VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 10:26
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
Hi all, purchased a 2011 Polo GTI for the wife in November. 40k on the clocks.

Within 6 weeks and 800 miles, the oil low light has appeared (was full on collection) which means it's used A litre of oil in that time. This spurred me on to research this and it seems it's a lot more common than I first though with these early GTI engines that came out in 2010. Tons of evidence out there of people having engine replacements under warranty, oil consumption tests, piston ring changes etc etc.

My polo has no record of any of this work being carried out by VW. It has 4 previous owners and the service book shows evidence of multiple oil changes close together before then being part exchanged.

Spoke to well known car supermarket who I purchased off and they said run for another 1000 miles and see if it happens again. That was the plan and then just a couple days ago the coolant has dropped a massive amount. They have advised top fluids up and get it back to them, which is my next step.

However the whole thing has got me quite worried about the car and I feel as if it's just a ticking time bomb to be honest. I've looked into rejecting the car but it seems I must give them one opportunity to repair the car before I have case for rejection.

Anyone any tips for me if possible? I'm not the best at this kind of legal stuff anyway but want make sure I go about it correctly.

Tried to email them with a list of faults etc but they just directed me to a form on the website you fill out and then they call you back so I have nothing in writing as it stands.

Should I make them aware that if the repair is unsuccessful I will be wanting to reject the car or stay quiet until the car is back?

Edited by Stobo91 on 28/12/2016 at 10:30

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 10:33
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - barney100

I reckon you should reject the car for the reasons you have given, send a letter by special delivery to that effect. In the mentime go to citizen's advice and find out exactly where you stand.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 10:46
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - gordonbennet

You presumably knew before you bought it that i had 4 previous keepers, not such a good sign, and that it appears to have a very good service history, lots of oil changes can only be a good thing.

Does the vehicle have a dipstick, or is it on the dash and does the dash show the actual level or just ok for anything between full and just above min, or is it calibrated so you know exactly how much oil is in the sump, because unless you have phsically seen it go from full to min (and does it really take a litre between min and max?) you can't be sure exactly how much oil it has used, same with the coolant have you been checking under the bonnet weekly?

So far i can't see the sales place has done anything worng, they first of all asked you to re-check oil use, it may be that i uses half a litre every 800 miles which isn't exactly unusual for VW group petrol engines, and have now asked you to bring the car in to presumably investigate the coolant loss.

At the moment, though far from an expert i can't see you have anything to worry about, let alone start a rejection process, another 800 miles if it really does use a full 1 litre then that might be grounds for some sort of engine rebuild (i haven't a clue how much these things have to use before rebuild is considered) and continues to use coolant then it might need work, but so far as i can see they appear happy to look at the car and quite reasonably asked you (before coolant loss) to monitor oil use for another few weeks.

You have your concerns, and their replies presumably in writing or email saved, so the faults, if they turn out to be faults at all, are registered, so if it turns out to need work i can't see you have any problems yet, they haven't tried to fob you off or tell you to contact some provider of worthless aftermarket warranty.

The internet is a great source of info, but best to spend some time researching before buying, once you've bought if you then research after the event that info can become a worrisome burden.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 10:59
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
Thanks for the quick replies.

Oh yes I agree the garage have been good so far in. Although I'm no mechanic and I didn't know if the car was actually driveable or not and he said the only options are for ME to organise recovery to them or top fluids up and drive it back to them.

I've done a fair bit of research on this engine/model etc and I've read multiple times that from max to min is 1litre of oil. It has a physical dipstick and it was full on collection. When the warning message appeared on dash I checked it and it was wel below minimum. It took over 1litre to return it back to maximum.

That's the thing though I don't have anything in writing as it stands. I'm on my way their shortly to hand the car over so I will ask for something then.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 11:23
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - RobJP

If it's past 4 weeks, then you can't unilaterally reject it (as one other post has suggested), as that right has expired.

You have, as you've realiesd, to give them one attempt to carry out a fix. If that fails, then you will have the right to reject - note that you CAN give them further opportunities to fix, but it is YOUR choice, not theirs.

It is also your responsibility, at your cost, to get the vehicle back to them. Do also note that they are under no obligation to keep you mobile while your car is with them.

They will, as it's after the first month, be allowed to make a 'reasonable deduction' from any refund for the use you've had of the car. That's where it might get sticky, of course.

However, cross that bridge when (and if) you come to it.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 12:06
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
Thank you for clarifying some things for me.

Ok they have the car and I've got a courtesy.

When they finished with it I'll get it back with a report of what's been completed.

They did say however manufacturers give guidelines on oil consumption and if it's around 1litre per 1000 miles then that's within the limits. I personally think mine is worse as I've done 800 miles and it took over 1 litre to top up to max.

If I get it back and then 1000miles later and it's still the same would I have grounds for rejection then? As they have already had an opportunity to fix and personally without an oil consumption test carried out no one is going to know how bad the problem is until I've driven another 1000 miles which could take up 3 months.
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Wed 28 Dec 2016 12:39
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Andrew-T

I don't think you have a strong case to reject the car, if it's roadworthy and in the condition as originally advertised. I wouldn't want a car that uses that amount of oil or coolant, but it's close to the advised tolerance, and it does warn you to top up reliably.

As you are now well aware of this behaviour it is easy for you to take preventive measures by lifting the bonnet regularly - as we of the 'old school' are used to doing. If you otherwise like the car you can choose to live with it, or you can do what the previous owners have done - move it on after a decent period.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 13:04
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - RobJP

I don't think you have a strong case to reject the car, if it's roadworthy and in the condition as originally advertised. I wouldn't want a car that uses that amount of oil or coolant, but it's close to the advised tolerance, and it does warn you to top up reliably.

As you are now well aware of this behaviour it is easy for you to take preventive measures by lifting the bonnet regularly - as we of the 'old school' are used to doing. If you otherwise like the car you can choose to live with it, or you can do what the previous owners have done - move it on after a decent period.

Basically, that's it. If a manufacturer quotes a certain amount of oil use as 'acceptable', even if it's definitely not 'ideal', then there's nothing you can do.

A valuable but possibly expensive lesson. Research before purchase is a lot better than research after problems. Take solace in the fact that you know that for the future.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 13:45
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
That's my point though, 1 litre in 1000 miles is the limit on acceptable. I've used a minimum of 1 litre in 800 miles which is way more excessive than the manufacturer limits.

If it comes back the same I will be having an oil consumption test done, if it proves it's not within the limits then I will take things further. There are countless forum threads about these specific engines using too much oil and VW having to do major work including replacement engines. They later released a revised engine in 2012.

If the tests comes back as it's within limits then I will be happy with keeping my eye on it but while I'm still under warranty from the dealer I want it checking out.

It's a cracking little car and perfect for us but I don't want to be left with a major bill in a year or so time when I've got no warranty.
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Wed 28 Dec 2016 15:03
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - RobJP

I'd agree with you about the extra oil consumption - IF it was a new car.

However, the Consumer Rights Act (on which you would be rejecting the car, if it came to it), goes on about a person's 'reasonable expectations' - and you can't 'reasonably expect' a 5 year old car to be as good as a brand new one.

If the limit on oil consumption for a new car is 1L per 1k miles, then the limit when several years old must almost automatically be more, due to engine wear.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 16:07
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
Understood, thanks.

They have already looked into coolant problem and it was waterpump leaking/failing so that's being replaced tomorrow which is a relief. Very impressed with the speed and service. They were also willing to look into doing the cambelt at the same time at my expense but it's a chain so no need.

Edited by Stobo91 on 28/12/2016 at 16:07

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 16:24
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Bromptonaut

Soembody upthread suggested contacting CAB.

An adviser will probably direct you in first instance to content on their website:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repai.../

Or contact the consumer helpline on - 03454 04 05 06

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 16:25
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - gordonbennet

Sounds ok so far, dealer seems to be behaving quite reasonably, kept you mobile too, we've heard a lot worse here.

When you get it back, i'd be inclined to get someone you trust to either follow you whilst you put it through its paces or follow it yourself, letting it overrun for a good distance then go back under power and generally give it a bit of thrashing, give you an idea if there's any smoke or smells of smoke, if its stinks or chucks out smoke then maybe its time to escalate, if its clean and smell free then maybe things arn't so bad after all, all those oil changes haven't done it any harm.

If its running well, and you do seem to like it, then i'd also be inclined to cut a tiny nick into the dipstick at half way mark and top the oil up to max from that point so it never reaches min, this way you can still keep an accurate record of oil usage whilst not letting the car get down to min.

Carefully bought by the 5 litre can top quality oils are still cheap.

Edited by gordonbennet on 28/12/2016 at 16:26

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 16:27
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - skidpan
They were also willing to look into doing the cambelt at the same time at my expense but it's a chain so no need.

The chain on some VAG cars of this time had issues so its crazy not to change it when the opportunity comes cheap .i.e. they are doing the labour already, all you need to do is pay for any additional parts.

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Wed 28 Dec 2016 16:55
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - Stobo91
Will definitely check out CAB thanks.

Never really noticed any blue/smoke but yes this will be worthwhile doing .

Apparently the chain is nothing to do wth the pump on these engines so they wouldn't do it when I asked.
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Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:15
VW Polo GTI - Used car problems - help with rejecting car - gordonbennet
Apparently the chain is nothing to do wth the pump on these engines so they wouldn't do it when I asked.

Can't say i blame them, a timing chain is a lot more involved than a belt change.

Also if an engine needs a preventative timing chain change at 40k miles, the designers and makers should be publicly flogged then forced to refund every innocent victim (customer) of their utter imcompetence.

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