Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

We've decided to look for a replacement for our 6 year old current model Polo, we could do with more space and a bit more comfort. Most of our journeys are short local ones with the occasional longer trip and we average about 7000 miles per year. Our driving pattern makes a petrol engine seem like the logical choice but some models which are attractive, such as BMW tourings in 3 and 5 series, and V70 Volvo estates, are almost impossible to find in petrol form. ( We're looking at either new or up to 3 years used) We are also considering Quashqais and X Trails, and although there are a few petrol versions about they are far less common and I am concerned that when trying to resell they will be harder to shift. On the other hand I am reading less and less positive about diesels too, with suggestions they will be banned from some cities. Any opinions on diesel v petrol in our position?

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - SLO76
Your usage excludes the option of a modern DPF equipped diesel unless you're willing to waste some of the fuel you'd save by taking it for an unnecessary run every few days to allow the DPF to regenerate. I'd stick to a normally aspirated petrol engine, it's less likely to give bother.

All depends on your budget but I'd avoid the prestige brands and stick to mainstream stuff that tends to ride a little better, costs less to buy and maintain. How much do you want to spend?
Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

We've got around £20k, plus the trade in value of the Polo. We've driven a Tiguan and a Seat Alteca, both of which have reasonable petrol engines but the Tiguan has been recently updated and the Alteca is brand new, so a 2 year old model is not really an option, unless we choose an older version of the Tiguan.

If you look on eBay at BMW petrol estates, year 2014, there are 106 diesels, 9 petrol. Volvo V70, same year, no petrol models at all. I'd like to test drive a petrol 5 series touring, there are none at local dealers.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - SLO76
Large petrol prestige estates are almost non-existent and hard work to sell on again so I'd personally forget the 5 series or an E class. Servicing costs are high and you'd lose in higher depreciation almost everything you'd save by opting for non-dealer maintenance on something prestige and high value.

You've a strong budget and if you want to stick to petrol you could buy a very nice Golf GTi which despite the sporty pretension isn't a hard riding pocket rocket like the Focus ST or Type R Civic. It's a comfortable, refined, spacious, well made car with all the performance and comfort you could ask for.

One that doesn't suffer higher depreciation than it's diesel counterpart unlike most SUV's such as the Tiguan and probably the Alteca. Though I do like the look of the Seat and also the new Tiguan but the latest model is pricey and the last of the old model is looking dated in my eyes.

A work colleague has a 64 plate 2.0 TDi Tiguan and it's a very pleasant thing to drive but it has no more interior space than a Golf, doesn't ride or handle as well, costs more, does fewer mpg and seems to offer no advantages other than a raised ride hight.

There's also a new Honda Civic due out shortly which sounds promising with what will likely be excellent new turbocharged petrol engines.
Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - RobJP

BMW's AUC website is currently showing 69 3 series petrol estates up to 3 years old. 5 series are a lot rarer, with only 3 on the system. Do note that you'd need to select 'up to 2 years old' on the filters, as it views the current year age as 0. Selecting 'up to 3 yrs old' gives year 2013 cars as well.

Volvo's AUC site has no petrol V70s for sale. Would the XC60 be a possibility ? 6 of those in petrol up on the site, and I know of 2 people who've got them who think they're great.

Agreed, diesel is really not suitable for your mileage.

Edited by RobJP on 21/11/2016 at 23:09

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Avant

Maybe something with the VW Group 1.4 TSI petrol engine would suit? This engine is well thought of and will probably help a car to hold its value.

Depending on the size you want, I'd suggest you look at the Octavia and Golf (hatch or estate in each case). A full service history is essential if you buy used, although your budget would get you a new one.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

"You've a strong budget and if you want to stick to petrol you could buy a very nice Golf GTi"

Funnily enough this was the first car we tested, as we have happy memories of a Mk2 GTi, one of our two favourite cars we have owned ( the other being a petrol Range Rover, hugely expensive to run but a lovely ride) but although I liked it my wife was less keen. Golfs are on the list still, perhaps a less sporty spec, although I did notice the 1.4 TSi is 150 hp ( or PS or whatever it is now called) which I'm sure the Mk2 GTi was. The Ateca is also available with a 1.4, although we tested the 1litre, which despite sounding on paper very underpowered was actually great to drive. The Tiguan is also available with a 1.4 TSi engine and is probably high on the possibles list, as my wife is keen on the SUV ride height. We have also had very good experience with out local VW dealer, and as customer service is important to us that does go in the Tiguan / Golf's favour. It is also a reson we ruled out the Quashqai, which does come in a petrol version but our experience of trying to deal with the sales staff at our local Nissan dealer put us right off. We did set out with the idea of buying new, and spending more than the 20k if necessary, but the inital depreciation on a new car has put us off a bit, and a 2 year old car seems a good compromise but does rule out the Alteca, which has only just launched.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - daveyjp

If BMW is on your list consider the 3 series GT - hatchback with a longer wheelbase than the 3 series, so plenty of rear legroom and boot space.

However I test drove a 320i and it was sluggish, there were a few ergonomic issues with the seat and dash layout and the manual gearbox was also not the best.

A 328i auto should be a better option.

Others to consider are BMW 2 series active tourer and Mercedes B class,

Edited by daveyjp on 22/11/2016 at 07:58

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

We have a largish dog so need a 5th door ideally. I'm not a big fan of the 2 series tourer styling I'm afraid. We are both graphic designers and are very fussy about the way something looks, possibly too fussy but can't change the habits of a lifetime. I'm starting to look favourably at a Golf now, higher spec but not a GTi.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

We have a largish dog so need a 5th door ideally. I'm not a big fan of the 2 series tourer styling I'm afraid but the 3 series GT looks interesting and there are a few petrol versions around, including one in Norwich which isn't that far from me so thanks for that suggestion. We are both graphic designers and are very fussy about the way something looks, possibly too fussy but can't change the habits of a lifetime. I'm starting to look favourably at a Golf now, higher spec but not a GTi.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Palcouk

If your wife likes the ride height of an SUV, then consider, RAV4 Hybrid, Kia Niro or Suzuki Vitara boosterjet.

I've tested the first two, prefered the Rav4 as I will be changing in Jan.

Personally I'm not convinced of long term reliability/costs on a BMW or VW group cars (They are all OK if changed every 3 years)

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - SLO76
The Ateca is brand new and likely to be in demand so should hold its value fairly well for the first few years while used examples are scarce plus I like the idea of a quirky small capacity 3cyl engine, I've a 3cyl Polo TDi the same shape as your own that's an entertaining wee car to row along the road. It's one I'd certainly be looking at.

As for the Golf. The reason I suggested the GTi has more to do with depreciation than performance. Higher spec petrol Golfs aren't that great at holding on to their value without that desirable GTi badge.

The versions I'd be looking at with a view to retention of value outside of the diesels and GTi would be the 1.4 TSi Match with the 122bhp unit or the newer 113bhp 1.0 as used in the Ateca. Both are plenty strong enough, offer low running costs and plenty of spec but don't cost as much as the GT.

I've had similar experiences with our local dealers too strangely enough. The VW branch can't do enough to help and our cars are always returned spotless with everything done efficiently plus several out of warranty goodwill claims have been successfully persued by them on my behalf without any effort on my part. The local Nissan dealer is the polar opposite. Irritatingly aggressive sales tactics and terrible after sales. The Qashqai is really a rebodied Renault Megane anyway.

If you want either of the VAG cars mentioned above then do so with the current generation of each as the firm have stated their intention to cost cut in order to absorb the cost of the diesel emissions scandal. Putting pressure on suppliers to cut costs and aiming for.lower design and build costs won't benefit punters one bit. VAG cars today are as good as they'll get for a long time to come.
Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

If you are considering a Golf one other car you should be looking at is the Seat Leon. We have had a 1.4 TSi 140 PS for 3 1/2 years and its been absolutely faultless. Does everything a Golf would do for a lot less money (when we bought it £5000 less than a Golf with the exact same engine). Bigger than a Polo so that part of your brief is matched, go and see/try one.

We have just ordered a new Skoda Superb. We need a bigger car but loved the1.4 TSi engine so much that in reality the Superb was the only sensible choice. ££££'s less than similar sized VW's and Audi's and every bit as good. Even with the 1.4 TSi engine the car is well capable of safely overtaking slow traffic on A roads which is always one of my requirements.

When my Leon goes into the trade next March someone is going to get an absolute bargain. Will be very sorry to see it go. Would probably keep it for the wife if the Note she has did not match her needs perfectly regarding carrying a wheelchair etc for her aged mother.

As for our local dealers the VW are pretty pathetic. Been 3 times now since June 2015, you struggle to get a sales persons attention and as soon as you say the "petrol" word they loose what bit of interest they might have initially shown. The Nissan lot were much better. Really keen on selling a car and did a deal that made brokers look expensive without much hard negotiating, located a car over 100 miles away and shipped it down for us. The Skoda dealer has been excellent especially when you consider we have been about 5 times in a week, tried 3 cars and have been very picky regarding the order details and spec. In the salesmans shoes I would have been thinking I was a tyre kicker.

We liked the Qashqai very much and we liked the new Tiguan, we even looked at the X-Trail which was actually my favourite of the breed. But I am not a huge fan of these faux offroaders (just weigh more and use more fuel than their hatch siblings) and the wife found that getting into the passenger seat in every model we tried caused hip pain, not a great feature.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

We'll definitely tale a look at Seat again, the staff were almost as helpful as VW, Nissan were so poor I wrote to the managing director to complain and although I had an email back from the local sales director inviting us back I'm afraid the damage was done. When the VW driver came to pick me up to collect my car after its last service he did comment that he goes to pick up customers from Colchester ( I'm in Ipswich) and Clacton as people like the local VW dealer here and are not happy with other dealers so it's definitely pot luck whether you have a dealer that suits, but good service is important to us.

Skoda still has a lingering bad PR image for me, however out of date and inaccurate that is, it's hard to shake off. I know they get great reviews and I will make the effort to go and look. Toyota Rav is a possible, we did look at one many years ago when they first came out but we bought a Freelander instead, purely down to interior quality, the early Rav's looked a bit plasticky we felt but again, will check them out as we have had 2 Toyota's in the past and had great service from them.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Bladerrw

Having gone through the process of choosing a biggish estate recently, I found the Audi A4, Mondeo and Hyundai i40 to be the most available petrol solutions.

In the end, I crossed my fingers and bought a new diesel A6. Doing mixed town and long journeys it has been cheap to maintain and reliable over 36k miles and 3.5 years.

I could sell it now to WBAC and have suffered £3.5k pa depreciation and be saying "What diesel problems?"

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

I must admit a Mondeo estate is hovering on the bottom of the radar, a family member has a Modeo ST which I was impressed by, I do have a lingering irrational anti Ford prejudice for some reason, probably based on the rep-mobile image.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - SLO76

I must admit a Mondeo estate is hovering on the bottom of the radar, a family member has a Modeo ST which I was impressed by, I do have a lingering irrational anti Ford prejudice for some reason, probably based on the rep-mobile image.

The Mondeo suffers horrific depreciation particularly the petrol variants. Certainly means there are used bargains to be had but I wouldn't want to invest much money into one. A previous gen 1.6 ecoboost petrol Estate bought for the right money could make a good big family wagon. I'll admit to being tempted by an immaculate low mileage 2.5T Titanium at a Ford main dealer a few years back that they were literally throwing away. The 25mpg thirst stopped me. The diesels have a tarnished reputation via problems with the now notorious 1.6 PSA units. The new 1.5 is apparently a redesign of this engine so hopefully Ford have fixed it properly. The petrol units are reliable however if looked after though I'm excluding the 1.0 3cyl which I can't imagine is man enough for the job and is developing a reputation as a soft engine too. Again it was hastily re-engineered which supposedly cured this but only time will tell. Nice big cars to drive though.

Edited by SLO76 on 22/11/2016 at 10:12

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Bladerrw

Avensis Touring? 1.8 Petrol appears to only be £16k on Drive the Deal.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

Avensis Touring? 1.8 Petrol appears to only be £16k on Drive the Deal.

I did see one the other day which I initially thought was a Mondeo from the rear, I'll definitely add that to the possibles as we have had good experience with Toyota in the past.

Edited to add (a) I'm not sure about the looks , particularly the front view, and (b) there are zero petrol models within 60 miles of me, only diesels.

Edited by lordwoody on 22/11/2016 at 13:00

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

Drove an Avensis 1.8 Tourer back in 2010. Mechanically identical to todays cars but the front end was different. Even back then it was a gutless wonder. When the salesman swapped over with me he pulled into a laybye at the side of a dual carriageway. Pulling out into traffic would have been no problem for our Focus C-Max 1.6 TDCi, in the Avensis it turned out to be a bit like a Dirty Harry movie, "are you feeling lucky". Loads of revs was the order of the day but not a car I would recommend. Probably fine as a Taxi for town use.

The electric hand brake button was also in a stupid place under the steering wheel.

Compared to any VAG TSi its a slug.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

Skoda still has a lingering bad PR image for me, however out of date and inaccurate that is, it's hard to shake off.

Skoda had a deserved bad image until VW took over and started to put their DNA into the cars in the early 90's. Cars before VW's involvement were on the verge of being dangerous with their rear engines and swinging axles but since the first Felicia things have changed.

I know the JD Power type surveys have their critics (me included) but Skoda have been consistently at or near the top for over 10 years now so that must mean something.

30 years ago there is no way I would have bought a Seat or Skoda.

20 years ago I looked at both and they were close but not quite there with specs at the the time. Bought a Polo.

14 years ago looked at an Octavia Estate but at the time the rear seat space was very poor so left it at that. Bought a Mondeo

6 years ago looked at the Octavia Estate again, Plenty of rear seat space by then but noisy rear suspension/tyres so walked away. Bought a Kia Ceed estate.

3 years ago bought a Seat Leon, best car its its class without a doubt.

Now just ordered a Skoda Superb. Tried the Octavia again, hatch seemed fine but the estate still suffered from a noisy rear.

It might be hard for you to shake off the old image but a vast number of car buyers appear to accept the bad cars were in the past.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Bianconeri

Skoda still has a lingering bad PR image for me, however out of date and inaccurate that is, it's hard to shake off.

Skoda had a deserved bad image until VW took over and started to put their DNA into the cars in the early 90's. Cars before VW's involvement were on the verge of being dangerous with their rear engines and swinging axles but since the first Felicia things have changed.

I know the JD Power type surveys have their critics (me included) but Skoda have been consistently at or near the top for over 10 years now so that must mean something.

30 years ago there is no way I would have bought a Seat or Skoda.

20 years ago I looked at both and they were close but not quite there with specs at the the time. Bought a Polo.

14 years ago looked at an Octavia Estate but at the time the rear seat space was very poor so left it at that. Bought a Mondeo

6 years ago looked at the Octavia Estate again, Plenty of rear seat space by then but noisy rear suspension/tyres so walked away. Bought a Kia Ceed estate.

3 years ago bought a Seat Leon, best car its its class without a doubt.

Now just ordered a Skoda Superb. Tried the Octavia again, hatch seemed fine but the estate still suffered from a noisy rear.

It might be hard for you to shake off the old image but a vast number of car buyers appear to accept the bad cars were in the past.

For me, Skoda service and reliability is nothing but a myth. I've had exactly one Skoda (back in 2010) and it was utterly awful - unreliable, poorly built and with awful backup. JD Power is based on expectations and if you expect to see your dealer four or five times a year then..... This summer I had Skoda hire cars (Octavia VRs petrol) for about 3000km - terrible, uncomfortable, noisy things. The first was replaced by one that was worse. Ever the pragmatist I tried a Superb petrol a couple of months ago too, couldn't get on with it at all. Hope you do better and it works for you.

Edited by Bianconeri on 22/11/2016 at 14:20

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - RT

Every brand, gets the odd lemon, no exceptions at any price - dismissing a brand because of a single lemon may not be a wise move - it's certainly not statistically sound.

Edited by RT on 22/11/2016 at 14:35

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Bianconeri

Every brand, gets the odd lemon, no exceptions at any price - dismissing a brand because of a single lemon may not be a wise move - it's certainly not statistically sound.

Which is exactly why I tried another..... and didn't buy one...... Mrs BN has had one loathsome and unreliable car in her driving career - the Yaris that so many in here laud to high heaven. It was a car I would have cheerfully driven to the crusher We still had Toyota on our list of possibles this year but the local dealers have been pretty abysmal.
Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

This summer I had Skoda hire cars (Octavia VRs petrol) for about 3000km - terrible, uncomfortable, noisy things. The first was replaced by one that was worse. Ever the pragmatist I tried a Superb petrol a couple of months ago too, couldn't get on with it at all. Hope you do better and it works for you.

As I said in the other thread I could not get on with the Octavia. The hatch was fine but for some wind noise (may have been a one off) but the estate was just plain noisy so we said no. The hatch had the 1.4 TSi just like my Leon and its was just the same magic engine. The Estate had the 2 litre diesel and it reminded me why I have not bought a VAG diesel since 1996. Had 2 ford diesels, a Kia diesel and and a BMW diesel all of which were great but all the VAG diesels I have tried have been truly horrid. Noisy, unrefined and incredibly poor throttle progression to name but 3 issues. Bothe cars rode well enough and the seats were identical to those my Seat so no issues there.

The Superb felt good from turning the key. None of the issues noted above, basically it met our brief.

For me, Skoda service and reliability is nothing but a myth

Seat service has been nothing to write home about, one out of the 3 garages has been fine, I would not visit the other 2 again. Reliability has been perfect. The local Skoda dealer gets good reviews (not perfect but who is - at least the wingers comments have been left on) and so far they have done all I have asked including modifying the order T & C's to match my requirements.

I go into car buying with my eyes open. Even the fabled Handa and Toyota have sold unreliable cars and I have seen our fleet guy have major issues with both of those brands in the past. You just have to hope you get a good one.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - madf

Beekeeping friend ran an Octavia to 190k miles with diy only. Unsurprisingly he has bought another and plans to do the same.

Personally I would not touch them as I loathe VAG...

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Big John

For me, Skoda service and reliability is nothing but a myth. I've had exactly one Skoda (back in 2010) and it was utterly awful - unreliable, poorly built and with awful backup. JD Power is based on expectations and if you expect to see your dealer four or five times a year then..... This summer I had Skoda hire cars (Octavia VRs petrol) for about 3000km - terrible, uncomfortable, noisy things. The first was replaced by one that was worse. Ever the pragmatist I tried a Superb petrol a couple of months ago too, couldn't get on with it at all. Hope you do better and it works for you.

Not my experience:-

2001 Skoda Octavia 1.4 16v owned from new - still going strong 120k miles

2003 Skoda Superb 1.9pd owned from 18months - sold last year after 170kmiles - brilliant car, still on original exhaust, battery & clutch (new owner now at 190k miles!)

2014 Skoda Superb 1.4tsi - faultless thus far - now 37k miles

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Avant

As you have a big dog, you could find an estate better for accese, particularly as the dog gets older.

I've been measuring cars for my elder daughter, who is a nanny and has started to need a double buggy, for which her otherwise excellent Hyundai i10 isn't ideal.

The buggy will just about fit into small crossovers like the Renault Captur and Golf SV (these two have rear seats that can be moved forward) but it fits much more comfortably into a SEAT Leon ST. One of these with the 1.4 TFSI petrol engine could suit you.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - bazza

I agree with Skidpan, my Mk 2 1.9PD estate is horrendously noisy and after 3 new wheel bearings is only slightly better. It's also suffered from the VAG platform uneven rear tyre wear and saw-toothing. Even our 13 year old Corolla is much quieter. It's a great engine but component quality, trim and general robustness of the rest of the car is no better than average, in fact worse in some aspects. I say this as a fan, having a Mk 1 to 100K and this one to 80K. It will be replaced with a Japanese petrol of some form, as I don't believe these issues are will be sorted in the latest model, despite it being my kind of car. And VAG reliability ratings are not good.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - sandy56

Have a look at the new Peugeot 308 and 2008 with rather good petrol engines. I would prefer the 308 but just a tad too small for me. 2008 is a possible, or even the 3008.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

I'm not keen on French cars, I just don't have faith in their reliability, particularly longer term. That may be terrible prejudice but they just don't appeal.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - Avant

There's an important safety-related reason not to buy any Peugeot or Citroen which has its heater and aircon settings adjusted only by touchscreen. This is potentially dangerous: I don't think it applies to all Peugeots and Citroens but anyone thinking of buying one should check.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

There's an important safety-related reason not to buy any Peugeot or Citroen which has its heater and aircon settings adjusted only by touchscreen. This is potentially dangerous: I don't think it applies to all Peugeots and Citroens but anyone thinking of buying one should check.

This applies to the 308. Remember trying to turn the heater down in the one the salesman brought for us to sit in. Mild spring day, heater on full, how do you turn it down. You have to change to the correct menu on the radio display sir, and by the time you ahve found it you are probably into the back of another car.

But we did not take the 308 SW out onto the road for another reason. I am 5'9" and with the drivers seat in a normal position I could not sit behind myself. I believe the SW has a bit more leg room than the hatch, if that's true it must be really compromised.

Check if you are interested.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - bazza

Would have thought a Seat Leon estate or Superb estate would be ideal, in 1.4 tsi format, plus extend the warranty to 5 years. For above reasons, would not recommend Octavia on noise grounds, but Skidpan was v happy with a Leon I recall. No point paying more for the badge, it's all the same car. Also, no point at all in the diesel option at only 7K a year.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - corax

It will be replaced with a Japanese petrol of some form, as I don't believe these issues are will be sorted in the latest model, despite it being my kind of car. And VAG reliability ratings are not good.

Shame isn't it. They used to be my kind of car, but I got fed up of the niggly problems, like constant misted up windows from poor seals or electrics failing, and indifferent parts dealers. The staff in there looked like they'd been dealing with a constant barage of complaints grinding them down.

The Skoda Octavia soundproofing saga. It seems to be a steadfast refusal to soundproof the car because it might have an advantage over it's VW and Audi stablemates. I never heard complaints about the Mk1 Octavia in this regard. Lot's of complaints on the Skoda forums about this issue.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - brum

Vw has clearly stated over time where its brands stand in their hierarchy. Skoda is the budget brand, and as such it is deliberate policy for skoda cars to lack the sound proofing/deadening that its more upmarket sister brands have.

Although I am a multiple skoda owner, I must say the constant road roar etc is very tiring and disappointing. Latest drives in a variety of their latest models show no improvement and their diesel models are particularly noisy.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - RT

Vw has clearly stated over time where its brands stand in their hierarchy. Skoda is the budget brand, and as such it is deliberate policy for skoda cars to lack the sound proofing/deadening that its more upmarket sister brands have.

Although I am a multiple skoda owner, I must say the constant road roar etc is very tiring and disappointing. Latest drives in a variety of their latest models show no improvement and their diesel models are particularly noisy.

Skoda is now a mainstream brand, no longer budget, and like Hyundai/Kia is seriously challenging Ford/Vauxhall on both quality and value. Before the diesel scandal and it's financial effects, VW Group were considering introducing a budget brand.

Some may disagree, but VW Group would like Skoda/Seat in the mainstream sector, VW itself in premium and Audi in luxury

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - brum

Budget is in the context of vw brands. Its the bottom of the pile in vag boardroom eyes, meant for poor folk and poor countries.

That ironically has its advantages as well as its intended disadvantages.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - skidpan

but Skidpan was v happy with a Leon I recall

I have been more than happy with the Leon 1.4 SE 140 PS and still am. Its probably been the best car I have ever owned. I was happy with the 118D for 5 1/2 years, I was happy with the Mondeo 2.0 TDCI (incredible performance - surely had more than 130 PS - but the economy was rubbish at 38 average) and I was happy enough with the Mk2 Golf GTi to run 2 from 1986 to 1996, I was equally unhappy with the Cooper S, more hype than substance.

The real world abilities of the Leon match anything I have owned and its averaged almost 45 mpg (calculated). When I bought it I estimated that it would take over 60,000 miles for the diesel Leon 2.0 150 PS to break even (taking into account a better PX price) and I now know that to be true. The 1.4 TSI is without a doubt the best engine in the range.

I would have bought a Leon ST to replace it but for a few factors. We need more rear seat space and the ST is exactly the same as the hatch. To get the 150 PS engine its FR trim and we do not want sports suspension, 45 profile tyres and 1/2 plastic sports seats. If we had been able to get the ST in SE trim with the 150 PS engine I might have been able (just) to overlook the rear seat space since I don't sit there.

As for the Octavia noise problems I have now concluded its an estate and not hatchback issue. The three estates I have driven have ranged from dreadful to possibly tollerable but overall very poor (2 were 1.4 TSi's and one was a 150 PS diesel so the engine makes sod all difference - the worst was actually a 1.4 TSi). The hatch I drove was actually fine except for the wind noise I mentioned and that was probably a one off, not spotted it to a significant degree on the 3 estates and they have the same screen

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - nailit

Check out a Mazda 6 estate petrol 2 ltr, within your budget and will do over 42 mpg, easily so if you are careful on the right foot and not doing many long trips. Good looking too, japanese reliability hopefully, reasonable priced servicing as it's not a diesel - (avoid [the modern/latest] mazda diesel like the plague!)

No spare wheel though.

Edited by nailit on 26/11/2016 at 13:30

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - brum

As previously discussed Mazdas have paint and longevity issues.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - nailit

Not yet known on the new models, 2013 onwards for the new mazda 6 etc. and not mentioned in this thread IIRC.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - lordwoody

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794

I wonder how these sort of moves to ban diesels within major cities will impact on diesel sales? The VW salesman we spoke to thought diesels would be obsolete in the next 10/15 years.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - RT

London already has dis-incentives against older diesels in it's ULEV congestion charge - but how many UK car owners have any need to drive INTO Central London, a very small minority as most commuters either use public transport or don't drive right into the centre - occasional visitors either use public transport or take the one-off hit.

It's commercial vehicles that'll be affected most, where diesel currently dominates far more than cars AND which have a harder job finding a green alternative.

Increasing use of EVs isn't the answer because that just puts more power station pollution out in the countryside.

In this day and age of fast internet connection, part of the solution is reducing the number of people/vehicles that need/want to go into the centre of big cities - reduce the overall need for vehicles.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - balleballe

Whilst the styling may not be to everyone's taste, what about a civic or civic estate?

More roomy and a bigger loading area than the golf and more reliable too. The 9th gen is actually surprisingly refined for a mid sized Jap car.

their 1.6 diesel hasn't got any DPF issues and is more economical than the VAG 1.6 'bluemotion' . The 1.8 petrol is supremely reliable and economical but may lack the power you want, hence why the 10th gen will have petrols with turbos.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - bazza

Had a quick look around a Civic tourer last week, a very impressive car. Massive boot, and a lovely quality feel about it. I'm very tempted by the hatch as my next car, if I can live with the rear visibility problem- the door mirrors and reversing camera probably compensate for it. The 1.8 would be my choice, as one of the best petrol engines around, I enjoy the rev range of a decent petrol, so not a problem. Would miss the low down pull of my Octavia 1.9 but not the noise and tractor like feeling! Incidentally, re: the Honda 1.6 diesel, I can't find any DPF issues with it or any major problems so far, indeed it is universally highly praised.

Volvo/BMW etc - Diesel v Petrol, buying dilemma. - SLO76

re: the Honda 1.6 diesel, I can't find any DPF issues with it or any major problems so far, indeed it is universally highly praised.

I've a CRV with this engine and it's very refined for diesel, pulls much better than you'd expect in such a large car and does a fairly easy 60mpg. We do a fair mileage so shouldn't suffer any DPF issues but there are periods where it'll only see local driving and I've never had trouble from the filter. Just watch for juddering clutches which seem fairly common in the CRV, not sure if the Civic suffers.