FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 19:33
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Lindsey Gregory

Evening

Quite a complexed issue.

My son went out with friends and got quite intoxicated. He cant remember how or why he ended up in the rear of his vehicle, only to wake up with a bang! (car accident)

Coming round the drivers door was wide open, his friend in passanger seat shocked. He got out the back to bystanders advising driver ran off. Police attended the scene.

Now, he has been charged with giving someone permission to drive his car without insurance.

He for the life of him does not know who the driver was, no one has owned up.

We have had length conversations as to whether he was driving and assures me he wasnt.

I know the above offence is a strict liability. However, my issue is how can he give someone permission when he was clear intoxicated?

Also, I am the registered keeper, so I def did not give this lad permission to drive "my" vehicle. My son has permission and is thus insured to do so.

When the officer who is dealing with the case comes back on duty we are going to advise that clearly the vehicle was theoretically stolen.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 19:50
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - RobJP

Claiming that the vehicle was stolen ? You'd have to PROVE that your son did not voluntarily hand the keys to the 'friend' who was driving. The sheer fact of your son being a willing passenger in the vehicle indicates that it was not stolen, but that he allowed another person to drive, and handed them the keys to do so.

He could force the other passenger onto the stand, where the person could be obliged by a judge to give the name of the driver. Failing to comply would be Contempt of Court, an imprisonable offence.

However, you need professional legal advice. And you need it sharpish.

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 19:58
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Brit_in_Germany

If the police cannot identify the driver, how do they know whether they were insured or not?

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 20:08
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - SLO76
You can see it from the Police officers perspective. There's an accident and at the scene the person there named on the insurance (your son) is heavily under the influence, denies driving himself stating he was in the back seat and can't/refuses to answer who was driving but of course this mystery other person is nowhere to be seen.

I'm sorry but I suspect your son is telling you porkies, either he was driving or he does know who was either way the police are no fools and neither are the courts, they see this kind of thing daily.

Secondary to this, you say you're the registered keeper but that it was his vehicle . Do you have another car yourself and this was for him to use? If so it's called fronting and the insurance industry watch out for this kind of thing too. It's likely they'll refuse to pay out in any claim and it is classed by the industry as insurance fraud.

Edited by SLO76 on 01/02/2017 at 20:09

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Wed 1 Feb 2017 22:06
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - TedCrilly

This is serious, a very large book is heading skyward in the direction of your son and because you are the owner of the vehicle yourself also.

Glib comments to the police and attempts to highlight technicalities are not going to work in your favour. You need professional help in this but before anything you need to sit your son down and get him to come clean. Forensics will identify in a heartbeat who was driving the car and if they go down that road and stories don't match......well...you work it out yourself.

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 07:24
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Lindsey Gregory

Thanks all for your help.

I understand how it looks, and I indeed thought the same. However, an independent witness at the scene verfied my son wasnt the driver.

I have called a few law firms as advised.

Thanks

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 15:24
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - SLO76

Thanks all for your help.

I understand how it looks, and I indeed thought the same. However, an independent witness at the scene verfied my son wasnt the driver.

I have called a few law firms as advised.

Thanks

If that witness wasn't an occupant of the car then that will help immensely but I don't think the court will accept he didn't know who was driving but if he wasn't drunk behind the wheel I hope he lands well.
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Thu 2 Feb 2017 07:29
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Lindsey Gregory

Just to clarify. There is no insurance 'fronting' as the insurance is in his own name. I am not on the insurance policy at all!

I just own the vehicle and have allowed my son to use it until he finishes his apprenticeship.

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 07:58
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Brit_in_Germany

Just a thought - if the law considers that a woman can get so drunk that she cannot consent to sex and therefore a charge of rape can follow, would the law also consider that a drunk vehicle owner cannot give consent to someone else to drive the car?

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 15:59
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Lindsey Gregory

Thats a very good point!!

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 15:18
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - SLO76

Just to clarify. There is no insurance 'fronting' as the insurance is in his own name. I am not on the insurance policy at all!

I just own the vehicle and have allowed my son to use it until he finishes his apprenticeship.

Ok fair enough but do remember that he must inform the insurance firm that he is not the registered keeper. Shouldn't make any difference to the cost but some firms frown on it and all of them demand complete up front honesty. www.money.co.uk/car-insurance/how-to-insure-yourse...m

Edited by SLO76 on 02/02/2017 at 15:20

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Thu 2 Feb 2017 16:02
FIAT Punto - IN10 - Permission no insurance - Dwight Van Driver

My first thoughts are with SLO76 account ^^^^^^

Proof needed the actual driver was uninsured to be done for permitting - missing so far.

By standers helped son from back seat, did they see accident or see driver leg it or son get into back seat?????

More holes in the story so far than a seive. There will be more detailed investigation by Plod to resolve. DNA from steering wheel? Name driver forms served on son and other passenger.

Could get quite messy.

dvd

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