conditional offer fixed penalty

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:05
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

Is there a time limit within which a conditional offer fixed penalty must be issued after the alleged offence?

(edited for spelling mistake)

Edited by uk_geezer on 31/03/2017 at 12:06

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:12
conditional offer fixed penalty - RobJP

No, I don't believe there is.

The only requirement is that a NIP must be sent within 14 days of the alleged offence.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:27
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

It wasn't a NIP like in a speeding allegation.

In fact there is no mention of "notice" or "intended prosecution" on the letter.

It is headed in bold type "CONDITIONAL OFFER OF FIXED PENALTY".

My gut feeling is there is no time limit, but I am happy to be corrected if anyone knows different; otherwise I shall just have to pay it......

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:53
conditional offer fixed penalty - Bromptonaut

What is the offence and how long ago was it alleged to have been comitted?

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:56
conditional offer fixed penalty - Bromptonaut

Time limit appears to be 6 months:

www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure/fixed_penalty_not...p

But there may be caveats. Legal advice needed if trying to 'dodge the bullet' on basis of time limit.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 13:11
conditional offer fixed penalty - RT

Is there a possibility it's a scam?

For offences covered under the Road Traffic Act, either a NIP would have been issued to determine the driver - or - the driver stopped at the time of the alleged offence.

For parking offences in Decriminalised Areas, the registered keeper is liable - but that's not usually worded as a "Conditional Offer"

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 13:13
conditional offer fixed penalty - RT

No, I don't believe there is.

The only requirement is that a NIP must be sent within 14 days of the alleged offence.

Or the driver stopped by the police at the time - maybe also apply to accidents reported to the police

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 16:35
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

Sorry, I should have said in OP that I was stopped whilst trying to get my mobile phone to connect to my satnav for hands free use. That'll teach me.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 17:05
conditional offer fixed penalty - Avant

Was your car in motion while you were doing that?

I do hope not, as the sheer frustration which is the inevitable result of trying to impose the human will on mindless, obstinate electronics is probably a more dangerous distractor than most.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 17:25
conditional offer fixed penalty - RobJP

Sorry, I should have said in OP that I was stopped whilst trying to get my mobile phone to connect to my satnav for hands free use. That'll teach me.

Ah. In which case no need for a NIP to be issued, however I believe they have 6 months in which to institute proceedings.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 17:39
conditional offer fixed penalty - Dwight Van Driver

Attention drawn to this

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_...d

Mobile phone offence endorseable so fpn or provisional until Lic produced and then substantiated so one shoukld have IMHO been issued there and then.

Note if no response after 21 days for one issued they take to Court.

At the end of the day there seems to be no argument re issue ( unlike NOIP) as the place to do any contesting is at a hearing of the case at Mags Crt

Limitation on proceedings summary offence generally 6 months but certain traffic offences up to 3 years.

dvd

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 23:05
conditional offer fixed penalty - Middleman

Your question seems to have been answered but a bit of extra info:

Where a NIP is required it must be served on the Registered Keeper of the vehicle within 14 calendar days. It is deemed to have been served two working days after posting unless it can be proved to the contrary. There is no time limit on subsequent NIPs if the RK was not the driver.

A NIP is not a request for driver’s details. That is a Notice under S172 of the RTA. In practice the two are usually sent together.

There is no time limit to make a fixed penalty offer. However, as has been mentioned, court proceedings for most motoring offences must be commenced within 6 months. This means that FP offers are rarely issued more than about four months after the alleged offence (to allow time, if the offer is ignored or declined, for proceedings to be commenced).

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Mon 10 Apr 2017 14:56
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

Oh well, £200 and 6 points it is. Lesson learned.

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Mon 10 Apr 2017 16:49
conditional offer fixed penalty - Avant

If you were stationary, what was the offence?

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Mon 10 Apr 2017 17:07
conditional offer fixed penalty - Middleman

If you were stationary, what was the offence?

Where does it say he was stationary? By "I was stopped" I assume it means "I was stopped by the police". Even if he was stationary (say, at the traffic lights) he is still "driving" and the offence is complete.

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Tue 11 Apr 2017 00:40
conditional offer fixed penalty - Avant

Sorry - 'stopped' could indeed mean by the police. If the car was in motion, then indeed it was a fair cop, and like FP I salute the OP for coming back and saying so.

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Wed 12 Apr 2017 18:10
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

Again, for the avoidance of doubt, and to give everyone a good old laugh at what a complete pr*ck I was, my Wife had rang me and like a "good boy" I didn't answer. I wouldn't dream of using my phone whilst driving. But when it rang off I grabbed my phone and tried to get it to connect to my satnav for "hands free" use. I was then immediately aware that a big lorry which was overtaking me on the M6 was remaining side by side with me, and when I looked up into the passengers side there was a bloke videoing me. I thought to myself "what a weirdo", and the lorry drew away from me. Then a "boy racer" in a black BMW "cut me up" and his FOLLOW ME lights came on. We pulled into the services and had a "debate" about a few things, but we left on good terms, with me effectively giving him £200, and he being so kind as to give me 6 points.

The reason for the lorry was they had been driving about trying to catch truckers using their phones. Fair enough. 44 tonnes and all that. Poor old me was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and yes, BEING STUPID.

Lesson very harshly learned.

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Wed 12 Apr 2017 19:11
conditional offer fixed penalty - RT

Again, for the avoidance of doubt, and to give everyone a good old laugh at what a complete pr*ck I was, my Wife had rang me and like a "good boy" I didn't answer. I wouldn't dream of using my phone whilst driving. But when it rang off I grabbed my phone and tried to get it to connect to my satnav for "hands free" use. I was then immediately aware that a big lorry which was overtaking me on the M6 was remaining side by side with me, and when I looked up into the passengers side there was a bloke videoing me. I thought to myself "what a weirdo", and the lorry drew away from me. Then a "boy racer" in a black BMW "cut me up" and his FOLLOW ME lights came on. We pulled into the services and had a "debate" about a few things, but we left on good terms, with me effectively giving him £200, and he being so kind as to give me 6 points.

The reason for the lorry was they had been driving about trying to catch truckers using their phones. Fair enough. 44 tonnes and all that. Poor old me was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and yes, BEING STUPID.

Lesson very harshly learned.

You're not the first and won't be the last - I keep getting speeding tickets even though I genuinely never intend to exceed them, in two cases by not keeping up with frequent changes in limit.

I just wish police funding would allow more old-fashioned traffic patrols to deal with all the other numpties that can't be caught by technology.

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Tue 11 Apr 2017 10:36
conditional offer fixed penalty - daveyjp

A car does not need to be moving for the driver to be driving it and therefore be subject to Road Traffic offences - starting the engine is enough.

Edited by daveyjp on 11/04/2017 at 10:36

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Tue 11 Apr 2017 11:51
conditional offer fixed penalty - RobJP

A car does not need to be moving for the driver to be driving it and therefore be subject to Road Traffic offences - starting the engine is enough.

I recall a drink-driving case from a few years ago where the convicted person was asleep, in their parked car. The keys in their pocket (so not even in the ignition) butthem sleeping in the drivers seat being enough to get them convicted - being in the drivers seat was viewed by the courts as 'in control' of the vehicle.

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Tue 11 Apr 2017 23:25
conditional offer fixed penalty - Middleman

A car does not need to be moving for the driver to be driving it and therefore be subject to Road Traffic offences - starting the engine is enough.

I recall a drink-driving case from a few years ago where the convicted person was asleep, in their parked car. The keys in their pocket (so not even in the ignition) butthem sleeping in the drivers seat being enough to get them convicted - being in the drivers seat was viewed by the courts as 'in control' of the vehicle.

Yes there is a separate offence of being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the prescribed limit. There is a statutory defence if the defendant can prove "...that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.". It's not an easy defence to run.

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Mon 10 Apr 2017 21:45
conditional offer fixed penalty - FP

"Lesson learned."

It is to your credit that you returned to the forum to wind up the story, even when the outcome was not in your favour. Too often people take umbrage at what other posters put and are never seen again.

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Tue 11 Apr 2017 11:52
conditional offer fixed penalty - RobJP

"Lesson learned."

It is to your credit that you returned to the forum to wind up the story, even when the outcome was not in your favour. Too often people take umbrage at what other posters put and are never seen again.

Agreed - many thanks for coming back with the outcome.

This morning, driving to work, at least 3 HGVs that I passed the drivers were using handheld phones. All UK vehicles.

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Wed 12 Apr 2017 18:12
conditional offer fixed penalty - uk_geezer

Edit = deleted due to repeat posting...........

Edited by uk_geezer on 12/04/2017 at 18:15

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