I did read your post higher up, and it's not an offence."
The Highway Code, from which I quoted, says, "... do not stop or park: where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles, or where it would obstruct cyclists or in front of an entrance to a property."
I accept that the words "do not" are in fact advisory in the HC, as opposed to "must not".
However, if a vehicle is obstructing the entrance to a property as I said above, "The Traffic Management Act 2004 grants councils the power to enforce contravention of this."
It seems to me this is splitting hairs. If it's not technically a legal offence to park across someone's drive, it is a legal offence to obstruct someone's drive, which is contrary to regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, which deals specifically with obstruction.
Edited by FP on 04/09/2017 at 21:58
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However, if a vehicle is obstructing the entrance to a property as I said above, "The Traffic Management Act 2004 grants councils the power to enforce contravention of this."
It seems to me this is splitting hairs. If it's not technically a legal offence to park across someone's drive, it is a legal offence to obstruct someone's drive, which is contrary to regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, which deals specifically with obstruction.
Councils don't have powers under Traffic Management Act 2004 automatically. They need to apply to the Dept for Transport for approval of the arrangements including adjudication of disputes etc. That is complex and time consuming process and unless made at same time as other TMA powers like Bus Lane and minor moving traffic (prohibited turns etc) it won't be worthwhile outside major connurbations.
Obstruction etc is fine but obstructee needs to find a Copper to ticket the offence and then there is hook/wriggle room for obstructor.
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I thought there was some crazy rule to the effect that blocking a car from leaving a driveway was obstruction but preventing access was not.
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As a believer in Karma, I would not be surprised if a car blocking my driveway suffered a puncture from a screw carelessly discarded by one of the builders usually working in our street. :-)
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I had this recently with the white lines painted around the end of our road, which is a T shaped close. I am on the top of the T on the left as you look at it.
That section of road has a huge U shaped white lines and dropped kerbs for me to access my drive, and 3 neighbours to access their garages. Yesterday another neighbour double parked his LWB van at the side of his own car which was also parked partly in front of my garden. The double parked vehicle, left there from the early hours of the morning till about 9.30 completely obstructed my access and that of 2 of the other neighbours.
I happened to be in the main road a bit afterwards and there was a nice traffic warden who after a short dicussion came along with his camera car, did not stop.. drove out and the "offender" will receive a ticket when the footage is uploaded. A little while later, another caera car drove in and out... obviously confirming it.
Also gave me a direct phone number for the office which is open till 10 pm.
It is an offence to park in front of or on a blocked kerb preventing access WITH or WITHOUT the white lines.
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I had this recently with the white lines painted around the end of our road, which is a T shaped close. I am on the top of the T on the left as you look at it.
That section of road has a huge U shaped white lines and dropped kerbs for me to access my drive, and 3 neighbours to access their garages. Yesterday another neighbour double parked his LWB van at the side of his own car which was also parked partly in front of my garden. The double parked vehicle, left there from the early hours of the morning till about 9.30 completely obstructed my access and that of 2 of the other neighbours.
I happened to be in the main road a bit afterwards and there was a nice traffic warden who after a short dicussion came along with his camera car, did not stop.. drove out and the "offender" will receive a ticket when the footage is uploaded. A little while later, another caera car drove in and out... obviously confirming it.
Also gave me a direct phone number for the office which is open till 10 pm.
It is an offence to park in front of or on a blocked kerb preventing access WITH or WITHOUT the white lines.
It's only a specific offence in certain municipal areas where it has a fixed penalty and can be dealt with by traffic wardens, community wardens, PCSOs and camera cars - elsewhere, it relies on the RTA offence of obstruction which can only be dealt with by a police officer.
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