Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Sat 26 Mar 2016 20:30

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

DPF full in December '15, straight red alarm. Booked in with large independent garage for diagnosis, they said 87% full and really needed replacing as it wouldn't regen on the vehicle. A clean was given as option but the price was prohibitive. Replaced £1100 clean £850. I when with a new one and had the car back the following afternoon. All good and looking forward to DPF problem free motoring.

In Feb, I noticed the exhaust was blowing and called them to book it in, on the day it was due in guess what? Yep the DPF full red alarm came on. Needless to say I called them and they said they would look at it. They gave me some reason that the car wasn't regenerating as they thought there was a leak on the induction system and they needed time to use smoke to identify where. They had it for another day, couldn't find any leak but did think a pipe was a bit kinked so supported it with a tie wrap. They cleared the DPF and I got the car back after handing over £60 for the new exhaust brackets.

Today 26th March the damn DPF red alarm is back on. I'm really begining to wonder if they actually replaced the DPF in the first place. Should a new unit get blocked twice in three months and approx 3500 miles?

Should I start to get angry with them now or is this fault to be expected with the type of journeys it's doing?

I've been using wynns DPF additive every 3rd or fourth tank full, actually three bottles since December and there is one in the full tank now. I've been doing steady motorway runs to activate the passive regen but still get the problem. It does do short journeys about 6 per day of around 2.5 miles, 2 journeys per day of around 8.5 miles then the usual driving town and country driving.

Any help and advice gratefully received. Thanks!

Edited by CjonesXF on 26/03/2016 at 20:33

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Sat 26 Mar 2016 23:00

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Avant

If you like your XF otherwise, flog this one ASAP and get a petrol one: you might even get a newer one for the same price, as for the moment diesels still, less and less deservedly, hold their value better than petrols.

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Sat 26 Mar 2016 23:20

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - bathtub tom

Have you ever given it an 'Italian tune-up'?

I mean holding it on the rev limiter for a minute or two in 2nd or 3rd?

Full throttle acceleration can also help.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 08:59

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - gordonbennet

I'm afraid i can only agree with Avant, i came away from Diesels after around 30 years of reliable economical (slow in the early days :-) use, for reasons of being increasingly fragile and unfit for general purpose unless used in ideal long journey use...yes i know there are exceptions and despite the stick French cars sometimes receive PSA (and others) cars with EOLYS additive seem to be a better general bet.

The problem here is that no owner/driver has a clue whats going on, despite all the technology of the system, no one at the car makers deemed it in everyones interests to have necessary info available on the dash as to the state of the DPF, nor a system of the owner/driver triggering a regen when they (and only they, not the all seeing computer tasked with emptying your wallet) are off on a suitable journey for a good old fashioned extended clear out, as things stand you could drive 70 miles and 2 minutes from your destination the thing could start a regen, and you wouldn't have a clue about this.

There is no excuse saying that white goods owners would have information overload if they did have the info, it can easily be put deep in the menu and only be part of the dash display if the owner requires it.

Until they make the system owner friendly and fit for purpose, i as many others have done, will not be buying any modern Diesels, unless so cheap used that they are disposable.

OP have you tried contacting an independant Diesel workshops, the cost you've been quoted for cleaning is frankly ridiculous, i have no doubt a good Diesel workshops can clean your DPF at much less cost for you and they might have some solutions for you for future problems...can't help you with where to go (or whether the good garage guide above has a Diesel sub section?), but if you have any contacts in the private hire trade that uses Diesel taxis they should know who does and doesn't know their business.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 12:00

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Railroad.

Have you ever given it an 'Italian tune-up'?

I mean holding it on the rev limiter for a minute or two in 2nd or 3rd?

Full throttle acceleration can also help.

That will achieve absolutely nothing. The driver has no control over the running of the engine, or the regeneration process. The ECM runs the engine. All the driver does is make inputs to the ECM via the pedals. The ECM will commence and stop the regeneration process when the conditions to do so are met. And that is usually at a steady speed of around 50mph over a certain distance, which would be best achieved on an open road such as a motorway or rural dual carriageway. Ragging the engine will cause the ECM to abort a DPF regeneration that's in progress.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 12:33

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - RT

Have you ever given it an 'Italian tune-up'?

I mean holding it on the rev limiter for a minute or two in 2nd or 3rd?

Full throttle acceleration can also help.

That will achieve absolutely nothing. The driver has no control over the running of the engine, or the regeneration process. The ECM runs the engine. All the driver does is make inputs to the ECM via the pedals. The ECM will commence and stop the regeneration process when the conditions to do so are met. And that is usually at a steady speed of around 50mph over a certain distance, which would be best achieved on an open road such as a motorway or rural dual carriageway. Ragging the engine will cause the ECM to abort a DPF regeneration that's in progress.

You're right about an active regeneration, it's outside the control of the driver - but driving briskly at medium rpm for 20 mins will carry out a passive regeneration.

For those people whose driving pattern includes such trips regularly possibly never need an active regeneration.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 12:46

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Railroad.

In any event, not all of the particulate matter produced by the combustion process can be broken down small enough to pass through the filter during regeneration. The more short urban journeys the vehicle does the sooner the DPF will become blocked to the point where a regeneration won't clear it. Then it needs to be replaced. Petrols are definitely recommended for people who don't use their cars for regular long journeys.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 13:58

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

I understand from this and the other replies that the short journeys aren't helping but I've had the vehicle since mid June and no issue until just before Christmas and twice since with no changes to the use of the vehicle. I'd have thought a new one would not get blocked so quickly.

I think I'll get it sorted again and have to sell it for a petrol vehicle.

I wondered would it be best to take it back to where it was replaced or try somewhere else.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 15:02

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - madf

I understand from this and the other replies that the short journeys aren't helping but I've had the vehicle since mid June and no issue until just before Christmas and twice since with no changes to the use of the vehicle. I'd have thought a new one would not get blocked so quickly. I think I'll get it sorted again and have to sell it for a petrol vehicle. I wondered would it be best to take it back to where it was replaced or try somewhere else.

Winter means colder engine starts, longer to warm up so you are generating more particulates.

Your driving pattern is designed to kill any DPF...

Edited by madf on 27/03/2016 at 15:03

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 10:10

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Cyd

It does do short journeys about 6 per day of around 2.5 miles, 2 journeys per day of around 8.5 miles then the usual driving town and country driving.

Don't know what you mean by "usual driving", but the rest there is setting the alarms off!! That drive cycle sounds entirely unsuitable for a modern diesel with a DPF. Apart from anything else the engine is probably hardly ever at proper running temperature. So for two reasons you'd be better with a petrol - it will warm quicker which is better for the 'health' of the engine and its longevity and there'll be no DPF to worry about.

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Sun 27 Mar 2016 11:08

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - daveyjp

Agree with others. DPF systems are complicated. A warning could be a full DPF, but it could also be an erroneous message due to a problem with one of the numerous sensors which control the regen process.

If you aren't doing 15-20,000 a year with plenty of longer trips swap for a petrol. It may cost slightly more in fuel and tax, but how much has the DPF problem cost to date?

A colleague has just had a similar issue with an Insignia diesel, 50,000 miles and a four figure bill due to DPF regen problems. He also thought a diesel was a good way of saving money, but he also spends most of the time doing short trips so a diesel was never a good idea.

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Mon 28 Mar 2016 14:51

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Paulsxf

Earlier 'Classic' XFs suffer with this. Look at the XF forums for more info. I believe Jaguar released a software update to try and help although, from your other replies, it looks like you need to do longer runs to give it chance to regenerate.

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Mon 28 Mar 2016 15:41

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Perfection

When the garage replaced the DPF, did they update the ECU ? It's wortyh finding out from Jaguar if this is required. I am only speaking for my experience on my Toyota Yaris when the DPF was replaced, the ECU was updated with a new health status for the DPF.

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Mon 28 Mar 2016 17:17

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

I'll ask them about the ecu tomorrow as they're shut today.

Anyone have any idea why on all three occasions I've had the alarm it's gone straight to Red without the orange warning giving the opportunity to activate regen during a run?

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Tue 29 Mar 2016 18:33

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - gordonbennet

Lo and behold i had to use a new lorry today, euro 6 DAF artic, horrible vehicle what have they done, it wouldn't pull you out of bed and the switchgear has been designed for the gameboy generation, nil points.

However having a poke nose round the menu, i find ''soot filter'' aha, press ok and a gauge pops up showing the state of the DPF, and if it needs regeneration there is a button to start one.

Simples eh.

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Tue 29 Mar 2016 21:04

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Railroad.

When the garage replaced the DPF, did they update the ECU ? It's wortyh finding out from Jaguar if this is required. I am only speaking for my experience on my Toyota Yaris when the DPF was replaced, the ECU was updated with a new health status for the DPF.

Very good point. Many engine controllers will have to be reset following a forced regeneration or DPF replacement.

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Wed 30 Mar 2016 12:24

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Brit_in_Germany

If the DPF filter or driving history is not the base problem, it could either be an air leak after the turbo (the intercooler splitting or the pipes) or a sensor problem (air mass flow or DPF differential pressure).

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Thu 31 Mar 2016 01:15

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

I took it in today, has been regenerated. They did full check on alarm history and did indeed find message relating to left side DPF. It's booked in again for a week on Friday so they can check soot levels to gauge soot build up. Hopefully we're on the route to fixing it. No charge for today's work as yet.

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Thu 31 Mar 2016 13:28

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - The Gingerous One

Hi,

Hope the problem gets resolved quickly. And I concur with those others here who suggest that your journey patterns are unsuitable for a modern diesel.

But if you do look for a petrol XF, please bear in mind that there aren't many about, the older ones (08 - 60 plate) use a variant of the 3L N/A (c.240bhp) engine that is in the S-type, or else have a 4.2 S/C or 5L N/A V8.

For those newer cars, you can get the 3L S/C V6 (c.330bhp) or the turbo-nutter XF-R (5L V8 S/C, c.510bhp or more if XFR-S).

I have a '10 plate 3L N/A one, no DPFs but c.20mpg around town (less if lots of stop/start in traffic) and 30mpg on a run.

Road tax for mine is £490/yr. But at least there's no DPF to worry about....

HTH and sorry for thread hijack, let us know how the DPF saga goes.

BTW, which engine in the XF have you got, 2.2, 2.7 or 3.0 D ?

regards,

Stuart

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Fri 1 Apr 2016 01:14

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

Hi Stuart,

I've got a 59 plate MY10 3.0D. Have done a 250 mile round trip today no issues.

Am planning on drastically changing driving habits and have an oil and filter planned for change towards end of April.

Will keep all updated.

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Fri 1 Apr 2016 01:16

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - CjonesXF

BTW am really considering the 5.0 bonkers mobile in a few years once this one is ready for replacing........

That's if I haven't driven it off a cliff in the meantime!! Lol.

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Fri 1 Apr 2016 11:12

Jaguar XF - DPF full, again! - Brit_in_Germany

Two further thoughts - an EGR problem can lead to excessive smoke which would block the DPF. Also, if the battery is getting old, curious faults can arise.

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