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mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

Currently looking at diesels for towing. The CX5 has come onto the radar.

However on this forum the very mention of Mazda diesels has brought scorn upon the product. Obviously a wise manufacturer would work hard to eliminate problems from their products. Have Mazda done this with their diesels? They do make a range of diesels too, so did they all present problems or just some types? Any experiences and informed comment welcome.

Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Engineer Andy

Ditto - I may be in the market in the not-too-distant future for a replacement for my mk Mazda3 (1.6 petrol, not diesel), and may buy a diesel this time if my mileage for my new job + private miles goes over 15k a year. Had a look over the latest 2, 3, CX-3 & CX-5 and was very impressed with them all.

Besides finding out whether the diesel issues Mazda have suffered in in the last 10 years are still continuing, I will also be finding out whether all the above (apart from the 3, which I already know can, for a price) can come with at least a space-saver wheel/tyre in the well under the boot - from a look at my local dealership on Saturday, there appears to be a space for something resembling a space saver wheel/tyre for each, but I'm going to contact Mazda UK (unless someone can say for definite [not just their opinion or third-hand hearsay) to find out from the proverbial horse's mouth.

The reason being some have previously said that, for example, the Mazda3 saloon does not come with a 60:40 split back seat - it does (checked on Saturday). Good news also that Mazda3s now come with DAB as well as (if I read Mazda's website correctly) AM/FM tuners on their radios, something that the original mk3 model didn't have, despite other earlier-released models having this funtion. Nice to know they listen to customers - hopefully they will also if some models cannot have (at least as reasonably-priced options) space-saver wheels/tyres at present. Rather a show-stopper for me if they can't.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - oldroverboy.

Our local mazda dealer currently has several cx5 diesels waiting for engines and interestingly enough a brand new kia sportage with a failed gearbox. (failed manual when being moved for pdi)

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - craig-pd130

HJ's car-by-car for the latest Mazda 6 with the 2.2 Skyactiv diesel has a couple of ominous-sounding reports of diesel contamination of the sump oil, and the cars still apparently have an 'X' mark above the max line on the dipstick. So perhaps they haven't quite got to the bottom of the problem yet.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - gordonbennet

Admit i've ruled the maker out completely due to the reports of customers with problems being left to it basically when out of warranty, this is not the only maker i wouldn't buy into for neglecting the company's most important person, the customer.

As said on another thread, reputation gained by years of making reliable decent petrol cars (still do) ruined in no time...its not that a company gets a problem its how the company stand by their product and deal with it and not just in the warranty period either.

At one time Mazda Diesel was in high demand for transplanting into other makes 4x4's, how things change in a few years.

Apparently our few company Mazda 6 Diesels on 63 plate have had problems, new engines mentioned but unknown how many or what else has needed attention.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - TR7
Running a mazda6 2014 2.2 150 Bhp diesel no problems in 20000 miles. The oil has stayed in the same place on dipstick. I do 30000 miles a year minimum maybe it's driving short distances that causes problems.
mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - daveyK_UK

I would not buy a Mazdfa diesel the same way I would not buy a VW/AudiSeat?skoda automatic.

to many horror stories of failure combined with the manufacturer turning a blind eye.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - TR7
No reports on Mazda forums on problems with skyactiv diesels
mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - RobJP

I think the problems with Mazda diesels were more regarding the pickup filter in the sump becoming clogged over time, and it not being a serviceable part (or at least not being on any service list). When the filter clogged up after 60-100k miles, engine failure happened.

I'm sure there are a few with problems caused by failed DPF regens and resultng oil/diesel contamination and rising levels, but that would seem more likely to be caused by inappropriate use.

So my question would be whether or not Mazda are still using the same system on sump pickup or not. If they are, then is it a regular service item or not, and if it is not then budgeting for it to be done every 40k miles.

The only way you're likely to find out the answer is by asking a Mazda dealership directly. Not the sales people, they generally know nothing apart from how shiny it looks. But the master technician should be able to answer the question.

Whether they'd be willing to answer the question is another matter entirely ...

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Wee Willie Winkie

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That's what happened to my 59 plate 2.2d at 122k. I stopped as soon as the oil light started flickering so avoided a total catastrophe, but it was still £200 to remove the sump and clean the filter etc.

I part exd it soon after.

(Edit: sorry, Dieselboy - I edited out as much of the guff as I could. Software is just plain stupid at times.)

Edited by Avant on 26/05/2016 at 01:21

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Big John

A friend of mine had a Mazda 6 company car (2010 I think) that initially had no end of DPF bother (Had to be recovered with only 600 miles on the clock). This frustratingly went on for a while BUT after a few months in and out of the dealers the car then went on to be 100% reliable and clock up a high mileage until handed back last year

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

Some good comments here. But there is still that element of doubt. Pity, because the model range is good and the vehicles are well designed and built. Back to the drawing board. The more I look the more I return to a Skoda Yeti or Octavia or a Ford Kuga. Diesel and manual of course.

Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - daveyK_UK

Honda CRV with the diesel engine is an excellent car

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - nailit

"No reports on Mazda forums on problems with skyactiv diesels"

Hmm, not sure it's quite the same impression I get from www.mazda6oc.co.uk.

If you count engine error codes and trips to the dealers inbetween services to have 'updates', plus watching oil dipsticks/dash warning lights, then yes no problems.

Also a dealer suggesting an engine oil flush prior to renewing oil as an extra cost too.

But to be fair they are 'sorting' it by the look of things, see an article under 'aircon' in that forum (it got hijacked somewhat by diesel engine chat).

Apart from the towing angle I would go for a petrol, not the same torque but surprisingly pulls well from low revs. I can drive mine 'like' a diesel and on a run (150 miles) mainly dual carriage way get 46 mpg (indicated) so even knocking off 10% (manufacturers wishful markup) you are still in the forties. It will trundle along in 6th gear doing 40 mph. Around rural/ town I still get an indicated 40 to 42 mpg. But lots of traffic can affect this. Pretty good for a large car with a 2 litre petrol engine.

I'm sure there are other topics in there discussing diesel engines and oil, takes time but do your research you may find there is'nt an issue that would effect your driving requirements, but don't listen to a salesman :-)

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

Thanks nailit. Is your petrol a Mazda? As stated the only reason I decided to stick with diesel was the torque at low revs. My current annual mileage would exclude diesel from normal motoring needs. Just conflicting stories about initial start when towing. However when caravans were first brought into the market I suppose 99.99% of cars were petrol. Low bhp and torque too I suppose. More food for thought. Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Big John

What is your annual mileage? If low petrol is the way to go

Edited by Big John on 25/05/2016 at 23:57

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

What is your annual mileage? If low petrol is the way to go

Hello John, about 6 to 8K per annum now. But having just bought a caravan I need to tow, so diesel is the real deal for that. Plenty of torque at low revs for setting off with a big load. Otherwise I would love a petrol and probably go Honda. Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - nailit

Concrete, "is your petrol a Mazda?", yes Mazda 6 Sport facelift 2015 model 165 PS.

Lots on internet re. towing, I think Whatcar did a test, but the Mazda 6 petrol took a hammering on mpg when towing 52% drop in economy, being good solo, IIRC.

Just had a look at whatcar, solo scored 44mpg town,51mpg open road, and average 47mpg.

Honest john real average 43.5 mpg, percentage 88% (better knock off 12%)

My question is do the peeps who report the mpg's (not just journo's) take their reading straight off the car trip/computer? as I don't trust it, why I tend to knock off 10%. I know the best way is to fill up and note miles and then fill up again. Trouble is it takes me months to use a tank full, unless going on holidays or summat.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

Thanks nailit. I will check out the Mazda petrol CX5. Unfortunately all the reviews of towing vehicles seem to be for diesel powered vehicles, that in itself tells a story. Diesel is undoubtedly better for towing than petrol. My friend tows with a Passat diesel and consumption drops to about 35mpg from about 50ish when towing. Not bad considering he tows a 4 berth.

Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - RT

Diesel is undoubtedly better for towing than petrol.

Not now!

A turbo'd engine is undoubtedly better for towing - huge torque at low rpm - until recently the only turbo-petrols were very high performance cars - but most brands are introducing turbo-petrols in family cars/CUVs/SUVs.

Historically a turbo-diesel was undoubtedly better for towing than a non-turbo-petrol.

Use the maximum torque figure as a benchmark - but be aware that the industry is inconsistent about showing Nm and Lb Ft (1.0 Ft Lb = 1.35 Nm)

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Avant

In which case the Octavia vRS petrol might tow as effectively as the diesel.

According to the What Car table, the vRS petrol (217 bhp) has 258 lb ft of torque, the vRS diesel (184 bhp) has 280 lb ft, and the ordinary 2.0 TDI (150 bhp) has 252 lb ft. So not a lot in it, and the petrol vRS is a joy to drive for the rest of the time when you don't have the caravan hitched up.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

In which case the Octavia vRS petrol might tow as effectively as the diesel.

According to the What Car table, the vRS petrol (217 bhp) has 258 lb ft of torque, the vRS diesel (184 bhp) has 280 lb ft, and the ordinary 2.0 TDI (150 bhp) has 252 lb ft. So not a lot in it, and the petrol vRS is a joy to drive for the rest of the time when you don't have the caravan hitched up.

I am no expert nor mechanical engineer, but as I understand it, it is not the actual power in lb ft that is the issue. It is where it is delivered in the rev band. Looking keenly recently I notice that there is more than sufficient lb ft for effective towing but in petrol form the engine delivers this at between 3500/4500 rev per min, whereas a diesel delivers it at between 1500/2000 revs per min. Setting off, when towing or not, is likely to be at the 1500 mark and not the 3500 mark. So when towing setting off is the hardest job, so you need the extra lb ft at setting off revs. If that makes sense. I stand to be corrected, but that is my take on it. Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - Engineer Andy

I'm presuming its an 'engine stressing' issue, i.e. if the power is delivered at lower revs (and the peak power curve is quite flat), less strain is put upon the engine parts in trying to pull the load along from a standstill than if the car had to get to a higher amount of revs, and besides, the last thing I imagine the driver wants is to have to thrash their car just to make normal progress.

A petrol V8 (or possibly a V6) engine might do the job ok (though at a huge cost in fuel) for the same reason, but a 4cyl turbo-petrol (in my view) would not be good for towing except for lighter loads (than diesels of equivalent power). Obviously a non-turbo charged version would be even worse.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - xtrailman

I'm on my second CX-5 175 ps (173 bhp) with 420 nm at 2000 rpm (310 pound feet) And tow a 1565 kg caravan.

Avoid the early CX-5 diesels there was a few that had prematuring cam wear, prematuring vacuum pump wear (for the brakes), both of which could cause other failures due to blocked oil ways, the sequential turbo's for example.

After my 2013 manual 175 AWD sport had the vacuum pump changed i lost confidence in the car out of warranty, so bought another 2015 revised model car but in auto. I've only had this car since Nov last year so can't comment on its reliability as yet.

At 3K miles i have only a tiny oil rise say 1mm, but i don't do much more than 7K a year anyway. But you must check the oil level weekly to avoid being caught out with oil dilution, which in turn can lead to low oil pressure.

I intend to get a turbo petrol next with power and torque as quoted previously for the vag car, and with a 8 speed auto, but thats in another three years.

A modern turbo petrol is fine for towing, some give max torque now from as low as 1250 rpm up to high revs say 5K rpm, a much wider band than any equivalent diesel. I hate DPF as they destroy the economy.

The CX-5 average read out tells lies, its around 2.5mpg high on my car which others have found. So my auto returns around 38mpg allowing for the error, the manual car was over 40mpg.

On the plus side its a great towcar only the 88kg nose weight limit being the only negative. The 165ps non turbo car does not come close for towing, but fine for solo driving and very reliable.

Edited by xtrailman on 29/05/2016 at 22:09

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - concrete

Thanks Andy and xtrailman, my main concern for a petrol vehicle is when setting off. If I need higher revs to start then the clutch will take the brunt of the strain, being let in at over 2500 revs. As setting off from a standstill is the hardest job for a tow vehicle this needs consideration. Once in motion most engines should be able to maintain decent momentum. Don't fancy replacing a clutch every 10K or so. Never had to replace a clutch in any vehicle I have owned or kept. How can I find out which petrol engines deliver decent torque at lower revs?

Good news on the Mazda front though. I do like the vehicle CX5.

Cheers Concrete

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - xtrailman

I have towed with petrol and diesel had four cars where the clucth got so hot that you could smell it burning, but never needed to change a clutch.

A motor mover is your best friend and will easily pay for its self overtime.

Best way to find cars that have low down torque is to look at the brochures assuming you are buying new.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - NARU

Honda CRV with the diesel engine is an excellent car

The 2.2 gained many fans with caravanners. The new 1.6, not so many.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - WD401

Beware the hidden costs of DPF refills at 45,000miles + new DPF filter !

Beware running at less than 2000rpm for any length of time.

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - kiwichas

my 2.2d 175 regenerates every 220km approx whether driven at speed or slowly round town, and the oil level rises about 1cm every 5000km; Mazda NZ specifies 10000km or 6 month oil changes.

Not happy with the level of oil dilution which may approach 10-20% if it takes 1 litre to go from full to max on the dipstick; I note commercial diesels such as Caterpillar do not approve even 2.5% dilution

mazda diesels-have they solved the problems? - xtrailman

Having now cleared 8K miles and around 18 months i can report my car has very little oil dilution, perhaps 3 or 4mm rise on the dipstick..

So looking promising.