VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

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Tue 12 Jul 2016 15:03

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - Pinknellie

Hi. I recently purchased a Cat D stolen/recovered T5 campervan from a private seller on eBay. When I took it to a reputable garage to get a quote for the cosmetic damage to be repaired they informed me that it has in fact been in some sort of accident and the damage is far more extensive than on first inspection and discovered that the chassis has been bent. I am currently in negotiation with the seller (who buys and sells insurance write offs through auction) to return the vehicle to him and get a full refund. My concern is that he will not refund me the money and I am left with an unroadworthy van. Could someone give me some advice please on how/if I can get my money back? Thanks v much

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Tue 12 Jul 2016 15:25

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - RobJP

If it was a private sale, then you have no legal rights at all, unless the vendor deliberately lied in the description of the vehicle - note that concealing a problem (not telling you about it) is not the same as lying about it.

However, if this person buys and sells a number of vehicles, then they would be viewed as a trader, and as such come under stricter rules.

Against that, is the EXACT description of it when sold to you. If it said "No structural damage", then you have a right, in law, to rely on that. If, on the other hand it was sold as salvage, then your legal rights will be virtually nothing.

Also, you state that you 'recently' purchased. Again, exactly how long ago may have an effect on your legal rights.

So basically, you'd need to give a hell of a lot more detail for anyone to even have an idea as to whether you might, in law, have a case for a full refund or not.

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Tue 12 Jul 2016 16:10

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - RT

Not withstanding any rights you may have under consumer legislation, this sort of issue should have been resolved by you with a proper examination before making any offer - it should have been a case of "buyer beware".

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Tue 12 Jul 2016 21:12

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - Pinknellie

Thanks for your reply....I bought it a couple of weeks ago. I let the guy know as soon as the garage informed me of the problem and he even spoke to them himself. He verbally informed me in a phone call that he 'never even looked underneath it' and would give me a refund but has since gone very quiet so I starting to get a bit concerned.....I have cut and pasted the ad description as follows which might help give a bit more info:

You are bidding on a 2009 volkswagen transporter t5 It is a 2009 t28 102 tdi swb with only 69k (very low)
It has came direct from insurance company (stolen recovered) as rear interior has been stolen. Was paid out in excess of £22500
Has leather captains seats. Electric windows Pop top with roof bed Solar panels. On board water tanks mounted underneath. 12v and 240v electrics fitted. Side windows with sliding openers. Front led fog lights. Chrome front bars. Side bars wind deflectors Genuine volkswagen alloys Requires rock roll bed and cabinet hob sink etc. Can be purchased for under a grand depending on your chioce Starts and drives well

Mot august 2016

It's is insulated plylined and carpet lined with hard waring lino floor
Cash on collection or bank transfer within 3 days auction end. Contact within 24 hours auction end electric windows

On 18-Jun-16 at 17:05:36 BST, seller added the following information:

Is recorded on hpi as cat d because of this incident

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Tue 12 Jul 2016 23:27

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - RobJP

To start with, go to his ebay page, and have a look at his feedback - NOT because he has lots of poor feedback, but because he sells lots of damaged cars, and the feedback proves that. BMW530d, Citroen Relay, Astravan, Transit, Navara, Corsavan, Merc ML ... they're all there - and that shows he is not a private seller, but a trader.

Next, print the screenshots of his feedback as proof .. just in case he tries deleting or making it private.

Now, you speak to him. You've basically got proof that he is a trader, so the Consumer Rights Act applies. Him being ignorant of the worse damage is irrelevant - he is a professional, so is expected - in law - to be aware. Whereas a private seller would not be expected to be aware of such damage.

So you tell him that under CRA he misrepresented the vehicle, you are rejecting it, and will expect a full refund as soon as you return the vehicle to him. Do note that in law YOU are responsible for returning the vehicle, and any costs for doing so will be YOUR responsibility.

If he refuses, tell him that you'll be in touch with Trading Standards sharpish, they take a very dim view of traders passing themselves off as private sellers.

However, if he refuses to accept the return of the vehicle, you may have to take him to court. I see the cost was £11,100, so above the level of Small Claims, so it may get expensive to nail him. Hopefully the threat will do the trick.

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Thu 14 Jul 2016 19:44

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - Pinknellie

To start with, go to his ebay page, and have a look at his feedback - NOT because he has lots of poor feedback, but because he sells lots of damaged cars, and the feedback proves that. BMW530d, Citroen Relay, Astravan, Transit, Navara, Corsavan, Merc ML ... they're all there - and that shows he is not a private seller, but a trader.

Next, print the screenshots of his feedback as proof .. just in case he tries deleting or making it private.

Now, you speak to him. You've basically got proof that he is a trader, so the Consumer Rights Act applies. Him being ignorant of the worse damage is irrelevant - he is a professional, so is expected - in law - to be aware. Whereas a private seller would not be expected to be aware of such damage.

So you tell him that under CRA he misrepresented the vehicle, you are rejecting it, and will expect a full refund as soon as you return the vehicle to him. Do note that in law YOU are responsible for returning the vehicle, and any costs for doing so will be YOUR responsibility.

If he refuses, tell him that you'll be in touch with Trading Standards sharpish, they take a very dim view of traders passing themselves off as private sellers.

However, if he refuses to accept the return of the vehicle, you may have to take him to court. I see the cost was £11,100, so above the level of Small Claims, so it may get expensive to nail him. Hopefully the threat will do the trick.

That's really helpful - thank you. Although he won't answer my calls, he has texted to say that he is trying to look into getting it repaired so I will give him a few days and then if I don't hear anything I will take it further. Thanks again for your help and hopefully things will get resolved soon.

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Thu 14 Jul 2016 11:38

VW T5 - Cat D stolen/recovered with bent chassis - Palcouk

You purchase a Cat D write off, and it was described as such, its therefore debateable as to whether any Small claim would succeed.

You did not buy a roadworthy car in the first place.

"If you buy a Cat D car from a dealer you have more consumer rights. A car dealer has to declare everything they know about a car; a private seller only has to make sure the car is as described"

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