The dealer supplied the car and chose to subcontract the belt change.

Provided the claim is justified he's liable.

The dealer (independant trader not main dealer btw) says that the sale of goods act says that he's only liable for pre-existing faults. As the car was ok when sold it doesn't apply. He says I should take it up with the garage as I asked for the cambelt to be changed rather than buying the car as it was?

I feel for the trader as the car was a good one and I'm convinced it was the poor fitting by the garage. However, the trader commissioned the work and I only bought the car on the condition that the cambelt was changed. I'm being bounced between car trader and garage and I'm worried I'm going to be lumbered with a huge bill. It doesn't help that the garage and place I bought the car from are about 75 miles away and I'm working 13 hours every day except Sunday , so can't actually go and see, so have to rely on what I'm being told on the phone.

Ivan

My usual comment on threads like this:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repai.../

Consumer helpline: 03454 04 05 06

Audi tensioner studs are a known issue. This link points out that a Gates belt kit includes a NEW stud, i.e. should alaways be replaced.

www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic145835.aspx

Gates cam belt kits are the industry standard - but they can be a lot more expensive than your local motor factor or BluePoint kits.

edit - Ooops! Blue Print not Blue Point-stupid boy!

Would what cambelt kit they used make any difference to my argument though? If they used a kit that didn't supply a new stud then they wouldn't have been obliged to fit a new one. I think they've overstressed the stud but they are saying that it would have gone before 4000 miles if they had. I simply think that a cambelt change should be expected to last a reasonable time and that the stud going must be related as the would have disturbed it during the fitting. Having paid extra to avoid the very problem that has killed the car after four months I think they should repair or refund surely?

Ivan

My Audi A3-2007( 70,000 miles) is on it's second cambelt. Audi advice is to change every four years regardless of mileage.

I would argue that a 2005 Audi should be two years into it's second cambelt and therefore not formally needing it's third till 2017.

Thus the questions are-Did the 2005 TDI have a cambelt change at all in it's lifetime ? Did it have a second change? Was "extra" paid to have the third voluntary change?

I don't have the service book now as it's in the car with the garage. I know when I bought it, it had a full Audi service history but no cambelt chance within 5 years. That's why I asked for it to be done as a condition of sale with me agreeing to pay extra for peace of mind (huh!). It may have been changed before but to be honest I was thinking 82000 is about the norm for a first change.

Ivan

A full Audi service history?--that's great!

Audi will know what was done at these services and also the service dates over the last 11 years-well worth checking out maintenance records.

It looks as though the car missed it's 4 year cambelt change.

Thanks but I'm unclear as to how that's relevant in this case? The old cambelt hadn't failed, it was the stud holding the tensioner that went following the replacement cambelt kit installed at the time of sale.

I've drafted a letter as advised by the C.A.B so will have to see what they come back with.

Ivan

The relevance is that the tensioner stud failure may not have occured if it had been replaced at the same time as any previous cambelt change(see yesterdays post by Galileo).

So are you saying that if it wasn't replaced in any previous cam belt change, that absolves the garage of any fault at this change? Surely if it's a known weakness it should either be changed every time or greater care should be taken not over stress the stud? It failed after this cam belt change, not any earlier one.

BTW - I rang Audi UK and they told me the last service with them was in 2013, and was basically an oil change. They couldn't tell me when of if the cam belt was last changed as they said that's just recorded in the service book (which the garage has). I assume then that if services were all carried out by Audi as I recall from looking at the book then it must have been done previously if it's recommended to be done every 5 years. I also remember the reason I asked for it to be done prior to purchase is that because I could see from the book that a cam belt change was due and that I didn't want to worry that the cam belt might fail. Sad thing is, that the car would probably be going strong right now if I hadn't asked them to do it. I should have bought the car then taken it to Audi to be done, but then hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Ivan

Thanks,

I've always done cam belts myself as I always had cheap cars. This was the first car of high enough value to think I'd be better to get it done professionally as I didn't want the worry or the hassle (not unreasonable I'd have thought?).

What is really annoying is that the very thing I paid extra to have done, is what has let me down. If I'd bought the car knowing the cam belt was due and it had gone before I'd got around to it, I'd have kicked myself but accepted it.

I really don't want to be fobbed off with excuses from the dealer in this case though, as in my book a professionally fitted cam belt job should be good for more than 4000 miles / 4 months. The stud is disturbed during the job and is therefore related. Whether that part comes with the kit they used or not is irrelevant. Also the dealer has tried to get me to take it up with the garage that did the work when he had the work commisioned. The garage then passed me back. This went on until I discovered they are part of the same company! I'm now doing everything via letter as they are too clever at twisting things on the phone and it's easy to end up being conned.

Ivan

Just a thought.Did the dealer really have the cambelt replaced at all.You paid him the money but do you have proof that the job was done.If he didn't have the work carried out then the original belt was still in place and it could have been that(with original bolt) that let go due to not being changed.

Sorry to resurrect this thread but it's occurred again!!!

In the original thread I explained that I'd bought an Audi A3 from a dealer and asked to have the cambelt changed prior to buying. The tensioner retaining bolt failed 2k miles later destroying the valves ect. After lots of haggling, the dealer agreed to do the work if I contributed £400. It had taken ages, so I agreed as I needed the car desperately. They emailed to say this is their final offer and that by agreeing I accept that it was full and final for "that" repair.
Now 20 months later and 20k miles EXACTLY the same thing has happened! The cambelt retaining bold has sheared and the car is dead. I've taken the cambelt cover off and you can see the sheared bolt and evidence of a helicoil insert poking out from around the base of the sheared bolt.

Do I have any comeback after this amount of time and milage as it's exactly the fault the supposedly repaired to a proper standard? If it was unrelated I'd have shrugged my shoulders and put it down to bad luck, but IMHO, a helicoil insert and maybe a wrong grade bolt is not a good engineering repair for such a critical function, when failure destroys the top end (maybe the bottom end too if a valve has dropped into a bore).

Advice gratefully recieved.

20 months adn 20,000 miles, forget it. It will be impossible to prove a manufacturing or instalation defect after that time.

Agreed.

You would have to PROVE that the quality of installation and the workmanship fell below a 'reasonable standard' to have any chance of any liability - and by 'PROVE' I mean to court satisfaction levels.

Time to flog it, methinks.