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www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=188065
I've used it for years, have no intention of ever running a Diesel without Millers, i also overmaintain my vehicles, why? because i can.
When Diesels fail MOT's on smoke, its favourite to chuck a bottle of Forte fuel treatment in, give it an Italian tune up or three and resubmit it, its probably doing the same job as regular Millers, i prefer the regular Millers approach, but make your own mind up.
Snake oil?, not in my opinion, but others feel very differently so if you become a Millers user keep schtum or you'll find yourself joining me on register or summat..:)
I think adding Millers to standard Derv you are possibly getting the equivalent of premium fuel, but that's only my feeling and i am not a fuel engineer.
Edited by gordonbennet on 25/02/2017 at 15:53
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"I think adding Millers to standard Derv you are possibly getting the equivalent of premium fuel..."
Sort of. Millers is supposed to raise the cetane level. Standard diesel cetane is 48, premium 55. Millers may increase the cetane score by up to 4.
Millers also contains detergents. It would probably be difficult to quantify the difference between these and the detergents in branded fuels.
Having said that, I ran a Peugeot 306 HDi for over 100,000 miles on the cheapest fuel I could find, to which I added Millers, and had no fuel-related problems whatsoever. I got 53 or so mpg over the years I had it - measured by brim-to-brim on every fill-up during that time.
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I second GB's recommendation for Miller's; 30-odd years ago it was highly thought of by the diesel and turbo engineers and technicians at work, they believed it helped keep pistons/valves clean and was generally beneficial.
Can't say significant increase in power showed up on the test beds, but testing was usually to find the best match of turbo for an engine rather than see if additives made a difference.
One point is that the test engines were run on gas-oil,(i.e red diesel), so that may be why Miller's was thought necessary?
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I started using Millers regularly when sulphur, an excellent lubricant, started to be reduced in Derv, that would be mid to late 80's?.
A Cummins mechanic i knew then probably first suggested it, these industrial mechanics seemed to be of the opinion that smaller injection pumps (not the virtually indestructible things Cummins fitted) as found in car van and 4x4 Diesels were failing noticeably more often, and they considered it due to the lack of sulphur lube, Millers being a suitable replacement.
Thinking about it, my mate's Landrover 90 injection pump failed and it was that same Cummins mechanic who got it rebuilt for him and refitted it, he put the blame fairly and squarely at reduced sulphur was to blame, Millers recommended there too.
Interesting that Galileo's colleagues thought highly of it too, thats not like the opinion or anecdote of some kerbside cowboy (me), that's skilled engineer's talking.
No one's mentioned the adding of two stroke oil to Derv, it gets mentioned in lots of forums where many swear by it, smoother quieter running being the main benefit, and many talk of lubricant benefits too, what's the view on that folks.
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Many thanks for your replies. Seems mostly positive for Millers so I will try that , Regards , Mike
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No one's mentioned the adding of two stroke oil to Derv, it gets mentioned in lots of forums where many swear by it, smoother quieter running being the main benefit, and many talk of lubricant benefits too, what's the view on that folks.
I did a search on this and found a South African website where they had done lab tests on this and found it to be of little to no benefit compared to standard EN590 diesel.
www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-techni...p
I use Millers Diesel Ecomax in every tank of Diesel.
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Every handbook for all the cars I have owned have said one thing, do not use fuel and oil additives. Normally they go on to warn their use could mean the warranty is voided.
If additives were needed manufacturers would sell them at hugely inflated prices and make their use a condition of new car warranties. But they don't.
So save your money.
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Every handbook for all the cars I have owned have said one thing, do not use fuel and oil additives. Normally they go on to warn their use could mean the warranty is voided.
If additives were needed manufacturers would sell them at hugely inflated prices and make their use a condition of new car warranties. But they don't.
So save your money.
Erm ... BMW and Merc (to name but 2) do sell their own' official' diesel and petrol tank additives. I've seen them in a BMW dealership on a stand.
If you type 'bmw diesel additive' into a google search engine plenty of images of the 'official' cans will show up.
b***** expensive though, I seem to recall, compared to Millers
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Not totally relevant to turbo engines, but about 12 years ago I rented a Fiat Doblo passenger van with a NA diesel engine. It was sluggish, awful to drive and not very economical. I hammered that car using lots of high revs (once warm) and gradually cleared out its lungs. BY the end of teh rental it was much faster and much more economical.
If I have not been on the motorway for a while, I drive my cars in gear lower than I need to (about once a week for a few miles) so that the whole exhaust syetem gets a good blow through. Sometimes just driving it property and doing an Italian tune-up is enough, rather than buying additives.
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I'm a taxi driver and when I was inexperienced I thought diesel was diesel until the EGR valve went on my Vectra. First thing the mechanic dude asked me was where I filled up, asda I said. That's your problem right there he said. Also said he's sick of telling people to stear clear of supermarket fuels. The reason he claimed was supermarket fuels have not cought up with the demands of the modern diesel engines. 6 years on in taxing I totally agree. I now exclusively use shell v power. Compared to standard shell and BP my engine is quiter, no turbo lag, and I see a very noticble increase in MPG as as taxi driver that is everything to us. Also after over 100k I have never had any probs with the EGR or DPF. I put that down to v power and BP ultimate diesel. Most taxi drivers I know are all using the premium diesels. The ones that are not are the ones having issues. Hope this helps. Re additives, I use forte diesel cleaner. Very good stuff
Edited by Ciaran Taxi on 26/02/2017 at 21:28
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"No one's mentioned the adding of two stroke oil to Derv, it gets mentioned in lots of forums where many swear by it, smoother quieter running being the main benefit, and many talk of lubricant benefits too, what's the view on that folks."
I have tried it in our old L200 truck - 2.5 litre 4 cyl indirect injection 4D56T engine 115 hp with a cloned Bosch EPV distributor injection pump with EU 4 electronic control.
At a ratio of a quarter litre in 70 litres of fuel it reduces engine noise, particularly on cold start when these are very noisy and a very slight decrease in fuel consumption, about 1-2 mpg.
I reckon the added oil is improving the lubrication and function of the delivery valves and injector pintles, hence the reduction in noise.
Not because there was anything wrong with it, just to see the effect.
I wouldn't use it on anything modern with common rail or DPF though.
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At a ratio of a quarter litre in 70 litres of fuel it reduces engine noise, particularly on cold start when these are very noisy and a very slight decrease in fuel consumption, about 1-2 mpg.
I reckon the added oil is improving the lubrication and function of the delivery valves and injector pintles, hence the reduction in noise.
That sounds about what most people experience using 2T.
Interesting link from Wacky, above, particularly the rather odd method of measuring lubricity, not as one might have expected by actually using the stuff in high mileage engine use or long term use under road type conditions.
I know this is a fuel additive thread but unusual test procedures are used in this long running blog by an engineer testing the quality of engine oils, USA.
540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear.../
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>> I wouldn't use it on anything modern with common rail or DPF though.
I used 2T oil in my landcruiser (common rail, no DPF) for years without any trouble. The engine was quieter with it, but I didn't notice any change to MPG.
If you do this, its important to use a mineral 2T oil. Morrisons fuel stations used to be a good source at 1.99 a bottle, but that may have changed now.
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Erm ... BMW and Merc (to name but 2) do sell their own' official' diesel and petrol tank additives. I've seen them in a BMW dealership on a stand.
So they do. The BMW one retails at over £13 but Amazon sell it for just over a tenner. BMW say its the only one they approve for use in thier cars.
It treats one tank so assuming the average tank is 12 gallons (55 litres) that's getting close to £0.20 to treat a litre.
You would have to be mad,
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You have to do what's best for you. My previous diesel always ran poorly IN MY OPINION on supermarket fuel - especially Morrisons. It would feel lumpy and I would barely get 500 miles out of a full tank.
But if I used Millers or Shell fuel it would run much smoother and I'd get 550+ miles.
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You have to do what's best for you. My previous diesel always ran poorly IN MY OPINION on supermarket fuel
Well I drove diesels for almost 20 years. We had 2 x VW, 2 x Ford, a Kia and a BMW. All drove exactly the same regardless of the fuel we used which was mostly Tesco or Asda. Branded fuel made no difference at all.
Its all in the mind. If it costs more it must be better.
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Mostly all fuel sold in rural france is sold by the supermarkets, they have displaced the small local garages almost completely - the supermarlet price is about €0.10 to €0.15 per litre cheaper, and they occasionally have cost price days when it's even cheaper.
The diesel in France is different to the UK, it smells different and gives better MPG. It smells like UK diesel used to smell like 20 years ago - GB will know what I mean.
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The diesel in France is different to the UK, it smells different and gives better MPG. It smells like UK diesel used to smell like 20 years ago - GB will know what I mean.
Yes i do, it smells more like petrol now and burns differently, if you drip a small amount into a tray and drop a match in, at one time it was almost impossible to set cold Derv alight, not so now, it burns quite readily.
Millers has a peculiar rich smell, if you get a sniff of the premium Derv it has a faint aroma of Millers, not quite like a fine wine tasting.
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"Yes i do, it smells more like petrol now and burns differently, if you drip a small amount into a tray and drop a match in, at one time it was almost impossible to set cold Derv alight, not so now, it burns quite readily"
I would hazard a guess that it's been diluted with kerosene or lighter fractions to give a better emissions performance at the expense of mpg.
The low sulphur stuff in the UK was particularly bad for mpg - 5 mpg worse than standard diesel was my experience.
I used to use Millers when in the uk and it does give better mpg and performance.
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"Yes i do, it smells more like petrol now and burns differently, if you drip a small amount into a tray and drop a match in, at one time it was almost impossible to set cold Derv alight, not so now, it burns quite readily"
I would hazard a guess that it's been diluted with kerosene or lighter fractions to give a better emissions performance at the expense of mpg.
The low sulphur stuff in the UK was particularly bad for mpg - 5 mpg worse than standard diesel was my experience.
I used to use Millers when in the uk and it does give better mpg and performance.
Ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) is standard across Europe - it's inclusion as a requirement in EN590, the European standard for diesel, was a pre-requisite before Euro 5 could be introduced as it was incompatible with DPFs.
ULSD is the standard diesel.
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I wonder if winter diesel, supplied in the UK from 16 Nov to 5 March, has a different smell to the summer season diesel?
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16th November to 15th March - but that's just the distribution date - high turnover filling stations, like supermarkets, will have used that in a few days - lower turnover filling stations could still be dispensing it for weeks, maybe months.
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Never ever used any additives in fuel, but I used to put well over 100k miles on my company cars over 3 years, so would have been expensive. All ran very well indeed, but regular servicing and constant daily use mainly on major roads certainly helped. My last car, gone today, was a 1.9 diesel with 206K miles, using hardly any oil between services and returning abount 49mpg around local runs and up to 60mpg on long runs. Did use mostly Shell, BP etc with the occasional supermarket fill up, and the odd tankfull of premium derv. so IMHO good quality fuel seems to be the major factor for me.
Cheers Concrete
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Mostly all fuel sold in rural france is sold by the supermarkets, they have displaced the small local garages almost completely - the supermarlet price is about €0.10 to €0.15 per litre cheaper, and they occasionally have cost price days when it's even cheaper.
The diesel in France is different to the UK, it smells different and gives better MPG. It smells like UK diesel used to smell like 20 years ago - GB will know what I mean.
I've always found that too - I get better mpg in France than I do at home. However, I'd always put it down to my driving style probably being a bit more cautious and a bit slower due to both driving on the 'wrong' side of the road, and being on roads I don't know
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I've always found that too - I get better mpg in France than I do at home. However, I'd always put it down to my driving style probably being a bit more cautious and a bit slower due to both driving on the 'wrong' side of the road, and being on roads I don't know
... and driving at 130 kph on the motorways!!
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I use pure 2-EHN (2 ethylhexyl nitrate), you can buy it quite cheaply on Ebay. 2-EHN is a well known Cetane booster, and pretty much forms the basis of every diesel additive and cleaner on the market, and increases combustion and even helps with cold starting during the winter months. In years gone by, it was also the base ingredient of choice in some premium Diesel fuels.
2-EHN won't clean the injectors, but it will help to increase MPG, and in some cases also give a small amount of power boost. I find that I get around 4-5mpg better when adding 2-EHN, even to Supermarket diesel.
Generally the 2-EHN content of off the shelf additives is only around 30 - 70%, so by adding pure 2-EHN to the tank works out to be more cost effective than the additives, and one litre of it can be bought for around £12 a litre on Ebay.
As far as injector cleaning goes, I just run through a bottle of Forte Additive every 5000 miles or so. If you have an older diesel car, then 2-EHN and the aforementioned 2 Stroke oil make a good combination.
Edited by Chris James on 03/03/2017 at 23:35
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