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English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - John F

Just back from Porto, Portugal's second city, although not much bigger than Northampton. However, it has roads and a mass transit system which Birmingham would envy.

Why are we now so useless at moving people from place to place in and around our towns?

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - FoxyJukebox

It's something to do with money....+ of course, some or all of the below are to "blame"

1. Tax would have to rise-and nobody wants to pay them.

2. Toll charges would have to be applied(same thing as above!)

3. Planning and building costs too much

4. There's a recession-thus no money unless you print it

5. All motoring costs are too cheap-so car ownership soars, towns are clogged but people seem quite happy sitting in jams day after day!

6. Public transport still has to be paid for-thus with fares extortionate, traffic escalates.

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - gordonbennet

Anything to do with them spending money that wasn't theirs or they haven't got nor yet earned?

Maybe we could have spent our £1.5 trillion debt (and rising, thanks to and cheerio the dynamic duo of Cameron/Osborne) on something useful too.

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - galileo

Just back from Porto, Portugal's second city, although not much bigger than Northampton. However, it has roads and a mass transit system which Birmingham would envy.

Why are we now so useless at moving people from place to place in and around our towns?

UK population density 269 per sq Km, Portugal 109 per sq Km. (and the UK average includes the Highlands/Snowdonia/National Parks!)

I would think the UK population and town/city size increased more and more rapidly than Portugal's during the Industrial Revolution, so many UK towns mushroomed around a Medieval road layout in periods before cars existed.

It is now hard to sort out and improve the road layout here without mass demolition of property.

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - catsdad
I agree with previous posters. I wonder too if planning is more liberal in Portugal than here. And of course EU money has been used for infrastructure over the years for the poorer members.
English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - focussed
The usual UK problem - successive governments have been quite happy to screw the road user over with taxes and fines but reluctant to spend that money on building proper new road systems - you notice I said "road systems" that means not building dual carriageway roads that just get the traffic to the next traffic jam quicker.

Living in north-west France we have got used to driving anywhere on a mix of quite-well maintained single and double lane roads with no traffic jams - no road tax in France - cheaper fuel- and in our region no toll roads either - how do the french do it and the UK can't?

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - galileo
The usual UK problem - successive governments have been quite happy to screw the road user over with taxes and fines but reluctant to spend that money on building proper new road systems - you notice I said "road systems" that means not building dual carriageway roads that just get the traffic to the next traffic jam quicker. Living in north-west France we have got used to driving anywhere on a mix of quite-well maintained single and double lane roads with no traffic jams - no road tax in France - cheaper fuel- and in our region no toll roads either - how do the french do it and the UK can't?

UK population density 269/sq Km, France 118/sq Km. As GordonBennett keeps pointing out, many of our problems arise from there being too many people.

Also, the French are much better at exrtracting funds from the EU coffers (which we put more into than they do!)

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - Falkirk Bairn
Portugal has over borrowed for the roads & railways - like Greece they are under pressures to cut Govt Spending & raise Taxes - they could be out of the EU in a similar case to Greece as they fail to meet Brussels' Cuts
English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - focussed
"Also, the French are much better at exrtracting funds from the EU coffers which we put more into than they do!"

Well, you can hardly blame them for working the system can you?
Perhaps the UK politicians should have been paying more attention instead of concentrating more on fiddling their expenses!
English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - nick62
"Also, the French are much better at exrtracting funds from the EU coffers which we put more into than they do!" Well, you can hardly blame them for working the system can you? Perhaps the UK politicians should have been paying more attention instead of concentrating more on fiddling their expenses!

This reminds me of when the former BR Railway Works in Derby (Bombardier) lost-out to Siemens to supply the trains for Thameslink.

I remember the then Transport Secretary Phillip "wet-fish" Hammond explaining how it was impossible under EU rules to insist the work of building the trains stayed in the UK!!! The French would have just built them theirselves and not given the Germans (or us) a look-in and then worried about any consequences in about 25 years time.

That fool is now Foreign Secretary, (and probably soon to be Knighted - for services to German manufacturing) ............. I despair.

Edited by nick62 on 03/08/2016 at 22:07

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - Avant

He's now Chancellor of the Exchequer.

English town congestion - poor infrastructure. - nick62

Thank you for the correction Avant, I'm one step behind, (much like the government)!