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Why anyone considering a new car would want to invest such a large sum of money in a vehicle devoid of any character whatsoever is a mystery to me, leave them to those who lack enthusiasm and have little or no interest in motor cars. Electric milk floats came and went. If the future of the planet is the overiding consideration then it's far better to encourage the developement of tidal power available 365 days of the year and where appropriate solar power, to generate electricity for homes and companies around the world and I say this as a retiree who has never had any connection with or vested interest in the above.
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Why anyone considering a new car would want to invest such a large sum of money in a vehicle devoid of any character whatsoever is a mystery to me, leave them to those who lack enthusiasm and have little or no interest in motor cars. Electric milk floats came and went. If the future of the planet is the overiding consideration then it's far better to encourage the developement of tidal power available 365 days of the year and where appropriate solar power, to generate electricity for homes and companies around the world and I say this as a retiree who has never had any connection with or vested interest in the above.
I'm told that Tesla's are great fun to drive - far more torque than any I/C engined car
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Electric motor torque is available from standstill all the way up, as well. Apparently one of the teslas can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds!
They'd be a peach for regular commuters, especially into congestion charging zones. No wasted fuel while standing still in traffic either.
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No wasted fuel stationary in traffic eh? Just like a hybrid toyota Yaris I owned then. Course at only 18k not as expensive to buy as a Tesla. And the range wasn't an issue either.
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Supposedely no risk in reserving one, after all the deposit is refundable, but....
Production wont start in earnest till next year, Tesla has a history of missing deadlines. The waiting list is such that you wont get yours for at least 5 years, in which time they may have got the car fully sorted or...the price might have doubled, there may be no rhd variant, Tesla may have gone bust, road tax on elecric vehicles may have gone through the roof to limit the strain on electricity supply, your idea of a nice looking car would have changed completely, or there is world shortage of lithium......or you may no longer be around to take delivery.....
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Always look on the bright side ..... eh?
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No wasted fuel stationary in traffic eh? Just like a hybrid toyota Yaris I owned then.
What's the story there – electric consumption by onboard systems?
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I'd rather buy a Toyota Hybrid myself. It's available now, reasonable cost and could still go from lands end to John O Groats without having to wait for batteries to recharge.
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Tesla S appears to be catching on in my area. I saw a 65 and a 16 reg this weekend. I suspect these are owners who would have bought a 5 series, XFs, E class etc but now want something different.
I've always considered 300 miles as a good distance between recharges, especially if a 30 minute charge can gives another 200 miles. Most car owners still only do tens of miles per day, not hundreds so electric would work.
The downside however will still be cost. £25k in the US will probably end up being £35k in the UK. You can buy a new car and fuel it for years with a £35k budget.
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>The Model 3 is also going to face stiff competition from the likes of BMW's 330e, the Golf >& Passat GTEs etc which have all the familiar virtues of a proven model with the plug->hybrid benefits ... and no range anxiety.
I think it worth putting you name on the list, it's after mine as i put some money down Friday. If nothing else you get your money back. Personally none of the car you mention are alternatives as there best of both or worst?
The fully battery solution with 300ish miles would do me for the week or most long runs. The cost of batteries alone make this a real prices point break thu.
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Man found electrocuted in his Tesla car. Attempting to save time he took a short circuit.
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if you are away from home where can you charge these cars, the batteries are bound to tail off their range with constant charging. Can you remember Jeremy Clarkson going door to door with his extension lead.
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Can you remember Jeremy Clarkson going door to door with his extension lead.
Yes but he'd be just as likley to go dooor to door with a petrol can.
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And the Tesla "look at meeee" won't have Aircon and a radio then?
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Why anyone considering a new car would want to invest such a large sum of money in a vehicle devoid of any character whatsoever is a mystery to me, leave them to those who lack enthusiasm and have little or no interest in motor cars. Electric milk floats came and went. If the future of the planet is the overiding consideration then it's far better to encourage the developement of tidal power available 365 days of the year and where appropriate solar power, to generate electricity for homes and companies around the world and I say this as a retiree who has never had any connection with or vested interest in the above.
I don't think lack of character is something one usually associates with Tesla cars! They certainly look good and all the reviewers of the bigger Model S I've seen are amazed by it. The Model 3 has interesting styling with the blank 'grille' shape reminiscent of the Renault Caravelle / Floride of the 1960's..
Tesla and Panasonic are investing in a 'Gigafactory' to build batteries for the cars and probably for other uses as well, and it's claimed this economy of scale will bring down the price of this type of battery considerably. we'll have to wait and see.
I still think a big market sector for electric vehicles will be delivery vans.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 05/04/2016 at 00:18
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A bit like the difference between steam and electric trains, one has loads of character and a huge number of enthusiasts and the other is boring.
I have been a passenger in an early Prius when it was nearly new, it was just bland and rattled over every small bump in the road it felt flimsy. Just recently I went in another hybrid I can't remember if it was a Toyota or a Mazda or whatever, it was Japanese though and although it felt better built than the original Prius it was still a boring ride.
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A bit like the difference between steam and electric trains, one has loads of character and a huge number of enthusiasts and the other is boring.
I have been a passenger in an early Prius when it was nearly new, it was just bland and rattled over every small bump in the road it felt flimsy. Just recently I went in another hybrid I can't remember if it was a Toyota or a Mazda or whatever, it was Japanese though and although it felt better built than the original Prius it was still a boring ride.
Wait until the restored Brighton Belle 5-coach electric Pullman train enters service in the next year or two! www.brightonbelle.com/
Also a lot of electric trolleybuses have been preserved and there are even working museums where they give rides on them
Motor manufacturers strive to make their cars as smooth and quiet as possible, except perhaps for their more sporting'models. Electric cars are naturally smooth and quiet.
All the technology of electric cars is well-proven except for the batteries. Over coming years it's likely better and cheaper batteries will be developed. Obviously electric cars aren't going to suit everyone's motoring needs, but then nor does a Maxza MX5 (can't take a family on holiday in it) or a Range Rover (heavy, uneconomical and big to park in a city).
Edited by Sofa Spud on 05/04/2016 at 11:28
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I don't think lack of character is something one usually associates with Tesla cars!
I do like the styling of the Tesla cars I've seen on the roads. They are certainly a world away from some electric 'cars' such as the G wiz.
I think a big asset for any new car these days would be to have a built in solar panel so the battery can be charging all the time the car is in daylight (even if it's just a trickle charge)
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I was talking to a Nissan Leaf owner yesterday. She has put down a (refundable) deposit on the Tesla 3, but has been told first deliveries won't be until late 2017.
As someone who does lots of short journeys daily in connection with my small business, an electric car appeals.
I've ruled out hybrids as (a) The Honda Insight I tried was a truly terrible car to drive, flimsy, bumpy and very slow unless you booted it which defeats the object and (b) I was disappointed with the Prius's perceived quality inside with hard scratchy plastics, but mainly (c), the first 4 or 5 miles after a cold start, a hybrid will only run on petrol because the engine hasn't reached operating temperature, so no option to use electric power.
Quite tempted by the finance deals on the Renault Zoe though.
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It must have been an older Prius you drove, last one I drove looked very nice inside and the bigger engine very nippy
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I think what people mean by "character" is engine and exhaust noise and perhaps a manual gearbox. Each to their own but I love the idea of instant silent power (and I am a self confessed car nut).
My only issue with all electric at the moment is that I have ageing family outside of the current maximum range for an all electric vehicle. I would not want a mercy dash to be punctuated by a recharge, especially if I had to wait for a charging point.
As someone has already mentioned, the availability of charging points is going to be an issue in the short term. You only spend a few minutes at a petrol pump so you will not have to wait long for one to become available. Charging points could be tied up for over an hour.
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I wonder how many people will place a deposit now and then sell it to someone in a hurry at a later date like they used to with Morgans?
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I must say I've been more impressed with the Murai fuel cell powered car rather than just plain battery. The biggest killer with all of these technologies is infrastructure, or where can I fill the car up. In the case of the hydrogen cell car a full tank in a minute with a 350 mile range per fill up, but you have to find a filling station that can cater first.
But then I suspect this was the issue over 100 years ago when the new fangled petrol engine made it's debut.
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What happens to these refundable deposits if the company goes broke?
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Probably what happens when any company goes broke - goodbye money.
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Exactly. In accountancy terms, you become an unsecured creditor in the insolvency process. By definition insolvency means that a business can't meet all its debts, and in practice there are usually secured creditors who will take all or most of what assets are there.
It's quite common for unsecured creditors to get only a few pence in the pound as a proportion of what they're owed.
I wish Tesla well, and hope that their brave venture succeeds, despite the heavy losses that they're making at the moment. But if I were to buy a Model 3, it wouldn't be until the car was well established and the company's finances seemed secure.
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Surely you would be paying the deposit on a credit card... meaning the credit card company will be liable under the CCA __IF__ something happened to Tesla ?
I can't see any sensible person walking into a Tesla showroom with a bag of tenners for the deposit.
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What happens to these refundable deposits if the company goes broke?
Bad luck Credit Card company
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What happens to these refundable deposits if the company goes broke?
Bad luck Credit Card company
I think Panasonic has a substantial stake in Tesla, I couldn't find out how much.
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What happens to these refundable deposits if the company goes broke?
Bad luck Credit Card company
I think Panasonic has a substantial stake in Tesla, I couldn't find out how much.
Could still go out of business though
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I think we are all aware of the section 75 protection available when paying a car deposit, but how long does this protection last for?
The limit of civil liability is 6 years in the UK, is this the time limit of section 75 protection?
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I must say I've been more impressed with the Murai fuel cell powered car rather than just plain battery. The biggest killer with all of these technologies is infrastructure, or where can I fill the car up. In the case of the hydrogen cell car a full tank in a minute with a 350 mile range per fill up, but you have to find a filling station that can cater first.
But then I suspect this was the issue over 100 years ago when the new fangled petrol engine made it's debut.
The biggest obstacle for HFCV will be fuel cost. The EU's 2025 target for wholesale liquid hydrogen prices is £4.40/kg. With the Mirai having a fuel economy of 66 miles per kg, that gives a pence per mile price of 6.7p. With a BEV, fuel cost is around 2p per mile, while a Diesel that does 66MPG has a fuel costs of about 7.2p per mile. The latter two are both retail costs and include the relevant taxes.
If Petrol and Diesel are to die off, the tax burden from fuel duty and VED needs to be reallocated. This is doable with BEVs as the running costs are so low, but putting the tax burden on to HFCVs will make them very expensive to run.
Mass Market HFCVs are a long way off though. The Mirai is a proof of concept, aand one seriously expensive car - Toyota are estimated to be losing €50,000-€100,000 on each one they sell. Based on where HFCV development and infrastructure is, they're probably a decade behind BEVs right now.
Edited by McPhee on 20/04/2016 at 11:52
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