Why anyone would buy one of their cars is beyond me.

Haven't found a brand yet that's beyond reproach - some of their cars are quite good.

I suspect the issue is that we have felt cheated by their advertising "if only everything in life was as reliable as a VW"

At least you have learnt a valuable life lesson not to belive advertising!

That advert was from the eighties unless they've done a modern version.

Yes ... I guess they couldn't re-run that line today!

Good old skidpan and the perfect cars he always seems to buy along with his expert opinion.

Not expert opinion, just my vew after over 40 years at the wheel and the ability to look and see past the advertising and journalists.

When we went to collect the Leon in 2013 the Toledo had recently been introduced but I had not even noticed it. When we were in the showroom there was one parked next to the salesmans desk with the boot open and my first thought was "why I have bought the Leon when this has such a hige boot for less money".

While we were waiting for the paperwork to be completed (badly) we had a look around the Toledo and other Seats and it was very quickly noticable why I would never have bought one. Very narrow inside (based on the Ibiza family), less legroom in the rear than the Leon (probably less than the 1 series I was part chopping), very odd specifications and the TSi variants still used the old and potentially unreliable Chain cam engines. Even the attractive prices were all smoke and mirrors when you looked at the specs and compared like for like with the brtand new and far superior Leon.

So whilst I will concede its got a huge boot I will never concede its has any other redeeming features. If you researched sales figures you will find that combined sales of the Skoda and Seat variants hve hardly shhok up the market.

What car are particularly uncomplementary about the Skoda Saceback version. Even their very VAG biased journo's have spotted the reduced bootspace has removed at a stroke its one class leading attribute.

But if you look at prices the Rapid and Toeldo clearly makes no sense.

1.2 110 PS TSi SE Rapid £16760 broker price 14343

1.2 110 PS TSi Toledo £17780 broke price £13835

But while you are in the Skoda showroom take the time to look at the far more modern Fabia Estate

1.2 110 PS TSi SE Estate £15820 broker price £13544

That is £800 less than a Rapid and £300 less than a Toledo.

So why buy old tech for more money.

If you spend a little bit more (about £1000) you can get Leon ST which has an even bigger boot, more interior space and probably better kit levels.

As for width the Rapid/Toledo is 1706, the Fabia 1732 and the Leon 1816 (all excluding mirrors). OK, I admit they are external dims but the Rapid/Toledo is the narrowest.

Even as a VAG fan I can see no features that would make me buy either the Toledo or Rapid over their more modern equivalents.

Cheap cars are fine if they are cheap, take the Dacia range as an example. But when supposed cheap cars are more expensive than thier modern alternatives from the same brands its clear the marketing people are barking mad.

Or maybe the Toledo/Rapid are sold as cheap cars in some markest and its just the UK being ripped off.

sorry skidpan, i think you are plain werong and as oes every single review and road test.

Only saying what I saw in a Seat showroom in June 2013. I am not simply repeating what the biased road test reports say, its a fact based on what I saw with my Mk 1 human eyes. I sat in the rear of both the Leon and the Toledo on the same morning and the Leon definitely had more legroom, more width and excellent access. The Toledo appeared little better than my BMW 118D and was the same as the Ibiza estate its based on.

While I agree the octavia is probably a better car (expcet the road noise insulation for some reason which is dreadful on an Octavia)

We have driven 4 Octaivias, 3 Estates and one hatch. All 3 estates were dreadful for road noise, 2 were 1.4 TSi, one was a 2.0 diesel, all on different brand tyres. The hatch was a 1.4 TSi and it was fine. So I concluded it was an estate thing. Would possibly have ordered an hatch if Skoda had not stopped taking orders (November 2016).

I doubt I could get one for anywhere near £12k brand new in mid spec trim.

You cannot get an Octavia for £12k at reputable brokers but the same brokers won't sell you a Toledo/Rapid for £12k either. The Octavia will cost about £1500 more in SE spec which is a bit of a bargain in my book especially when the Octavia is a brand new model with more kit (especially safety related kit).

When I was collecting the Superb today there was a Rabid hatch and a Rabid Sportback in the showroom, had a look at both the check my memory is not failing me.

Well its not. No better legroom in the rear than the Fabia but the hatch still has a huge boot. Sportback is pointless.

Both were priced north of £18000 which is crazy for a 1.2 TSi SE with no listed options.

The interior of both looked quite inviting until you touched the plastics. Horrid and hard.