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Fri 17 Feb 2017 16:53

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - heartattakjoe

hi and yes, this is one of THOSE threads.

My father recently passed away and once the house is sold i am doing the adult thing of clearing loans and putting something aside, but i would also like to change my car.

i currently have a 2005 honda cr-v 2.2 i-cdti which is the first "suv-ish" car i have owned, and i like the high seating position a LOT, plus the ground clearance and 4wd gets me to and from some out-in-the-sticks fishing spots. there is also an offroading park in a forest very close to me which i would love to have a bash at but doubt the honda would cope.

hence why i am looking for another suv, something with a bit more luxury, more poke and - very important - more boot space for my fishing gear.

so the 2 i have narrowed it down to, within the budget of €10,000 plus my honda, are 2005/6 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD or similar year VW Touareg V6 3.0 tdi, both with under 100k miles (150,000km)

one thing that concerns me of sorts, is the reliability. i do not want to buy a money pit because of a badge (had considered and subsiquently ruled out LRD3)

i ruled out the VW 2.5 tdi R5 as aside from higher tax, the costs and economy are the same for a weaker engine, same goes for the Jeep's 2.7 CRD. if they are more reliable then obviously they are the smarter choice

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 17:15

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - gordonbennet

I know nothing about either car, but humbly suggest if you want to go off roading at a pay and play site, that the best bet is to buy an old Suzi SJ Vitara, Terios, something nimble and light and easy to carry, and a suitable car trailer, and maybe share the costs and fun between yourself and a friend.

Lots of damage gets done at such sites, unless you are going to fit a full set of mud terrains, or all terrain tyres at the very least, (not good on the road) you will struggle in the wet and in the dry the ground is hard when you connect, and its oh so easy to lose traction on a slope, the vehicle slips sideways and before you know it you're coming down the slope side-on which ends when one wheel hits a tree stump and you flip, uninsured, seen it happen, done it meself in my old RR down a 30 yard slope you couldn't possibly walk up, but without rolling luckily.

Modern Landcruisers (european versions are not rest of world brick outhouse design any more) have had wrecked front diffs ££££, lots of vehicles bottom out, underbody but mainly front and rear approach/departure angles not as great as people think.

Sorry if that post bursts your bubble it wasn't meant to, great fun can be had if you buy an old knacker and go mud plugging in it, and a suitable car trailer can earn you a few quid on the side to earn its keep so long as its parked somewhere safe when not in use.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 17:17

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - skidpan

i do not want to buy a money pit

Any 10+ year old car has the potential to be a money pit.

A 10+ year old SUV is almost certain to be a money pit.

Spending good money on a car no newer than your Honda is plain daft.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 17:31

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - RT

Potential repair costs are proportional to high price when originally new.

Grand Cherokee is closely related to Mercedes-Benz ML-Class, for better and worse - the Touareg is related to the Porsche Cayenne, effectively its off-road version.

For me it's no contest, get the Touareg - but I'm biased as I too have a Touareg.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 17:39

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - SLO76

I certainly won't be recommending a 10-12yr old Jeep or VW Touareg to anyone looking for reliable cost effective transport.

Both are hugely complex cars that were highly expensive to buy new and will have running costs in line with that new price. Don't buy one if you can't aford to run it! Either of these will be much more costly to run and more likely to cause trouble than your old Honda. I really wouldn't do it if I were you.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 18:27

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - corax

Old style Kia Sorento is fairly suited to off roading with separate chassis, but it won't be the luxury you're after. Jeep Cherokee is good with Quadra drive but parts won't be as easy as Land Rover if you break something. A workmate of mine had the previous shape Cherokee and the rear brakes stuck on and started smoking. The handbrake cables seize up and they're a pig to replace.

I'm not sure that off roading and luxury mix, not unless you have very deep pockets. It's more sense to buy something cheap like a Vitara or CJ Jeep as a second car as already mentioned.

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 10:31

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - heartattakjoe

TL:DR; i have my heart set on changing, models will be newer than originally expected, not going extreme offroading and risk battering a daily driver just more than the honda can do, nissan pathfinder 2008+ 2.5 dci an option? 2nd car is a big no no. money pit means to me buying a lemon, which of those is the least citrusy?

read on:

i hear what you are saying and take it all into consideration. i have done more research and price checking and it seems these throw up the least problems over 100k depending on model year, and the car i would be going for would be 2 or more years younger than mine with a good 50% less miles on the clock.

I have no space for a second car let alone a safe place to store a transport trailer. the park is like 30km from me, i will be going to check it out at the weekend to see what people are using there. but its noting like the moab or these extreme trails with mud boggin or rock crawling (or if it has i wouldn't be doing it) i guess thay have differnt levels of challenge on different routes suitable for different vehicles - heck if there's one my honda would get through while being a lot of fun then i would reconsider changing. big lift kits and ridiculous sized tyres might not even be needed, maybe just all terrain or mud tyres.

i have found 2.5 dci nissan pathfinders 2008-2012 with very low km on them, not so much luxury as the jeep but then my honda is really low spec so heated seats and reverse parking sensors would be a luxury for me, for a little bit over my budget. i believe those years had the least (2012 very little if any) famous drivetrain troubles and they are a cheaper to run as a daily driver.

the car would be kept hopefully for a long time basically until the engine is knackered and repairs are more than the value, my point about money pits was that i dont know if any of the ones i mentioned are going to throw up problems i haven't found through my own research - i know the Disco3 has a very bad rep for all sorts of problems throughout the whole car which is why it is not on there, the ones on my list, not so much. the merc engine and trans in the jeep is strong as heck, vw touareg has some niggles but if i can find 2007 and later models within budget. surely these newer ones would be less problematic?

also i live in germany, where nearly every small garage is a vw or merc or bmw car specialist in one form or another so cheaper than dealership repairs. and i have a nissan garage down the end of the road too.

basically i only considered the change as i should be coming into enough money to clear all loans, set aside a hefty deposit for when we buy a house, and 10k or so for personal spending. and there are niggles with my honda - as much as i love the quiet and relatively powerful 2.2 - that annoy me. a/c system b*****s up. blue smoke on startup (maybe turbo oil seal gone?) possibly need trans fluids changed, the outer rubber seal of the side windows makes no contact to clear outside rain or mist when opening. in cold german weather ice forms inside the top of front windscreen. folding seats dont leave flat full length cargo space of which i now need more.

Edited by heartattakjjoe on 21/02/2017 at 10:31

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 11:09

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - SLO76

Wouldn't touch the Pathfinder with a barge pole. www.carshowroom.com.au/news/nissan-navaras-and-pat.../

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 11:36

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - gordonbennet

Wouldn't touch the Pathfinder with a barge pole.

Agreed, we test drove a new Pathfinder in 2007, my wife disliked it intently whilst driving it not helped by the thing going into limp mode on test, we bought a Hilux instead.

If you want a Nissan then Patrol is a different beast altogether despite the relatively small engine fitted to later models, Landcruiser Amazon quality and durabilty.

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 21:45

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - heartattakjoe

Wouldn't touch the Pathfinder with a barge pole. www.carshowroom.com.au/news/nissan-navaras-and-pat.../

thats cars up to 2008, i would be looking for newer models such as 2012 2.5 dci 190ps model with under 60,000 miles on the clock.

all cars i am looking at have less than 75,000 miles, would you then consider them to old and requiring too many fixes to keep running? my honda is on 150,000 miles

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 22:32

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - SLO76

A 2012 Pathfinder with sub 75k mileage and full history will cost upwards of £12,500 minimum realistically and while the chassis issue doesn't seem to affect these later models there are plenty of other problems. It really isn't a particularly reliable car. Remember that while it has a Nissan badge on the bonnet the firm is owned by Renault and sadly their reliability and quality issues are now very prevalent among modern Nissan's.

At the end of the day if you want something you'll have to get it out of your system and I guess this is your chance. Beg borrow or steal to buy the newest, lowest mileage car you can afford and buy only with a full dealer or genuine specialist service history with proof of annual oil changes. These are notorious for timing chain issues if servicing is neglected.

Personally I'd forget the Navara/Pathfinder and look at Mitsubishi Shogun, L200 or a Toyota Hi Lux. They'll be dearer but there's good reason why. vans.honestjohn.co.uk/used-van-buying-guides/nissa.../

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Wed 22 Feb 2017 08:27

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - heartattakjoe

A 2012 Pathfinder with sub 75k mileage and full history will cost upwards of £12,500 minimum realistically and while the chassis issue doesn't seem to affect these later models there are plenty of other problems. It really isn't a particularly reliable car. Remember that while it has a Nissan badge on the bonnet the firm is owned by Renault and sadly their reliability and quality issues are now very prevalent among modern Nissan's. At the end of the day if you want something you'll have to get it out of your system and I guess this is your chance. Beg borrow or steal to buy the newest, lowest mileage car you can afford and buy only with a full dealer or genuine specialist service history with proof of annual oil changes. These are notorious for timing chain issues if servicing is neglected. Personally I'd forget the Navara/Pathfinder and look at Mitsubishi Shogun, L200 or a Toyota Hi Lux. They'll be dearer but there's good reason why. vans.honestjohn.co.uk/used-van-buying-guides/nissa.../

i am in germany where the big luxury suv's (t'reg, GC, RR, LRD3, pathy, x5, xc90 etc) are not so much used as workhorses but big autobahn cruisers to pack the family in for camping trips, and most have only seen deep snow and the odd gravel road. pickups are out of the question though as i need back seats folded forward to fit all my gear inside.

the 2012 pathfinders (2 in one dealership) are going for 16k EURO here, very good power and efficiency on those models though. shame really, the x trail has such a good rep but the big brother is seemingly poo.

unfortunately land cruisers are high mileage on all years, shoguns (called pajero here) are similar, or else low mileage but older than my 2005 and bad economy.

2009 grand cherokee overland a/t 3.0 crd for under 16k EURO, 120,000KM. quite a few with these criteria

i am looking to add about 10-12k to the trade in value of my honda, not 10k total. searching for cars up to 17,5k EURO to allow some wiggle room on the dealers price. going with a dealership so i can trade my car in and the used car dealer warranty here in germany does mean something.

i wont be buying for a few months yet and i only limited myself to the original budget as the rest of the monies will be put aside for buying a house in a few years but i dont want to go silly price just for a car. loans will be cleared so running costs are not so much a problem i drive a 200km week to work but car pool so its every 2 or 3 weeks. servicing is servicing, but my original question was which suv is very reliable - the disco 3 was instantly taken off my shortlist because if its bad reliability even though i love the thing most. servicing and repairs is pretty much the same accross all badges. german or japanese doesn't matter the parts cost around the same, but i am avoiding bmw like the plague they are a rip off even for servicing here.

i just wanted an idea of which ones to look out for and test drive so i dont go drive something i fall in love with, to find out its a lemon marque

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Wed 22 Feb 2017 08:40

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - SLO76

"shame really, the x trail has such a good rep but the big brother is seemingly poo."

The Xtrail actually has a very poor reputation in the trade for engine problems on diesel models. The origional Nissan 2.2 diesel was murder for timing chain issues and injector problems while the later Renault 2.0 DCi was prone to giving plenty of woe as it ages as per the norm for Renault diesels with one exception the tried and tested 1.5 DCi which is surprisingly quite robust.

There are hardly any first gen Xtrails left on UK roads despite selling well while there are loads of ancient mega mile Honda CRV's.

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Tue 21 Feb 2017 11:57

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - SLO76

As you're now discovering on your old CRV older high mileage diesel SUV's are complex and will require never ending repairs and maintenance to keep going. The larger heavy duty models you're listing are largely bought as workhorses and are in general kept until they're no longer economically viable so at your budget you'll be buying them just as they arrive at trouble central.

I honesty can't think of a worse way for you to spend £10,000 which from your description you won't be able to replace if or rather when it all goes wrong. I'd personally be aiming for something that will last.

For £10-£11k you could buy a MK IV CRV 2.0 petrol with 4wd that should give you a decade of reliable family motoring, similar economy to your older gen diesel 35-38mpg average, respectable off road ability and vastly superior comfort to one of these old ladder chassis beasts you're talking about.

By all means get one if you really must but don't expect anyone with any knowledge on this subject to recommend one to you as a wise purchase when you're clearly on a limited budget. If you absolutely can't stop yourself then a Mitsubishi Shogun, L200 Crew Cab, Toyota Honda Lux or Isuzu Rodeo are probably your best bets but remember they'll all be hugely expensive to run and watch out for £500 tax rate on some which not only stings every year but kills resale values.

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Wed 1 Mar 2017 18:56

Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg - another "which car" thread... sorry - heartattakjoe

Well after a LOT of reading and watching videos, it seems out of the 2 cars the GC seems the better buy if i go that route. there have been far too many complains over the touareg, propshaft bearings, eating tyres, electrical gremlins etc right up to 2008 models. yes, the tdi v6 engine is solid, not sure about the auto box, but the merc v6 crd is also very good and i read the auto box is solid.

as for the off road side, the GC has far more aftermarket parts, especially rock sliders and skid plates if i go down the more harcore offroading route

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