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A certain rather large south east police force - an area one known for mockney wide boys in their Capri's, have been having terrible reliability problems with their BMWs for some years now, not just niggles, but constant engine failures, major suspension component failures etc, to the point where they were going to officially ban the future purchase or lease of BMW vehicles in their fleet - until BMW came to a rather good deal - I won't suggest they practically give them away - but it's not far from the truth, this was to avoid the bad publicity associated with the brand being banned from selection due to lack of dependability and high repair costs.
The Fords and Vauxhalls in their fleet fare rather better, there was a time this particular police force would almost exclusively buy Fords to support local industry. If I were PM, my first proposed law would be (ultra specialist vehicles aside) only vehicles manufactured (or assembled) in the UK could be purchased or leased with public money - the current lot in parliament (both sides) wouldn't dream of putting UK citizens first - note the lack of noise from our elected representatives when EU (OUR!) money was used to move Ford Transit production to Turkey destroying British jobs. Back to the thread - don't do it! You'll likely be buying an unreliable money pit. Plus who would want to be associated with a brand which asset stripped and destroyed Rover anyway?
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only vehicles manufactured (or assembled) in the UK could be purchased or leased with public money
That would make the criminal classes tremble. The thought of being chased by a Toyota Auris or Nissan Micra/Qashqai would surely have them looking for a legal way of earning a living.
So for really fast cars that leaves Astons or if they are still made here Jags. Or how about a V8 Morgan, not much would get away from that (on a dry day at least).
Somehow I do not think the budget would realistically support a buy British only requirement but it would be interesting to see how reliable a Jag was when it had to work for a living.
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only vehicles manufactured (or assembled) in the UK could be purchased or leased with public money
That would make the criminal classes tremble. The thought of being chased by a Toyota Auris or Nissan Micra/Qashqai would surely have them looking for a legal way of earning a living.
So for really fast cars that leaves Astons or if they are still made here Jags. Or how about a V8 Morgan, not much would get away from that (on a dry day at least).
Somehow I do not think the budget would realistically support a buy British only requirement but it would be interesting to see how reliable a Jag was when it had to work for a living.
With today's road conditions do you really thing the performance of the car matters THAT much? And yes the Jags are still made here, a sporty XE or XF model is plenty fast enough as are Civic Type Rs or Astra VXRs - all perfectly viable pursuit cars.
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There is only one vehicle a UK copper could never kill - A Honda ST1100 Pan European.
They used to thrash them unmercifully, on the limiter in every gear when chasing an offender or demonstrating pursuit riding.
I've done riding courses with them and the abuse they used to dish out to those bikes was unfair.
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only vehicles manufactured (or assembled) in the UK could be purchased or leased with public money
That would make the criminal classes tremble. The thought of being chased by a Toyota Auris or Nissan Micra/Qashqai would surely have them looking for a legal way of earning a living.
So for really fast cars that leaves Astons or if they are still made here Jags. Or how about a V8 Morgan, not much would get away from that (on a dry day at least).
Somehow I do not think the budget would realistically support a buy British only requirement but it would be interesting to see how reliable a Jag was when it had to work for a living.
I believe that until we joined the EU, the Metropolitan Police were only allowed to buy British vehicles. At one point they were prevented by the Home Office from buying Ford Granadas because the engines were made in Cologne. (According to "Cops and Robbers", a book on the history of UK police cars by Ant Anstead)
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Forcing a ‘buy British’ policy on tax payers is unwise. It propped up our grossly inefficient nationalised motor industry during the dark days of BL and did nothing to encourage competition, quality or value. I remember our local traffic boys running around in clapped out Rover SD1’s and 825/827 Rovers that simply couldn’t cope with the demands required of them. Civil servants must be free to seek the best deal for the tax payer without tying one hand behind their back. Jags and Land Rovers aren’t robust enough for the job and what else is built here that could do it?
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Lovely (and fairly long) story here about the UK's first ever foreign police car. Thames Valley and City of London soon followed the trend with BMWs and that was an end to all-British police car fleets. www.hampshireconstabularyhistory.org.uk/stories/de.../
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Thanks for that Bilboman - very interesting.
One can see why Hampshire Police went that way. In the 1950s Austins were probably the best asnd most reloiable mass-produced cars that you could buy: but by the mid-60s BMC, later BL, had ruined that.
It wasn't as unpatriotic as all that, as in those days I believe Volvos had a lot of British components in them. Volvo certainly used that as an advert to entice managerial types out of their Rovers: I think many owners of the 'Granny' P4 Rovers were disappointed by the Rover 2000 snd went for a Volvo Amazon and later 140/240 series. I knew people with them at that time and they really were reliable.
I wonder if Hanpshire Police find their current Volvos as reliable. As the article says they have stuck with Volvo, but are they the only ones who do? There are a lot of police Octavias all over the country, presumably many of them VRSs.
I like the accidental irony of the featured Volvo's registration number - FOR....D.
Edited by Avant on 09/12/2018 at 19:58
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I enjoyed that read featuring Police Volvo 120 series, many thanks Bilboman.
Oddly enough my very first car was a 1959 Volvo Amazon saloon, which i purchased for the heady sum of £60 in 1972 and repaired the massive holes in the front wings behind the headlights with the age old favourite of a cut up biscuit tin rivetted in place and lots of well rubbed down Davids Isopon filler, none of that welding malarky in those days.
In the article the writer mentions the B18 engines being breathed on, my B18 (or was it a B16?) had also been breathed on and sported a rivetted on label ''Engine Conversions by University Motors Salisbury'', now my particular car had been imported from SA (red rear indicator lights) so whether the Salisbury mentioned was the one in England or one in SA i do not know, what i do know is that it too had a four branch flowed exhaust manifold and twin carbs but what had been done inside is anyone's guess...i'm going to say either SU or Stromberg carbs but cannot recall which, the engine was free revving and went very well indeed.
In the article he writer also makes mention of the sweet gearchange and good handling, and i can vouch for both, the gearlever was a really long chromed affair but the gears could be slicked through in a fashion i didn't find again for probably 30 years, and the car stuck to the road like glue even on its Michelin X's.
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Absolutely loved those Volvo Amazons.
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Very interesting article on the Volvos.
As far as the original question goes- albeit that it’s on a resurrected thread from two years ago- I’d be happier knowing that the BMWs had been generally driven by people who can drive well and generally sympathetically. They’ll still do speed bumps quickly though. Police cars, especially the advanced cars such as these, are maintained well. Beat cars tend to be more abused and I certainly wouldn’t buy one of those.
The garages also now have more of an eye towards resale values, and they’re mostly beyond bodging holes into dashboards now. The multimedia stuff is either integrated or hidden behind our screens. On some of our cars, the steering wheel radio controls have been rewired to work either the police radios or the lights/siren etc. The idea is that all of the adaptions can be reversed relatively easily.
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double post
Edited by SteveLee on 09/12/2018 at 20:25
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Forcing a ‘buy British’ policy on tax payers is unwise. It propped up our grossly inefficient nationalised motor industry during the dark days of BL and did nothing to encourage competition, quality or value. I remember our local traffic boys running around in clapped out Rover SD1’s and 825/827 Rovers that simply couldn’t cope with the demands required of them. Civil servants must be free to seek the best deal for the tax payer without tying one hand behind their back. Jags and Land Rovers aren’t robust enough for the job and what else is built here that could do it?
That was then, now they'd be buying perfectly reliable "foreign" cars assembled or manufactured here which is good for British jobs.
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“That was then, now they'd be buying perfectly reliable "foreign" cars assembled or manufactured here which is good for British jobs.”
You’d still be handing a massive subsidy and a disincentive to UK based manufacturers. I get the thinking but this sort of thing doesn’t do what you think it would. It costs tax payers more, gives us less choice and again reduced competition is never a good thing in any industry. Let them compete for the business, force them to produce a good product at the right money, then they’ll get the deal.
Think back not only to our own woeful BL but many other nations which forced state organisations to buy locally built suffered the same. France and Italy made some God awful cars in the 70’s and 80’s all propped up by a large captive market at home. Let’s not make the same mistake again.
Today’s car market is dynamic, innovative and hugely competitive. They build some great cars, in fact it’s hard to describe anything available on sale here today as a genuinely bad car, which is something you certainly couldn’t say back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.
I’m trying to think of a single genuinely bad car on sale today and despite a few budget brands not quite adding up financially with massive depreciation none of them are actually bad cars. My days as a salesman in the 90’s brought me into contact with such gems as...
The Austin Ambassador - Not as bad as it's rep suggested but leaking hydragas suspension always had them leaning to one side and the driving position was awful.
Morris Ital - I was amazed how bad the handling was on these and that they had actually still been on sale at all in the 80’s while the Germans were offering the likes of the Golf and Jetta.
Austin Metro - Fun handling but whole thing was compromised by cost cutting, especially with the suspension interconnection from front to rear dropped to save money. This was restored on the 1990 K series Metro which was a massive improvement. Plus whining 4sp gearbox was straight out of the 1950’s while others were offering smooth 5 speeders. It took them the best part of a decade and privatisation to sort it.
Lada Samara - Terrible in every way. Egg crate quality, poor economy, bad handling, heavy steering and catastrophic depreciation. We took loads of these in against used Protons which the punters loved in comparison. Only people who wanted them were Russian container ship crews who bought every one we got in to ship home.
FSO Polonez - Not one good thing to say about it. I couldn’t understand why anyone bought these.
Lancia Prisma/Delta - Rusted away in no time, driving position only a chimp would love and the doors kept flying open on corners! Brilliant engines though.
Fiat Strada - Weird but definitely not wonderful. Had holes in the body before it’s fourth birthday and usually a hole in the head gasket too.
Ford Escort Mk V - I was astounded by how uncompetitive these were compared to the Rover R8, Pug 306, Fiat Tipo, R19 and even the dull Mk III Astra. Horrid cars with a diesel or the flaccid CVH motors. The ancient ohv 1300 was stone age but at least reliable.
Mk I Seat Ibiza - Most small cars were fun but there was no pleasure to be had piloting one of these. Gearbox like stirring porridge and engines which had no soul despite the “System Porsche” stickers on the rump. The steering was numb and the whole thing was utterly joyless.
There’s plenty more but I’m glad competition from abroad forced manufacturers to up their game and produce genuinely good cars.
Edited by SLO76 on 10/12/2018 at 00:23
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Plus who would want to be associated with a brand which asset stripped and destroyed Rover anyway?
I take it you are implying that BMW was the asset stripper. What about the billions they invested trying to turn Rover into a viable manufacturer before giving the project up as a lost cause due to the inefficiencies of the UK plant. At lest they kept the Cowley works in production.
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“I take it you are implying that BMW was the asset stripper. What about the billions they invested trying to turn Rover into a viable manufacturer before giving the project up as a lost cause due to the inefficiencies of the UK plant. At lest they kept the Cowley works in production.”
They never invested “billions” in Rover. BMW never had any clue what to do with Rover but they did see the potential in the Mini brand which they cultivated with huge investment into a sub brand for BMW. They harvested Land Rovers 4wd technology before flogging it to Ford for a nice profit too.
Rover had only a token gesture input to help produce the 75 but BMW never gave them the resources to develop a decent engine range for such a large car nor did they invest in the vital mid-range Focus rival the firm needed to really survive. The K series motor was hurriedly upsized beyond its original maximum size of 1400cc to cover for the loss of Honda’s excellent engines which led to the now notorious head gasket issues which were almost guaranteed on the bigger 4cyl engines. They made it look like they tried but at the end of the day Rover was dead before BMW bought them. At least they allowed Mini to flourish.
The only way Rover could’ve survived would’ve been under Honda’s ownership but they both occupied a similar market in Europe and Rover had little exposure beyond. The best cars they ever made were rebadged Honda’s with a bit of chrome and wood old world charm. BMW were right not to pour money into that black hole.
Edited by SLO76 on 10/12/2018 at 14:57
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Plus who would want to be associated with a brand which asset stripped and destroyed Rover anyway?
I take it you are implying that BMW was the asset stripper. What about the billions they invested trying to turn Rover into a viable manufacturer before giving the project up as a lost cause due to the inefficiencies of the UK plant. At lest they kept the Cowley works in production.
BMW saddled Rover with HUGE write-downs for investment - rebuild Cowley, Hamms Hall engine plant, modernise Longbridge - but funnily-enough couldn't spare a dime to sort K-Series out - this was not BMW money it was debt accrued by Rover taken off Rover's bottom line to sell the "English Patient" story, they sold Land Rover for $3.8bn (BILLION) after paying something like £140M for the whole company (that deal also banned Rover from developing SUVs in the future) They also sold off hundreds of dealership sites which were on Rovers asset sheet. Of course after dumping Rover they KEPT all the plant Rover bankrupted themselves building for themselves - the replacement for Rover 200/400 completely disappeared - but the new FWD/RWD/AWD MINI/1 series platform mysteriously appeared out of nowhere - bit of a coincidence. It's abundantly clear in hindsight that BMW just wanted MINI, they also used Land Rover cash (before flogging them for huge profit) to essentially develop the basics of X5.
If BMW wanted Rover to survive they wouldn't have chosen the day of the Rover 75 launch to publicly admonish Rover and warn them about their future.
As for "viability" on the day of the takeover, BMW made three box saloons in three sizes and practically nothing in emerging sectors (superminis SUVs etc), Rover made a car in every sector - and owned two of the most recognised marques in two of the sectors. On the day Rover was handed over to the Phoenix chancers, BMW made a car in every sector, Rover made the 75 and a couple of ageing rebadged Hondas plus the MGF - how the tables turned eh?
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