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All depends on the condition of the vehicle, i suspect with the mileage and owned from new the car is in superb condition and no reason why it hasn't got another 14 years life left in it.
The only time a sale value is of any relevance is if you want to sell, so if it were mine and good enough for a number of years yet and i wanted to keep it, then i would get the belt done, pity to ruin a perfectly decent vehicle.
Not sure how the water pump is driven on these, if its anything like my previous Landcruiser 3.4V6 petrol the angle of belt driving the water pump was slight, so Toyota (who renewed the belt and were cheapest by some margin) only renew it if there is some sign of wear and tear...edit, come to think of it i can't remember now if the cambelt drives the pump on the petrol LC at all i might be thinking of something else, it certainly doesn't drive water pump on the Diesel.
When you get quotes for the belt it might be worth asking whoever fixes Isuzus in your area for a price too, as well as Vauxhall and any decent indies you can think of.
I have no idea what this will cost, but purely for comparison purposes my indy quotes for the LC were around the £500 mark, Toyota dealer did it for just under £300 straight quote no haggling and chucked a free courtesy car in for the day.
Edited by gordonbennet on 06/01/2017 at 23:32
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Vauxhall change the belt recommendation every few years - without telling existing owners!
When new, the owners manual for my '95 Cavalier specified 80,000 miles / 8 years for the cambelt change - this was shortened to 40,000 miles / 4 years without informing existing owners, even those using Vauxhall dealers for servicing - out of warranty mine went at 55,000 miles and wrecked the cyclinder head and it took me nearly a year to get Vauxhall to make a goodwill payment to cover the rebuild.
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Vauxhall change the belt recommendation every few years - without telling existing owners!
When new, the owners manual for my '95 Cavalier specified 80,000 miles / 8 years for the cambelt change - this was shortened to 40,000 miles / 4 years without informing existing owners, even those using Vauxhall dealers for servicing - out of warranty mine went at 55,000 miles and wrecked the cyclinder head and it took me nearly a year to get Vauxhall to make a goodwill payment to cover the rebuild.
I'm assuming your Cavalier was a 2.0 16v ecotec RT? I sold loads of Cavaliers in the 90's and had a couple of 1600's that snapped belts but caused no damage. They were great cars, good on juice, quick for the engine size and the only thing that ever went wrong really was the hazard warning light switch. Half the Cavaliers we got in had a wee bit of card stuffed down the side of the switch to keep the hazards off including the 1.4 I used for ages. But the 2.0 16v was the only interference engine in the range I believe so cam belt changes were often overlooked as there's was little risk of damage.
Edited by SLO76 on 07/01/2017 at 09:08
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Yes, it was the 2.0 16v Ecotec.
The 8v 1.6 was non-damaging - the pistons did hit the valves but since they were in line with the piston, it just compressed the lash adjuster. the 8v 1.8 was probably similar.
The 16v versions of 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 were all interference as the valves were at an angle and got bent, often splitting a valve guide.
One of the weaknesses of the Vauxhall belted engines was that the cambelt drove the water pump - if you didn't replace the pump every time you changed a cambelt, it was sod's law it would go before the next belt change - and it wrecked the engine just like the belt breaking. Many owners thought that dealers/workshops were ripping them off and refused to pay to change a perfectly good water pump.
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Thanks for your valuable input khcomp but can you spell out the definition of an "interference" engine?
In my day we had either OHV or side valve engines, all being chain driven!
As pensioner I'm getting a bit out of my depth.
Bill N.
Edited by Bill Naulder on 07/01/2017 at 10:53
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"Interference" is dependent on what happens when the cambelt, or more rarely the camchain, breaks as the camshaft/valves are then stationary with at least one valve open but the pistons are still moving - if they hit the open valve as they come up to top dead centre it's an interference engine - if there's enough room in the combustion chamber to miss then it's a non-interference engine.
Sorry if that's a bit involved, I can't think of another way of explaining it.
In laymans terms, an interference engine will suffer internal damage if the cambelt/chain breaks while a non-interference engine doesn't.
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I'd personally be surprised if it was non-interference but seems a lot of conflicting reports from over the pond in its biggest market the US suggesting that it is indeed. Strange that there's no definitive answer on this particular engine and there's plenty of cases of belts snapping and engines being undamaged. Might be down to luck...
Get a few quotes for the job then way up how much you personally value the vehicle.
www.automotiveforums.com/t325554-discuss3_2l_v6_is...l
www.itocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31530&sid=...d
Edited by SLO76 on 07/01/2017 at 11:26
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Gates used to have a list of cambelt applications that indicated if an engine was interference or not, but I can't find it. IIRC it was their US division.
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Modern belts don't seem to deteriorate much with age,
On the outside they may look fine but you have no idea what they are like inside. All rubber ages and belts lead a pretty hard life when you consider what they are doing. Same applies to tyres as well, just because they have legal tread does not mean they are safe to use and are not going to fail at a moments notice. Can happen at any age but more likely as they get older, that is why manufacturers of both tyres and belts recommend changing at a certain age regardless of mileage covered.
If the OP intends keeping the car indefinitely a belt change is well worth doing.
If the OP thinks the car is past its sell by date and when it breaks it will be scrapped then leave it.
Edited by skidpan on 08/01/2017 at 13:40
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Thanks to all who posted. Having been driving since the early 50’s and “Rallying” all through most of the 60’s I am well aware just what physically occurs when the upper part of an engine suddenly stops and the bottom part keeps turning!
What I had never heard of and which RT kindly explained was the definition of the word “interference” when describing an engine.
“Swambo” and I have already agreed that we want to keep the car if the cambelt can be replaced sometime this year and at a reasonable cost.
According to my original service booklet - Timing Belt replace quotes 3.2 V6 (6VD1-W) at 80,000 miles.
Armed with this info, “Swambo” then telephoned our nearest Eden Vauxhall dealership in Christchurch, Dorset for a quote, only to be told by “Tom” that the engine has a timing chain (not a belt)! ?????????
As the engine has ISUZU written all over everything I decided to contact an Isuzu dealership - “Ferndown Commercials Ltd, Haviland Rd, Ferndown Industrial Estate, Wimborne BH21 7RG,
I was told that they were unable to quote because the work called for special Vauxhall “tools” (or parts?) that they didn’t have access to! ?????????
Yesterday morning, I telephoned Eden Vauxhall at Branksome (near Poole, Dorset. All their service staff were busy but they promised someone would return my call, - I’m still waiting!
So can anyone here offer any further advice or at least some hope?
Bill N.
Edited by Bill Naulder on 08/01/2017 at 16:47
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Just Googled 3.2 V6 (6VD1-W) and it came back as a Belt Cam on all the various forums (all Izusu).
I would suggest you go to a well established 4 x 4 specialist choosing one who has experience of these engines. A Vauxhall garage who has not seen one for the best part of 20 years (if ever) is a sure way of spending loads of cash and getting more problems than you had before. If they don't know if its a chain or belt its not exactly confidence inspiring is it?
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Sorry, please ignore previous post at 16.17 as Swambo has just read it through and informed me that I got the story muddled. – Here follows the corrected version.
Thanks to all who posted. Having been driving since the early 50’s and “Rallying” all through most of the 60’s I am well aware just what physically occurs when the upper part of an engine suddenly stops and the bottom part keeps turning!
What I had never heard of and which RT kindly explained was the definition of the word “interference” when describing an engine.
“Swambo” and I have already agreed that we want to keep the car if the cambelt can be replaced sometime this year and at a reasonable cost.
According to my original service booklet - Timing Belt replace quotes 3.2 V6 (6VD1-W) at 80,000 miles.
Armed with this info, “Swambo” then telephoned the Eden Vauxhall dealership in Branksome, near Poole, Dorset for a quote, only to be told by “Tom” that the engine has a timing chain (not a belt)! ?????????
As the engine has ISUZU written all over everything I decided to contact an Isuzu dealership - “Ferndown Commercials Ltd, Haviland Rd, Ferndown Industrial Estate, Wimborne BH21 7RG,
I was told that they were unable to quote because the work called for special Vauxhall “tools” (or parts?) that they didn’t have access to! ?????????
Yesterday morning, I telephoned Eden Vauxhall at Branksome again. All their service staff were busy but they promised someone would return my call, - I’m still waiting!
Obviously, I have yet to contact Eden Vauxhall in Christchurch, Dorset.
So can anyone here offer any further advice or at least some hope?
Bill N.
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"Armed with this info, “Swambo” then telephoned the Eden Vauxhall dealership in Branksome, near Poole, Dorset for a quote, only to be told by “Tom” that the engine has a timing chain (not a belt)! ?????????"
It's definitely a belt but I understand the confusion at the dealer as it was a rare car even when new with the number of engines options over the years and the bulk of owners going for the 4cyl petrol and diesel units.
The later 2.2 DTi that made up the bulk of sales was chain driven as was the old 2.4 petrol and I believe the 2.2 petrol was too, but the Isuzu 2.3 & 2.8 diesels used a belt so did the 2.0 petrol. The VM 2.5 diesel was gear driven. No wonder they're confused.
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Just Googled 3.2 V6 (6VD1-W) and it came back as a Belt Cam on all the various forums (all Izusu).
I would suggest you go to a well established 4 x 4 specialist choosing one who has experience of these engines. A Vauxhall garage who has not seen one for the best part of 20 years (if ever) is a sure way of spending loads of cash and getting more problems than you had before. If they don't know if its a chain or belt its not exactly confidence inspiring is it?
Couldn't agree more Skidpan but just don't know who these specialists might be around my area. I live in New Milton, Hants just a couple of miles from the Dorset border.
Any suggestions anyone?
Bill.N
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The forums linked to above seemed like friendly places, i'm sure if you introduced yourself there someone will know a suitable man with the spanners not a million miles from you.
I don't think it needs to be a 4x4 specialist unless you want other work doing, in which case again i'd go nowhere near that Vaux dealer, any decent time served mechanic, preferably a bit more mature so likely to have seen and worked on V6 north south engines in the metal, would be up to this job.
Edited by gordonbennet on 08/01/2017 at 17:51
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Hi Bill
Would you be willing to travel up to West Oxfordshire for Frontera servicing?
My mechanic has a small business there, servicing all 4x4's (when your Frontera was new we were both employed at a Subaru/Isuzu dealership where we both looked after many Isuzu engines including the V6 petrol)
I trust him completely, he will be honest with you.
Chris
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Hi Bill
Would you be willing to travel up to West Oxfordshire for Frontera servicing?
My mechanic has a small business there, servicing all 4x4's (when your Frontera was new we were both employed at a Subaru/Isuzu dealership where we both looked after many Isuzu engines including the V6 petrol)
I trust him completely, he will be honest with you.
Chris
Just picked up on your post Chris.
Having the work done by a competent mechanic in Oxfordshire may well be within the realms of possibility for us.
Obviously it would have to be relatively cost effective but at present it would appear that the only alternative would be to trade in what is a perfectly good running car that we love against a new or very low mileage very conventional small vehicle that will not let us down in the middle of nowhere! (We are both pensioners).
At this point in time we are awaiting a call from Eden Vauxhall to say if they can even carry out the work at the horrendous “ball park” price they have just quoted!
Your post has given us hope! Many thanks.
Near which town or village in Oxfordshire BTW ?
Bill N.
Edited by Bill Naulder on 12/01/2017 at 15:14
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Hi Bill
I would avoid the main dealer as previous posts suggest. Its just not there thing.
Maybe a good look around the vehicle might assure you of a few more years of service. Corrosion will be a factor. Generally the Frontera ages pretty well, front and rear cross members, brake pipes, will eventually need attention.
You can e-mail me? I can give you a bit more background on my Mechanics business. I'm sure he can acurately price up the job.
chriswhenaway@hotmail.co.uk
Cheers
Chris
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Be very very careful before entrusting your car to a mechanic who just happens to be a mate of a poster on a Forum.
Would you let the mate of a chap you met in a pub fix your car before you checked up on him, something you could presumably do quite easilly if they were local
You could simply loose money, but it could be worse, much worse.
There are strange things happen out there in the world.
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Agreed. I want to introduce them and let them decide themselves. He would supply references/other customer contacts no doubt.
I am very cautious recommending people to people. I believe there is a good match here.
Chris
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Be very very careful before entrusting your car to a mechanic who just happens to be a mate of a poster on a Forum.
I was beginning to lean towards Chris’s offer until I read “Skidpans” post which planted seeds of caution in my mind.
I had to ask myself just why any contact with “his mechanic” has to done through him? Furthermore, why is Chris so reluctant to provide me with more details regarding his “friends” location?
Something just doesn’t smell right to me so I’m ruling out that option!
My next task is to get a rough idea of just what the car might be worth in terms of “Trade in”?
Namely, a one owner, carefully looked after:-
2003 Vauxhall Frontera 4x4 Limited edition
3.2L V6 (Vauxhall certified) “interference type” Petrol engine”
Only 55,000 miles from new
Cambelt due for change at 80,000 miles (official).
Fitted at new with limited slip differential.
Side steps
Triple Air horns
Fitted towball and electrics at rear
Fitted offset towball on front
Full MOT (10 th Jan 2017)
Never been damaged (other than the odd (car park) scratch)
Bill N.
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"My next task is to get a rough idea of just what the car might be worth in terms of “Trade in”?"
You can forget price guides on something this age, they're meaningless. All you can do is look around at what others are priced at and currently there are two similar V6's on Autotrader one (an automatic) with a dealer at £1,495 and a private sale manual at £1,250. Neither as nice as yours by the sounds of it so I'd say your car if advertised privately should be priced at £1,795 with a view to achieve £1,500. However a large thirsty V6 4wd isn't an easy sell so it might sit for a while. There are a few diesels in between £1-£1.5k.
As for trade in value, well you'll be lucky to get £500-£700 unless the motor you're looking at is substantially overpriced. Our local Mazda dealer for example offers strong trade in money but their stock is between £500-£2,000 over book retail value.
Take it with you and get a few prices when you go looking and bear in mind you'll get £200-£300 discount in general on any car over say £5k without trading in. If you've space and can face the hassle it'll definitely be worth your while selling privately but you'll need to either SORN it or keep the insurance running on it while you sell it.
If I was local to you I'd be tempted myself.
Edited by SLO76 on 13/01/2017 at 23:21
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Many thanks to all who contributed to my thread, in particular SLO76 who's post was very helpful indeed, just the sort of info I was hoping for.
Great shame you're not local, would you care to name which county?
No offence if you'd rather not!
Bill N.
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Happy to help Bill. I'm up in sunny Ayrshire by the sea.
Andrew.
Edited by SLO76 on 14/01/2017 at 16:22
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Ah, very handy for the "Electric Brae" then Andrew!
Bill N.
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Ah, very handy for the "Electric Brae" then Andrew!
Bill N.
Not so handy if you're enjoying a spin along the coast road and you encounter some idiot in the middle of the road trying to roll up the thing...
It's a lovely twisty wee road I travel regularly.
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If yours has an Isuzu engine like this..........
mm-opelparts.com//userfiles/menm/6970000024/large/...G
........I would leave well alone, as the design is similar to the old Audi V6 with a long sturdy belt driving a couple of small inlet cams with the exhaust cams being driven by two other belts, or chains in the case of the Audi. These V6 belts hardly ever break, especially post 2000 by which time belt materials had improved greatly. The water pump is lightly driven by the back of the belt. It is a very unstressy design with longevity in mind, and I think would probably still work well at 20yrs and 100,000m.
This engine is also, judging from the various arguments on various websites, a non-interference engine. So if it works and is not worth much, don't mend it!
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"Obviously it would have to be relatively cost effective but at present it would appear that the only alternative would be to trade in what is a perfectly good running car that we love against a new or very low mileage very conventional small vehicle that will not let us down in the middle of nowhere! (We are both pensioners)."
You'll get next to nothing for it trading it in sadly. It is however quite a rare and unusual car and if it's genuinely tidy and runs well I'd advertise it privately if you feel up to the task. You'll get much more money but will have to deal with a fair number of plonkers. I'd stick it on Autotrader or Gumtree (which is free) but I personally leave only an email contact to divert time wasters and nuisance calls.
Buying a smaller run of the mill hatchback would be a sensible move in my eyes if budget suits. Easier to maintain, less likely to go wrong, it'll be vastly more fuel efficient and despite the bulk of your old Frontera it doesn't score well for crash safety. But keeping the old car and just running it into the ground is another option I'd be thinking of. There's not much point on spending a fortune on a t/belt change on a car with little value and this job won't really enhance that. Take out RAC cover instead.
Edited by SLO76 on 13/01/2017 at 09:59
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The chap Chris has come in for some criticism/implications he most likely doesn't deserve.
He's not going to put his ex colleague's details on open forum, nor would i, if he did someone would complain about advertising, far as i can see he was offering to provide details if the OP emailed him that the OP could verify for themselves, can't see how he could have been fairer than that.
People have decided there is something not right here, so that avenue is probably now closed, as such its just as well the garage wasn't named or guilt by association might apply.
Incidentally Chris i probably visited where you and your mate used to work when i delivered Subarus out of the import centre at Gloucester, i always liked rural Subaru dealerships, old fashioned, and none the worse for that, ways about the places.
Edited by gordonbennet on 13/01/2017 at 23:34
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Hello,
My grandparents have exactly the same vauxhall frontera model and engine as you have. The have recently had the timing belt looked at and it stills looks like new, the car is a 2001 and has done 130,000 miles on its original belt. The have owned it from new and have had it reguarly serviced.
The were going to have the timing belt replaced but after a through check by the mechanic, there is rust on the sills, towbar, underfloor/subframe, just to much to justify fixing it and replacing timing belts, so they are running it until its MOT expires.
My point is that the belt has not snapped and still looks absoultely fine.
I would not worry,
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Thanks a million KCSRenault. Your very welcome post has just confirmed our final decision to keep the car without changing the cambelt.
I think I can now safely reveal that Eden Vauxhall had quoted £1300 to change the belt and its associated parts including the waterpump (£700 parts plus £600 labour).
Guided by SLO76's previous post we realise that even if sold privately, the car is still only worth probably about £1500 to £1750 so we may as well just keep it till it dies, (or I do), whichever is sooner! Lol.
I might add that the car has virtually no serious rust anywhere although I must confess that I have not looked underneath it for at least three years, mainly because when I do, I can't get up again!
The only current niggling fault it has is the screen of the dashboard computer.
The computer itself is perfectly accurate but the display can sometimes be difficult to read because tiny bits of some of the digits are no longer illuminated.
Hope all this info serves to help anyone else in the same boat.
Bill N.
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£1,300 to change a timing belt!!!!!!!!!!!
That figure is nonsense and is simply the dealer letting you know they don't want the job.
Realistically even the most complex belt change will cost no more than £500-£600 but this is so old and rare that the only way you'll find someone who's confident about the job is to head to an Isuzu dealer or specialist 4wd workshop. But personally I'd leave it and I'm pretty confident it'll run for years yet.
Best of luck!
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just my 2 pence worth, timing belt mileage intervals are one thing but age is another they do degrage my renault had 46000 on it, it was a 2005 car so although low milage most would think no problem but they do dry out and degrage a simple solution is to buy a can of belt conditioner pop the top belt cover off and spray it once a year with the engine running along with the auxilury belts as well keeps them in good shape !
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Thanks for the tip Peter, didn't know such products were available.
Bill N.
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There is not one single manufacturer that recomends or even suggests cam belt dressing. If they did exist their use would be made warranty/service requirement and a suitable fee to the annual service added.
They are simply snake oil and should be avoided. The could well do more harm that good if they contaminate bearings.
No doubt JohnF will be along shortly with a link to the prduct he uses that has nothing to do with automotive drive belts.
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