Joining motorway. - angelcyn

HJ has not for the first time spoke about when joining a motorway, that people already on the M way should accomadate the joining traffic and move to the right to let them do so if possible, even when the joining vehicle "assumes" you will disappear into the ether having failed to signal adjust their speed or even bothered to look at what is coming from behind.

HJ is not quite right when he says the law has never changed, it hasn't but it does not accomadate his version of what should happen in the Highway Code, which states.......

Rule 259

Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

  • give priority to traffic already on the motorway
  • check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
  • not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
  • stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
  • remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

The onus being on the car joining to be the one that adapts ?

That doesn't mean not being a decent and sensible driver when the occasion demands, but it does not mean that in all situations as many drivers "assume" now when joining that the motorway traffic should accomadate them which is what causes the problems.

Joining motorway. - Smileyman

"give priority to traffic already on the motorway" (or any other similar type road)

message needs to be shared more often ... far too often motorists seem to think they have priority when in fact they don't ... when the vehicle cannot move to the right (eg being overtaken) .... the joining vehicle needs to slow down and wait for a free road space

Joining motorway. - Bolt

<the joining vehicle needs to slow down and wait for a free road space>

There are times when cars will not let anyone in, in the case of artics, ie, several in a row, (happens a lot) they will not allow a car inbetween them

there are also times when cars try to get in the flow doing the same speed- 40mph (example) -they left previous road doing and will not speed up to get in the flow, which I find more annoying than those that go above speed limit.

Joining motorway. - malct

I got caught out when joining the motorway at knutsford service's, it was just breaking dawn and visabilty was not that good, the motorway had roadworks so traffic was using the hard shoulder and their was a 50 mph speed limit.

When i coming down the slip road gaining speed , i was the looking for a gap in the traffic but with lorry's driving bumper to bumper, i had to break hard due to coming to the end of the slip road, so i was sat at the end of the slip road in no man's land, i did think about reversing back, and taking another run at it, but realised that it was against the law, so after what seems a long time, a gap appeared and i was able to join the motorway, i have to say that it was scary

Joining motorway. - RT

The road markings on a motorway are such that joinging traffic MUST give way to traffic already in the running lane. There is no debate, the law is clear.

I was taught to accelerate to 60 in the slip road and then adjust my speed up OR down to merge into existing traffic, stopping if necessary.

It's courteous for traffic already in the running lane to move over if possible - but from experience when towing a caravan, it's often not possible for joining traffic to know if there's traffic in outer lanes preventing the vehicle in lane one from moving out.

Joining motorway. - sandy56

Correct. The driver joinging the motorway must adjust his speed to safely fit into the available spaces. He does NOT have priority.

Joining motorway. - bathtub tom

M1 J10 Northbound used to have a notoriously short slip for joining traffic.

I recall joininging it once in a Standard 10 and using the hard shoulder to merge. FIL on board, maintained I should have stopped at the give way and waited for a gap!

Joining motorway. - Andrew-T

.... FIL on board, maintained I should have stopped at the give way and waited for a gap!

I once accompanied an older driver on the newly-opened M62 who did just that - made no sense to me at the time, but the traffic would have been much lighter than it is now.

Joining motorway. - gordonbennet

What? use some of that 200+hp by accelerating to a sensible speed, then by using thy noddle and eyes to merge safely without causing unecessary problems for traffic already on the motorway?

It'll never catch on.

Edited by gordonbennet on 04/04/2017 at 21:02

Joining motorway. - 72 dudes

I totally agree with angelcyn.

Some years ago I submitted a letter to the quarterly IAM publication I get on exactly this problem. It never got published which was quite annoying.

Sadly it's a reflection of the wider issue of an increasing lack of courtesey on our roads. Put this down to over-crowding, the pressures of work, trying to get to the next appointment on time or just a breakdown of civility!

I've learned to read that a car joining a dual carriageway or motorway with a flashing right indicator usually does not mean "I wish to join the main road", but "I'm here, get the f*** out my way".

Joining motorway. - Andrew-T

I've learned to read that a car joining a dual carriageway or motorway with a flashing right indicator usually does not mean "I wish to join the main road", but "I'm here, get the f*** out my way".

Absolutely. There's no real point indicating while joining a M'way, as your intentions are clear to all (you have no choice), unless you are planning to shoot straight into the fast lane, as many drivers of (mostly German-made) cars commonly do.

Joining motorway. - Engineer Andy

Yes and no - I find that indicating just gets people's attention that bit more - its not always obvious (to many drivers) that those emerging from the slip lane will have to merge into the left-hand lane of the main road.

All too often people joining such roads have to slam on the anchors because nobody on the motorway wants to give anyone any room (people driver way too close to one another these days - yes, I know its because many believe another driver will drop into the space left), but it can (and does) cause accidents, particularly if the idiots who designed the junction decided to make the slip-on two lane and not just one (but wide enough for overtaking of really slow vehicles). Personally speaking, all slip-off and ons should have their own lane to filter off/on, and should be a single lane to discourage 'stacking' as happens at most of them nowadays.

Locally to me, the slip roads on the A1 at Stevenage are classic examples of really bad road design (never mind the berks who thought of reducing the A1 at Welwyn Garden City through to the north of Stevenage from 3 lanes to 2, just when the traffic is getting heavier...I think I've been lucky on several occasions not to have been involved in accidents in that area due to the poor road design and inconsiderate driving of other road users around the junctions. Things get so bad on some days (without accidents) that many people actually divert through Stevenage and the country lanes around to bypass the A1, and regulars in that area know how bad it can get.

Joining motorway. - Smileyman

I got caught out when joining the motorway at knutsford service's, it was just breaking dawn and visabilty was not that good, the motorway had roadworks so traffic was using the hard shoulder and their was a 50 mph speed limit.

When i coming down the slip road gaining speed , i was the looking for a gap in the traffic but with lorry's driving bumper to bumper, i had to break hard due to coming to the end of the slip road, so i was sat at the end of the slip road in no man's land, i did think about reversing back, and taking another run at it, but realised that it was against the law, so after what seems a long time, a gap appeared and i was able to join the motorway, i have to say that it was scary

I guess next time you'll look for the gap before starting to accelerate down the slip road - work on the basis you cannot join until the gap is there! (I do understsand the problem, was at these services 2 weeks ago)

Edited by Smileyman on 04/04/2017 at 22:45

Joining motorway. - Ethan Edwards

Having right on your side is nice.

Being on a motor bike or in a tiny car and having this disagreement with a Artic is something else. That's Realpolitik for you.

You may well be in the right but real world you'll slow up or move out or get squished.

But making others move over when they have right of way means two things

One your a pig and you lack good manners.

Joining motorway. - glidermania

What!? What terrible driving and what a terrible attitude that's all too prevalent amongts drivers joining a motorway.

The HC is clear. You should be prepared to stop on the slip road if you're unable to join not reverse back and 'have another go'!

Joining motorway. - Manatee

To put the responsibility completely on the joiner is missing the point that there is something that the lane one drivers on the major road can and should always do to facilitate merging.

That is to increase separation at junctions to leave enough space for a vehicle doing the same speed to merge.

Nose to tail traffic in lane one ultimately means joining traffic either forces its way in, or somebody stops on the slip road. Both of those scenarios are very dangerous.

Joining motorway. - RT

To put the responsibility completely on the joiner is missing the point that there is something that the lane one drivers on the major road can and should always do to facilitate merging.

That is to increase separation at junctions to leave enough space for a vehicle doing the same speed to merge.

Nose to tail traffic in lane one ultimately means joining traffic either forces its way in, or somebody stops on the slip road. Both of those scenarios are very dangerous.

Responsibility is absolute - yes, everyone should be considerate, everyone should leave big enough gaps but busy motorways aren't always like that.

Part of the issue is congestion - even when drivers in lane 1 leave the proper gap, joining traffic then adjusts it's gaps - so the traffic not yet even at the junction gets slowed or stopped.

Even on 3-lane motorways where lane 3 appears to be clear, there are a number of classes of vehicles banned from lane 3 so can't move out from lane 2 to let traffic in lane 1 move over to allow joiners - and I suspect most drivers don't know what those classes of vehicles are - ANY vehicle over 3.5 tons fitted with a 56mph limiter and any towing vehicle is banned from the outside lane of a motorway with 3 or more running lanes.

Joining motorway. - veryoldbear

At least true motorways have a reasaonable length of slip road. Some dual carriageways like the 2-lane A34 here in Occupied North Berkshire have tiny slip roads with *** visibility. It's an aboslute swine to get enough speed to join particularly when traffic is heavy. Accidenst are common (like every Friday night)

Joining motorway. - RT

At least true motorways have a reasaonable length of slip road. Some dual carriageways like the 2-lane A34 here in Occupied North Berkshire have tiny slip roads with *** visibility. It's an aboslute swine to get enough speed to join particularly when traffic is heavy. Accidenst are common (like every Friday night)

it's usually geography/terrain that restricts slip road length - there are one or two bad motorway slips, some barely better than a T-junction.

Joining motorway. - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I have been on motorways solid with traffic and no room to manoeuvre in order to accomodate traffic joining. On those few occasions I just held my hand on the horn and prayed they would stop. They did. I generally accomodate traffic joining a motorway.

Joining motorway. - Engineer Andy

I have been on motorways solid with traffic and no room to manoeuvre in order to accomodate traffic joining. On those few occasions I just held my hand on the horn and prayed they would stop. They did. I generally accomodate traffic joining a motorway.

If the road is 'solid' with traffic, then you/they should be going slow enough to not worry about vehicles merging slowly, if not, you're driving too close to the vehicle in front, and you/they should back off to leave sufficient room for you to be able to brake safely if the one in front carries out an emergency stop, therefore you should be able to back off slightly to let traffic (one only) merge in turn to your lane.

Its the speed merchants who barrel down the slip-ons much faster than the traffic on the motorway when there's slow-moving traffic that are the ones we should all be wary of, or those who don't look until they reach the divider between the slip-on and motorway and are driving inappropriately.

Joining motorway. - alan1302

I have been on motorways solid with traffic and no room to manoeuvre in order to accomodate traffic joining. On those few occasions I just held my hand on the horn and prayed they would stop. They did. I generally accomodate traffic joining a motorway.

If a car was coming down the slipway with their horn blasting away I'd be thinking 'what an idiot - I'll let them in front so I can keep an eye on them'!

Joining motorway. - SteVee

I think GWS was already on the motorway - I'd assumed in a truck; and was using his horn to say that there was no more room; He'd probably already let at least one car in and all the space had gone. I don't know how HGV drivers have the patience to deal with car drivers.

When I'm joining, I usually leave a bit more space in front of me in case they stop.

It can be difficult to spot that a vehicle already on the motorway is giving you the space to join

Joining motorway. - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I was in my car in the LH lane with solid traffic to my right and with solid queues of cars close ahead and behind. There was no scope to slow down or move right. I felt I would have been tail ended if I'd slowed down and precipitated a mass pile up. I'd little time to do anything apart from giving a blast of the horn to the driver who would have rammed me in the side if they had not stopped on the slip road. I otherwise cooperate with drivers joining the motorway by slowing down or moving over to another lane. A scary day.

Joining motorway. - argybargy

A little while ago I nearly fell badly foul of the refusal of some motorists to deviate from their god given right to sit tight on the inside lane when passing slip roads.

I was joining the 2-lane A55 when a van towing a caravan, despite having oodles of time to move to the middle lane and let me join the carriageway, steadfastly refused to shift and I had to slam on, having foolishly anticipated that he would do the sensible thing and move over.

As my wife often says, and this axiom applies to driving just as much as anything else, don't ever "assume" because it "makes an ass of u and me".

Joining motorway. - gordonbennet

Argybargy, i've been in the position of that caravan many a time, but in my lorry, and there might be valid reason i can't pull over, ie vehicles already alongside or approaching the blind side or developing traffic the other side of me you can't see.

Indeed some lorry drivers due to what i shall try to explain will no longer pull over at all, for other lorries included :

not suggesting this is you but, most lorry drivers despite what is said about them go along with a decent travelling distance in front, if you come up the slip road beside a lorry the fastest it can be going is 55mph give or take a couple, most cars can easily accelerate to clear the front of that lorry whilst on the acceration lane, and most people whilst they are stil on the slip road will have been judging the situation and know where to aim for.

Most lorry drivers are very happy for competent car drivers to do this, you might even find a helpful flash from the lorry once you're in front of him and looking to get out into the middle lane and up to speed when a suitable space to do so is there if the lorry now behind is blocking your view somewhat, if a car driver shows themselves competent and not going to mess the lorry driver about most will assist them on their way gladly, it benefits all of us.

The reason many lorry drivers have stopped doing this is because so many other drivers, including sadly an increasing number of attendants of lorry steering wheels, then accelerate to the speed of the lorry itself and leave him sitting out in the next lane unable to go anywhere, so they've stopped giving idiots the opportunity to do this to them.

Some drivers also by sheer ignorance and lack of basic manners, remember those traits?, fail to acknowledge common courtesies of other motorists, so thank the ignorant horde for the general attitude of every man for himself, we're all losers for this lack of courtesy, it's only the thickos can't see it.

As i said i don't for one moment think that i'm suggestting you are one of the blinkered ones who seem incapable of increasing/decreasing speed to merge and then behave reasonably, but there is a hell of large ad increasing minority of berks out there who manage to cause complete mayhem on our roads just by the changing of a lane.

Joining motorway. - diddy1234

A lot of drivers do not realise that they CAN use the hard shoulder if they run out of the joining run on. I have had to do this a couple of times due to a short run on and a couple of drivers already on the motorway that could not move over.

one time I had a police car behind me (also joining the motorway) and we both had to use the hard shoulder when joining the mnotorway. I had wondered if I would get pulled for it but I didn't.

on reflection, it was the sensible thing to do when building up speed.

The short motoroway run on section in question is :-

www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Stevenage/@51.8890289,...n

Joining motorway. - Engineer Andy

A lot of drivers do not realise that they CAN use the hard shoulder if they run out of the joining run on. I have had to do this a couple of times due to a short run on and a couple of drivers already on the motorway that could not move over.

one time I had a police car behind me (also joining the motorway) and we both had to use the hard shoulder when joining the mnotorway. I had wondered if I would get pulled for it but I didn't.

on reflection, it was the sensible thing to do when building up speed.

The short motoroway run on section in question is :-

www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Stevenage/@51.8890289,...n

That's exactly the same junction I've had problems with (one of them), going northbound. I'll have a look at the HC to so what it says about using the hard shoulder, though I would note that as a regular user of that stretch of the A1 (until recently - I quit my job a fortnight ago so don't need to use it in the rush hour, for the moment) that the hard shoulder between Stevenage North (J8) and South (J7) is littered with debris and has large sections that are very poorly maintained, which may induce a flat tyre or even a blow out - not something I would wish on anyone trying to accelerate to re-join a 70+mph road.

Joining motorway. - RT

A little while ago I nearly fell badly foul of the refusal of some motorists to deviate from their god given right to sit tight on the inside lane when passing slip roads.

I was joining the 2-lane A55 when a van towing a caravan, despite having oodles of time to move to the middle lane and let me join the carriageway, steadfastly refused to shift and I had to slam on, having foolishly anticipated that he would do the sensible thing and move over.

As my wife often says, and this axiom applies to driving just as much as anything else, don't ever "assume" because it "makes an ass of u and me".

As a caravan is limited to 60, why was it not possible to accelerate up to 70 and join safely in front of it - or slow down and join safely after it.

You can't see through a caravan, or a truck, to know what's outside them preventing them from moving over.

Joining motorway. - Andrew-T

I was joining the 2-lane A55 when a van towing a caravan, despite having oodles of time to move to the middle lane and let me join the carriageway, steadfastly refused to shift and I had to slam on, having foolishly anticipated that he would do the sensible thing and move over.

argy - you have no right to expect any driver to move over, as traffic on the main road has priority. Many drivers (including me, often) wlll do so as a courtesy. But it is foolish to anticipate it as it may be impossible, as others have said. I have also had to resort to continuing on the hard shoulder until a gap appears.

Joining motorway. - glidermania

A little while ago I nearly fell badly foul of the refusal of some motorists to deviate from their god given right to sit tight on the inside lane when passing slip roads.

I was joining the 2-lane A55 when a van towing a caravan, despite having oodles of time to move to the middle lane and let me join the carriageway, steadfastly refused to shift and I had to slam on, having foolishly anticipated that he would do the sensible thing and move over.

Say what!? Please try reading the Highway Code before you cause an accident.

Edited by heliboy on 08/04/2017 at 14:10

Joining motorway. - FP

"Please try reading the Highway Code before you cause an accident."

Quite - but had there been an accident, it would have been your fault more than the other driver's. See the first post in this thread.

Edited by FP on 08/04/2017 at 17:11

Joining motorway. - Bromptonaut

I was joining the 2-lane A55 when a van towing a caravan, despite having oodles of time to move to the middle lane and let me join the carriageway, steadfastly refused to shift and I had to slam on, having foolishly anticipated that he would do the sensible thing and move over.

Say what!? Please try reading the Highway Code before you cause an accident.

At least three possibilites:

(a) He deliberately blocked you

(b) Something you couldn't/didn't see stopped him moving out

(c) He was in a bubble, not concentrating, and was oblivious to your plight.

The third is far more common then you'd imagine but whatever, it's the joiners responsibilty to identify a gap and tine their arrival at merge point to coincide.

Joining motorway. - malct

Totally agree