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All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - DavidJC

I'm very upset by articles advocating left foot braking in two-pedal cars, ESPECIALLY by the older generation. My father, who is now 84 and has in the past 10 years only driven DSG cars, has taken up this practice (for some reason I cannot talk him out of) and as a passenger, I can tell you it's a genuinely horrible experience; lousy control, jerky braking, sudden stops, occasional ABS activation for no good reason, actually hitting objects at low speed from time to time, and all because of poor brake control. There is NO ADVANTAGE whatsoever to this idea. I have owned 6 autos from Subaru to 735i as well as 22 manual cars and have never braked with the left foot in any of them. Forget rallying, it is an utterly pointless practice on the road. If the driver cannot control a two-pedal automatic with one foot they simply should not be driving.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - DavidJC

[Unable to edit post so adding] I also understand that braking with the left foot results in a UK driving test fail. How can this practice be advocated by anyone given that context?

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Happy Blue!

I have driven automatics for at least 20 years and regularly left foot brake. It is very beneficial when manoeuvering the car in tight spots, especially on driveways with a steep incline (my driveway) and also you react to situation much faster if your left foot is already over the brake pedal rather than having to take your right foot off the accelarator and move it over to the brake pedal.

It is not a case of I should not be driving, it is a case of a good driver knowing the best procedure for each situation.

If your father is hitting his car all the time, then it is time to stop him driving, not criticise others for driving in a safe manner you do not like. No-one criticises my driving with left foot braking - and Lord knows my family have a go at me for everything else.....

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - DavidJC

Sorry, but the "advantage" is illusory and you're talking about a tiny fraction of a second equating to an insignficant distance advantage. Maybe you're just very good at it, but I don't see the reason. Are you aware that all engine management systems react to a brake input and cut the throttle, resulting in jerky and unpredicable control when manoevering? I too have 35 years of driving experience including 14 years solely in automatics and I just don't see ANY practical advantage to doing this. It just results in both feet being on both pedals at once. And I repeat, it's a driving test fail in the UK.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Avant

We've had this discussion on here only a few weeks ago, so I hope we don't have to go through it all over again.

HJ is an advocate of left foot braking (LFB), and it makes perfect sense for people who always drive automatics, as it becomes a natural reaction leading to quicker braking. Personally I don't do LFB as (because SWMBO doesn't like automatics) we always have one manual car in the family, and I think it's important (for me anyway) not to have more than one instinctive way of reacting in an emergency.

I agree with you, David, that LFB is not something to take up in old age. But for those who can do it instinctively it has advantages.

Edited by Avant on 03/07/2016 at 01:38

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - DavidJC

Well, I'm new to the discussion so I think it's OK to "go through it all over again." because for me it's the first time.

If you've ever driven a manual car, your left foot is programmed for the clutch. Un-learning that action is hard and results in terrible brake control from the left foot. I maintain that the microscopic reaction advantage of braking with the left foot is outweighed by the associated poor control, and repeat, it's a UK driving test fail. How is it then justified?

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - RobJP

It's justified due to the sheer number of accidents that (usually) older drivers have when they go for a sudden brake, and manage to hit the accelerator instead. Then, in panic that the car is speeding up instaed of slowing down, they press the pedal harder.

It happened to my father-in-law. It was only when CCTV footage from the shop next door was produced, and you could hear the engine bouncing off the rev limiter, that he accepted he'd been on the wrong pedal.

In his case, his mistake nearly killed a woman with baby in pram. He'd been going down a steep hill with a T-junction at the bottom, and as he got close to the bottom tried 'braking'. Car sped up, so 'braked' harder. Shot across junction, struck kerb and building opposite, missing aforementioned people by 5-6 feet.

So LFB is justified for people, on the basis that your right foot is always covering the accelerator, so you can never get it wrong.

The harshness of braking that your father is doing would appear to be due to it being a newly-learnt skill. Much like driving anything when first learnt, it is clumsy and non-instinctive.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - RT

Sheer number ?

If it were that common, insurance premiums for older drivers would be much higher.

It's a crazy concept suggesting that older drivers switch from left-foot clutch to left-foot brake when they change from manuals to automatics - whatever the merits of LFB, the increased risk of getting drivers to change their inbuilt habits is simply not thought through.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Happy Blue!

"Well, I'm new to the discussion so I think it's OK to "go through it all over again." because for me it's the first time."

Welcome to the Back Room. All are welcome as long you don't insult people, make your case in a polite not-badgering manner and accept when the majority have a different opinion that 'might' just be the right one.

Oh and also, please search the threads using the search facility before starting a new one, on a topic that has been done to death over at least 15 years.

Now - where were we....? Oh yes. It takes time to learn new tricks especially if you are not as young as you used to be. Don't blame the method for your father's accidents. HJ has frequently said that older people who always used to drive manual cars should be very wary of moving over to automatics without some form of training. Whether a person who has driven manual cars for 40+ years should now go automatic depends on the individual and further, whether they should learn LFB immediately, later on or never. But please don't come on hear shouting about it when we don't know who you are or why you appear to be so angry with us....

I tried it conciously when I was about 35 and found that depending on the car, it was either very easy or not worth the hassle.

Edited by Happy Blue! on 03/07/2016 at 11:07

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Wackyracer

make your case in a polite not-badgering manner and accept when the majority have a different opinion that 'might' just be the right one.

Why does this remind me of the Referedum? ;)

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - gordonbennet

make your case in a polite not-badgering manner and accept when the majority have a different opinion that 'might' just be the right one.

Why does this remind me of the Referedum? ;)

-:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

classic.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - John F

HJ is an advocate of left foot braking (LFB), and it makes perfect sense for people who always drive automatics

I profoundly disagree. Apart from a few hundred miles a year in my TR7 I have driven automatics for over twenty years (goodness knows why anyone prefers manuals in today's traffic).

HJ also advocates always changing the oil every 365 days, no matter what the mileage or type of oil/engine. I know nothing of his scientific qualifications but he is certainly not infallible.

To relearn an ingrained habit of RFB makes very little sense to me. I strongly concur with the OP.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - craig-pd130

I believe HJ chiefly advocates the use of LFB while doing low-speed manoeuvers (parking, turning in confined spaces etc) to counteract an auto's natural 'creeping' when in drive / reverse.

I don't believe he's trying to turn the UK into a nation of rally drivers.

Personally, I drive cars with manual boxes, but on the rare occasions I've driven an autobox car, I do use LFB for low speed shuffling. IIn fact, when I rented a Jensen Interceptor a couple of years back, it was necessary. That 7.2 litre motor generates a LOT of torque, even at idle speeds, so a gentle massage of the brake pedal was needed to keep it in check. It's not difficult or dangerous.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - madf

I believe HJ chiefly advocates the use of LFB while doing low-speed manoeuvers (parking, turning in confined spaces etc) to counteract an auto's natural 'creeping' when in drive / reverse.

No need for LFB when parking or low speed manoeuvres - no need for right foot on accelerator due to creep.

Problem solved.

LFB is a solution for people who should not be driving due to age/incapacity.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Wukl

No need for LFB when parking or low speed manoeuvres - no need for right foot on accelerator due to creep.

Problem solved.

Well, not quite. Creep works fine, if it's flat. But try that on my drive and you need throttle, try to get my car on the ramps, that needs throttle... etc.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Wukl

Always willing to learn something, when I read HJ's recommendation I did try LFB in my own slushbox car. Like many I suspect, I just couldn't train my left leg to be gentle enough for "routine" braking, and instinct took over for RFB in unexpected circumstances. However I have tried to persist with it for low speed manoeuvring, rather than what I had been doing previously which was to always have the handbrake "in hand" (not that you can do that if cursed by an electronic handbrake). LFB is also useful for keeping the revs higher as you drive through floods and for occasions when you are enjoying a 'spirited' drive on a twisty road, i.e. when you are braking to a halt. But for normal driving, I will stick with RFB. I drive hire cars for work which invariably are manuals as is the car of SWMBO, so I feel for me, it's a bit of LFB and RFB.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Wackyracer

I agree with the OP. I don't like this advise, especially for elderly people who are maybe losing some of their skills.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - John Boy

Wukl's first 3 sentences above sum up perfectly where I've got to with this issue.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Wukl

...when you are enjoying a 'spirited' drive on a twisty road, i.e. when you are braking to a halt...

That should of course say "...when you are enjoying a 'spirited' drive on a twisty road, i.e. when you aren't braking to a halt..."

Need to be more careful when I post!

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - DirtyDieselDogg

For me this whole issue is one of competence to drive, or rather incompetence, if one cannot differentiate between the brake pedal and the throttle pedal, one SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING.

At all.

End-of!

And anyway, I dispute the difference in reaction times or braking distances, since, no matter the suddenness, ones right foot will probably (due to muscle memory) react faster, and any competent driver will intuitively be coming off the throttle and covering the brake pedal, "just in case" on percieving a potential hazard.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - Avant

David - as you can see, people disagree on this one and we just have to respect each other's views.

But I think we'll probably all agree that for your father to change his driving habits in his 80s is a bad idea. He might have changed to LFB when he first had an automatic, 10 years ago; but as your experience as a passenger proves, it isn't working for him now. Maybe if possible you need to say you won't go in his car unless he thinks again.

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - colinh

Toyota operating manuals make the following point:

"Depress the brake pedal using your right foot. Depressing the brake

pedal using your left foot may delay response in an emergency, resulting

in an accident."

This due to there being left foot rest in most automatics, well clear of the pedals, and the time to move from it to the brake would be excessive

All automatics and DSG - Left foot braking automatics pointless & dangerous - galileo

Here is a quote from the IAM (now IAM Roadsmart): so some support for both views on the subject, depending on circumstances.

Our current policy is not to left foot brake in a two pedal automatic vehicle except when conducting a manoeuvre at slow speed.