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For years I used Copper Anti Seize on brakes then after all the bad press I purchased Aluminium Anti Seize but before I got around to using any of it on my brakes I have now purchased Ceramic Grease..
is there any reason not to use Aluminium Anti Seize?
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The proper red brake grease is the stuff to use, if that's the same as ceramic grease carry on.
Problem with coppaslip it does attack rubber seals and dust covers, i have no idea what the AAS stuff will do to them or if it's compatible with brake fluid should it come in contact.
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The proper red brake grease is the stuff to use, if that's the same as ceramic grease carry on.
Problem with coppaslip it does attack rubber seals and dust covers, i have no idea what the AAS stuff will do to them or if it's compatible with brake fluid should it come in contact.
Would I be correct in assuming red grease is for piston / seal contact? I was using coppaslip on metal to metal contact areas until I read that it dries out. I just wondered if the aluminium version of this will do the same. I had an idea that it may have once been specified by some one like Audi although that may have been somebody quoting personal opinion as fact.
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As well as prising back the piston dust seals and slipping some around the piston with a cotton bud during brake service, i use the red grease on sliders too because it doesn't affect the rubber boots of pin type sliders.
Can't help you with the other type.
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I know back in the dark ages when I had my Hillman, the Rootes workshop manual used to specify white lithium grease for the contact patches on the drum brakes.
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I know back in the dark ages when I had my Hillman, the Rootes workshop manual used to specify white lithium grease for the contact patches on the drum brakes.
Oh yes I remember those days when you would pull out the wheel bearings during a service and dunk them in a can of petrol with bare hands. Usually followed by a blast of air into the drums sending a cloud of dust everywhere. Never did understand what that big "A" sticker on the boxes of shoes stood for.
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<< I was using coppaslip on metal to metal contact areas until I read that it dries out. I just wondered if the aluminium version of this will do the same. >>
I'm no expert in brake technology, but I would assume that anything 'wet' used in braking areas will soon 'dry out' due to the heat generated there. The point of using a different metal between surfaces which are commonly ferrous is to provide a weaker interface which is more easily separated than (say) a rusty steel nut on a steel bolt ? Copper oxidises less readily than ferrous metal too.
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<< I was using coppaslip on metal to metal contact areas until I read that it dries out. I just wondered if the aluminium version of this will do the same. >>
I'm no expert in brake technology, but I would assume that anything 'wet' used in braking areas will soon 'dry out' due to the heat generated there. The point of using a different metal between surfaces which are commonly ferrous is to provide a weaker interface which is more easily separated than (say) a rusty steel nut on a steel bolt ? Copper oxidises less readily than ferrous metal too.
Coppaslip was very good on exhaust manifold studs when the manufacturer didn't fit brass nuts, always used it when re-assembling the manifold. It was always used on turbine housing studs too, so well capable of coping with brake caliper temperatures.
Edited by galileo on 12/05/2017 at 14:55
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Coppaslip was very good on exhaust manifold studs when the manufacturer didn't fit brass nuts, always used it when re-assembling the manifold. It was always used on turbine housing studs too, so well capable of coping with brake caliper temperatures.
I think that is part of the joy of using it on steel parts that get hot, the carrier fluid might dry out but, leaves a copper layer to stop parts rusting together and stops oscillation between pad backplates and other brake components from creating noise.
For what it's worth, car manufacturers have gone to using copper plated steel nuts on exhaust parts now and they are a pain to get off. Last time I had to drop the whole exhaust by cutting it in suitable places so that I could get the rusted nuts off the DPF by grinding them away until I could unwrap the remains of them off the studs in the DPF flange. Assembly was done with a good helping of copper grease on all the threads. and new nuts.
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Think the aluminium anti-seze is likely to have similar mineral oil base to coppaslip, so it'd probably be contra-indicated for contact with rubber.
Its advantage is that aluminium is higher in the electrochemical series so its unlikely to cause electrochemical corrosion, which is a (probably largely theoretical) snag with copper.
I have some aluminium anti-seize I bought in Japan, (can't find anything here in Taiwan) so it'd be even harder to find out what is in it. I use it where the brake pad ears rest on the stainless steel caliper guides. I also make my own by rubbing aluminium in grease.
On the slider pins I use Japanese silicon grease with aluminium rubbed into it and PTFE thread seal tape. On the pistons I've used silicon grease but I have some red rubber stuff I'll probably use next time I strip them.
I bought some Bendix Ceramlube in Australia but it went missing in transit. IIRC it was pretty much a "universal" brake lube and could be used anywhere.
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Car makers should have been using stainless steel studs and bolts on exhaust manifolds and system right up to the first normal silencer.
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Just came across this. I'm over 3 years late but what the hell. I have some experience of using some of these. I've been working on motorbikes for over 30 years (as a tinkerer) but I am a metallurgist by profession and have worked in automotive, aerospace and oil & gas industries. When I started on bikes, it seemed an accepted fact to use copper grease (e.g. Copaslip, made by Molyslip) on bolts on motorbikes and I found my brake pins were very susceptible to seizing up (steel pin into an aluminium alloy caliper - whenever I say aluminium from now on, I mean an aluminium-based alloy). I started using copaslip and the next time I came to undo the (new replacement) bolts they were even worse. I then heard about Alumslip (made by the same folks). No more issues. I've since seen it happen elsewhere, so I believe there is an element of galvanic corrosion. Note that the brake pins carry the caliper, they are not anywhere near the friction surfaces, and on my bike at least, they dont get crazy hot (Im not VR46). So my present practice is to only use copaslip on steel to steel applications. Where I have steel (including SS) bolts going into aluminium, I always use Alumslip. No issues. Definetly use some sort of anti-seize such as Alumslip on stainless bolts as the material is prone to galling, automotive steel bolts are usually zinc plate which does not have this problem. For spark plugs into an aluminium head; I would definetly use Alumslip and not copaslip. The copper itslef has bearing properties and forms a film, so MOST of the time, it will be fine if the corrosion is kept at bay, e.g. on a greasy oily block, however, if corrosion starts to get down into the nooks and crannies, copaslip will give you issues. Also, remember, if you put any kind of lubricating media on a bolt thread, it will reduce the friction co-efficient so the torque required to achieve the same preload is less. In other words, the specified torque figures should be based on either dry or lubricated threads, so going from one to the other, you should change the torque values. I don't think I've ever seen this explained in a Haynes manual; if your using a lube and its not specified that you need to, just use a couple ftlbs less, or just be b***** careful when you torque it. I'm not sure if I explained this very well but its getting late. Someone mentioned red grease; I would know that as red rubber grease and its specifically for using at the rubber/metal interface to protect the rubber. I would not use it on metal to metal interfaces.
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Someone mentioned red grease; I would know that as red rubber grease and its specifically for using at the rubber/metal interface to protect the rubber. I would not use it on metal to metal interfaces.
I have a small tube of 'Eurobrake' brake grease which came with some components many years ago. It's white, not red, and it doesn't say what it's made of. A little goes a long way. And yes, never lubricate wheel bolts or spark plugs. Just clean them (bolts, not plugs) with a wire brush. And if changing plugs, just before the old plug is 'unthreaded' and removed, blow hard down a length of narrow tubing to blow out any dislodged debris which might fall into the combustion chamber. Bet garages don't do this during a 'service'.
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Latterly I've stopped using my irreplacable aluslip on brake sliders and pad ears and wrap the pad ears in PTFE thread tape (which is readily available in Taiwan) instead. Seems OK so far.though it will presumably wear away in the contact area.
IF I used shims I might wrap them in PTFE too, but I don't, so I havnt.
I used to use the thread tape on wheel studs, in combination with cheapo Taiwanese chassis grease, breaking the "never lubricate wheel bolts"rule in two different ways. THE HORROR.
Lately I use polythene sheet from the plastic bags that my breakfast steamed roll comes in, along with cheapo Taiwanese chassis grease, breaking the "never lubricate wheel bolts" rule in a third way. (THE HORROR.)
I THINK the polythene MAY have a thread-lock effect, nylock stylee, though I'm not sure how one could verify that.
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Latterly I've stopped using my irreplacable aluslip on brake sliders and pad ears and wrap the pad ears in PTFE thread tape (which is readily available in Taiwan) instead. Seems OK so far.though it will presumably wear away in the contact area.
IF I used shims I might wrap them in PTFE too, but I don't, so I havnt.
I used to use the thread tape on wheel studs, in combination with cheapo Taiwanese chassis grease, breaking the "never lubricate wheel bolts"rule in two different ways. THE HORROR.
Lately I use polythene sheet from the plastic bags that my breakfast steamed roll comes in, along with cheapo Taiwanese chassis grease, breaking the "never lubricate wheel bolts" rule in a third way. (THE HORROR.)
I THINK the polythene MAY have a thread-lock effect, nylock stylee, though I'm not sure how one could verify that.
Ed, your many and varied experiments remind me of a biography of Thomas Edison I read long ago. He tried 99 different materials for light-bulb filaments before hitting on carbonised cotton thread. (I'm sure you knew that anyway).
You show the same indomitable perseverance in spite of all difficulties, I look forward to your entertaining contributions
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Well thanks. Sometimes I screw up though.
That sunflower-oil-as-tyre-treatment thing....
seemed a good idea at the time.
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Bit OT, but another automotive use for small plastic bags.
The Accord takes unreachable engine spaces to the next level, though I daresay newer cars are worse.
Given a nut to fit in a difficult to reach spot where if dropped it would be gone, I put it in a small plastic bag. The thread could still be engaged through the plastic and, once started, the bag could be torn free, but the chances of losing the nut, while not eliminated, were much reduced.
If using a socket the plastic can help it grip the nut, The bag can be wrapped around the socket extension, and can render a cheapo universal swivel joint less floppy.
Only started doing this today and I'd think there'll be situations (e.g. difficult to engage thread, wind) where it won't work, but it seemed potentially sometimes useful.
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Bit OT, but another automotive use for small plastic bags.
The Accord takes unreachable engine spaces to the next level, though I daresay newer cars are worse.
Given a nut to fit in a difficult to reach spot where if dropped it would be gone, I put it in a small plastic bag. The thread could still be engaged through the plastic and, once started, the bag could be torn free, but the chances of losing the nut, while not eliminated, were much reduced.
If using a socket the plastic can help it grip the nut, The bag can be wrapped around the socket extension, and can render a cheapo universal swivel joint less floppy.
Only started doing this today and I'd think there'll be situations (e.g. difficult to engage thread, wind) where it won't work, but it seemed potentially sometimes useful.
Apply for a patent and sell your plastic bags for inflated prices on eBay? A most ingenious idea, one of your best!
Edited by galileo on 01/08/2020 at 23:05
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And if changing plugs, just before the old plug is 'unthreaded' and removed, blow hard down a length of narrow tubing to blow out any dislodged debris which might fall into the combustion chamber. Bet garages don't do this during a 'service'.
I do that, either by mouth or using a bicycle pump. Compressed air would be better but I don't have that (yet?). I've thought of using a toy balloon but don't remember actually trying it.
I'm too stingy to buy "canned air"
In addition, if turning the engine over with the plugs out, say for a compression test, on the Skywing I use a half-length of bubble tea straw (Bubble tea has chewy gelatinous balls in it, about pea sized, a Taiwan favorite. This requires a heavier caliber straw to sook them up) in the plug hole, with tape wrapped around the end to form a conical insert.
I just did this on the 1997 Honda Accord, which (I suppose like most recentish cars), has plugs at the bottom of a tube. This requires a full length bubble tea straw.
Blowing by mouth or bicycle pump in that situation seems unlikely to be effective in getting debris out of the tube, but since the tube is nominally sealed there shouldn't be much.
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