What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - newyorkmonroe

I purchased a car from a used car dealer, the dealer told me the car had failed its MOT due to a minor fault with the power steering. He told me that was the only thing wrong with the car. The money was exchanged and after this I had to sign an 'invoice' whereby the dealer said he was writing on the invoice that the car was 'unroadworthy' he said he was only using this term due to the power steering leak. He also forced my father to test drive the car on this same day as he said a fault with the power steering is not dangerous. The car was taken by my father to be MOT'd a few days later and it came to light the car was severely damaged with a long list of faults which the mechanic said would cost around £2500 to fix. We immediately contacted the dealer to advise them that I wanted to reject the car due to it being totally miss-sold. The dealer refused my right to reject and said the car was sold as seen. The price paid for the car was £2750 + £75 admin fee. The original advertised price was £3000, my dad agreed a reduced price to reflect the power steering fault that we were advised of. Obviously I would not have purchased this car and paid a high end price for it if I was advised of the true state it was in. The dealer said my mechanic was trying to 'rip me off' and I decided to take the car to a Toyota dealership as it is a Toyota MR2 and they are the experts. They estimated the car would cost £4500 to fix. I again contacted the dealer and advised him of this and he said I am wasting my time if I take him to court and he will counter claim costs of £700 for time and expert report on the car. He said I have 5 days to consider the following options ' He will buy back the car for £500 less than what I paid, or he will arrange for the car to be put through an MOT for £400 so that I will be able to sell it on (a dodgy mot)' He put pressure on me saying that I am wasting my time and as summer passes as the car is a convertible it will lose its value.



I want to know what my rights are and whether I would be able to get my money refunded if I proceed to court. In my opinion the car was advertised as a nice little convertible and I was only advised of a minor fault, it actually turns out they hadn't even put it through an MOT so they lied when they said that was 'the only thing it failed on' I purchased my first car off them 2 years prior and they were aware I wanted an upgrade to this car. The car looks nice on top but underneath it is so badly corroded and everything basically needs to be replaced. I have the failed MOT report and the mechanics report on the work that needs doing and it definitely isn't the picture the dealer sold to me! I have the original advert and I feel the price paid reflects and proves that I was only advised of this one fault. Please can someone give me some advice on my chances of getting the money back. I am aware that when purchasing an older car there will be signs of age and wear and tear but for £2750 you expect to be getting a decent vehicle (yes with a minor repair to be done) On the invoice the dealer only noted this power steering fault not the long list of major things that came to light. The car is a Toyota MR2 2002.



Here is what was stated in the original car advert:

"Here we are delighted to offer you our 2002 toyota mr2 AUTO SMT Roadster which has only covered a relatively low 75,533 genuine/warranted miles, fully hpi clear ***convertible toy ** desirable sought after colour; black, service history which constists of 7 service stamps ** currently + previously lady owned (logbook) ** comes with all your usual MR2 roadster refinements, comes with 12 months AA breakdowncover, must be seen to be appreciated, viewing is highly essential, to acquire this MR2 please call our friendly staff today on *** for further info "



Here is the outcome of the MOT: (please note I was only advised of the power steering leak NONE of these other dangerous things)









Battery failed requires replacement.

Clutch slipping requires replacement.

Near side front suspension arm corroded requires replacement.

Off side front suspension arm requires replacement.

All four brake disks corroded and pitted require replacement.

Rear brake calipers seized.

Brake pipes corroded require replacement.

Hand brake inoperative,

N/s electric window inoperative

Bulbs missing from rear brake light and tail lights both sides.

Power steering pipes corroded causing leakage, require replacement.



Extensive corrosion to vehicle and suspension components.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - Dwight Van Driver

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 replaced three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations and the Supply of Goods and Services Act.

The Consumer Rights Act introduces:

  • 30 days to get a refund for a faulty item For the first time a specific timeframe has been created in which you can reject a faulty item and get a full refund - now 30 days

Google the Act itself and read to fully understand your position.

It is an offence to sell a car in unroadworthy condition but if the garage have pointed out it is such then they have the defence of believing it wpould not be used on a public road with defects.

dvd

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - gordonbennet

If this odd tale is the whole story, i fail to see what one can do legally using any legislation.

I doubt very much there was anything in writing stating the only fault with this car was power steering.

It sounds like the typical advert one reads on some online selling bombsite, eg air con needs regassing...no it doesn't there's a seriously expensive problem.

I'm amazed that anyone, who isn't a good home mechanic, would have bought this car at anything more than banger money ie £400 having given it your own DIY MOT test on the spot and evaluated what was wrong with it...plain as the nose on your face it was a pup or the dealer would have got the steering fixed MOT'd it and flogged it as all good.

It would have taken less time to fix the steering than it took to invent or read through that utter balderdash sales blurb.

Edited by gordonbennet on 08/07/2016 at 09:22

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - RobJP

Sorry to say this, but you bought a car with no MOT, knowing that was the case, even if not knowing the details of what was wrong with it. The car was sold as 'unroadworthy', and if you did not raise major issues with this at the time, then only you can be blamed for that.

As such, the dealer can point to this fact, and claim that you were aware that the car had problems, and you were therefore a 'sophisticated buyer' - and your comment about the car losing it's resale value as summer rolls on seem to support that, and seem to suggest you might even be a trader to some extent (after all, that would not be an issue to a real private buyer, as the value would climb again next spring).

As such, I'd be minded to recommend you accept the £500 deduction, and get shot of it. A court case could well take months, and, based on what you have said, I don't think the outcome would be at all certain.

As always, we are only getting one side of the story here. The garage might have a completely different story to tell.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - newyorkmonroe
A sophisticated buyer lol, im a 26 year old girl who was purchasing her second car in good faith. And you have mis-read what i stated. Thr car dealer is the one who said to me that i need to act quickly as the car will lose value, not me.
Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - FP

I'm sorry but I think you were absolutely out of your depth in this situation.

Even if you feel the dealer was not being open and honest - that just goes with the territory. He's a car dealer! And he's not on your side.

There were plenty of warning signs that this car was a liability.

What to do now? I would take the offer of selling it back at a loss of £500, on the basis that you would have to spend a lot more than that to get it sorted out. Even getting it through the MOT will most probably cost a lot more than that.

An expensive lesson, I'm afraid.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - newyorkmonroe
Well its only my second car, so i am not experienced in knowing that if a dealer says it has one fault it means the car is actually nothing more than scrap. i got my first car off them which is why i took their word for it that it only had a fault with the power steering, as it states on my invoice

Edited by Vgeoghegan on 08/07/2016 at 14:11

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - Avant

Following an 'offensive' report by the OP's father, I have edited / deleted some posts so that there is no mention of a crime. It's best not to accuse someone of a criminal offence on a public forum.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - newyorkmonroe
The conversations i had with the car dealer were not that the car was unroadworthy at all, he lead me to believe the car was a nice little hard to come by purchase with a minor fault to be repaired, which he agreed to come down on the price to reflect. The word unroadworthy only came into play after i had signed all the paperwork and he said he only was putting that as he has to due to the fault being with the power steering. If he believed the car to be truly unroadworthy at this point why did he force my father (who didnt want to test drive it) to drive it around a busy city centre?
Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - RobJP

Nobody 'forced' anyone to do anything. Your father - or YOU - could easily have said "No, not buying this, or test driving it, until it's got a valid MOT from an independent garage". That would have been so easy to do. But, for whatever reason, (price, I'm guessing) you tried being clever, and it's turned around and bitten you hard.

I, and others, have given you some advice on what we think. You don't like that advice, then that's fine.

I posted earlier that I'd recommend taking the £500 hit and getting shot of the car. Because legally it would take months and months to get the full amount out of the dealer. Yes, you're going to take that £500 hit. But you're (hopefully) going to learn a hell of a lot from it. And those sorts of lessons usually come at a price.

Alternatively, you try rejecting the car under CRA. Assuming he accepts the rejection, you then get your money back in full.

Doesn't sound like that's likely though.

So he refuses your rejection, and then you have to go through all the grief and time (and not having the use of a car, as you've rejected it in law, and not having your money either) for several months until the hearing. You've still got to keep it secure and insure it until the court hearing too.

Then, assuming you win, you've got to enforce the ruling. Lots of these dealers go through companies like a bullock on fresh clover. So the company has no money, gets closed down, he starts with another company, and you don't get your money. You're now into next year, and have a car that's worthless, a judgement that can't be enforced, and no money.

Alternatively, you take it back, get most of your money back, and learn a valuable lesson. All in the next week.

Your choice. YOU have to decide which way to jump

Edited by Avant on 08/07/2016 at 19:11

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - pd

I'd take the £500 hit personally and get shot.

No guarentee on winning a court case and it will take months and a lot of time and effort.

The fact that you bought it kowingly without a MOT is a defence for the dealer that it was sold as an unroadworthy car so it is your word against theirs.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - lordwoody

I'd also take the £500 hit but get your father to reimburse you for his failure to offer any useful advice of the 'Run a mile' variety.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - newyorkmonroe
Please note the car was insured and driven straight to an MOT centre so definitely not driven illegaly. I am stating that the dealler told my father that he has to drive the car in order to purchash it, we were not advises the car was unroadworthy, but the dealer is saying we were, but why did he let my father drive it if that is the case. We were not made aware the vehicle was unroadworthy. The only time this word was used was after the sale, when all paperwork was signed on the invoice and he said he was only using that term due to the one power steerig fault. I was told this was the only fault of the vehicle. I was definitely not trying to be clever and definitely nothing to do with the price, guillable for taking their word yes.
Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - Avant

Following an 'offensive' report by the OP's father, I have edited / deleted some posts to avoid any mention of a crime. It's best not to accuse someone of a criminal offence on a public forum.

I do sympathise, Victoria, but I must agree with others who say your best bet is to let the dealer buy the car back. It might have been different if the dealer had claimed the car was fully roadworthy, but as things are I'm sure he'll wriggle, and you'll end up with a lot of legal costs with no guarantee of winning.

Not your fault in any way, but I just don't think the battle is worth fighting. Maybe try to find a Mazda MX-5 (more of them around than MR2s), but get one with a year's MoT.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - RT

The OP has asked for advice and been given it - it's not the advice she wanted but it's based on experience and knowledge of forum contributors, often won the "hard way".

I see two choices - accept the advice, take the financial hit and move on a little wiser - or spend money on professional legal advice and take the risk of failure and further costs.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - gotojoe

Thank you all for your advices and to Honest John for a bit of moderation.

As with most things in life this one is a little complex and so we will take some of legal advice before deciding on proceeding.

The car looks lovely for its year and is low miles.

It's going to need some money spending on it to bring it back to life.

I'm considering having the underside assessed for structural integrity and if satisfactory professionally de-scaled and Wax oiled.

Then bite the bullet and have the clutch changed.

The dealer has been a bit economic with the truth I feel and left us with a fair bit of expense.

I took my eye off the ball and trusted this dealer as Vicky bought her previous car from him.

I'm a bit old school and this one has gone belly up.

I tend to trust people...I won't stop trusting people but I may be more particular as to whom I trust in future.

As for letting the dealer make more money out of this situation..I would rather take it to the scrap yard !

I'm still hopeful and yes this dealer has made a fast buck but we have our integrity and in my book that's worth a lot more.

Joe

Ps I drive an MX5...How did you know !

Edited by gotojoe on 08/07/2016 at 21:09

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - RobJP

I hate to say it, but if the list of problems and the structural rot is as bad as suggested in the earlier post where the MOT failure was detailed, then you are just throwing good money after bad.

I imagine we've all been there - I know I have, when I was about 25. Bought what looked like a tidy Volvo 360, which turned out to be an absolute shed mechanically. Spent about £2k on it, and ended up chucking it in the auction 6 months down the line, as the alternative was spending about another £2k getting it right.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - galileo

You say you'll have the clutch changed, but in the original ad its described as an automatic, is this so or is it actually a manual?

In either case, I fully support the advice to hand it back and move on.

Corrosion to the point where suspension parts need replacement suggests there is more hidden rust and the car is beyond economic restoration.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - gotojoe

Hi. The car is a semi automatic ..so it has a dry clutch plate.

I'll have the car properly assessed underneath and go from there .

If it's beyond hope I'll write it off. I'm not inclined under such circumstances to allow it to go back on the road to an unsuspecting buyer.

That would be wrong.

But, hope springs eternal...the surface corrosion is an advisory. The mot inspectors aren't allowed to prod and poke and certainly don't measure the thickness of metal.

Yes, it is situation not good. Effectively as we drove off the clutch started slipping and we were told .." tough luck "

Maybe this will be the Six Million dollar MR2 lol

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - FP

"As for letting the dealer make more money out of this situation..I would rather take it to the scrap yard !"

I understand how you feel, but I wouldn't get as much satisfaction from "allowing the dealer to make more money" as I would from saving myself from spending - probably - a hell of a lot more than the £500 you are handing to the dealer. And if you really do mean what you say about taking the car to the scrapyard then you'll lose £2825.

If you're not careful it will be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - pd

The subframes tend to go on these so I suspect that it the primary replacement issue.

If it is just the subframe it is probably worth doing.

They also suffer with the same issue as the MX-5 with the drain holes getting blocked leaving a load of water in the sills sloshing about which rusts through so check this carefully as well.

Toyota MR2 - Used Car Taking Dealer To Court Help! - TedCrilly
Here is a suggestion, a bit radical maybe but here goes........stop wasting time here getting wound up by irreverent comments and things you don't like to hear and instead go and see a solicitor, a real one with proper qualifications and talk face to face with someone who knows what he/she is talking about. Take all the sales information with you and listen to what is said and answer all the questions put to you honestly and truthfully.

It might cost you say £50-100 but you will then know exactly where you stand and what can (or can't) be done to resolve the issues.