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Received MG4E postal requisition for section 172 - owlbert

Hi everyone,

Some background...I received a NIP (within 14 days) relating to a speeding offence committed late July 2015, having genuinely no idea who was driving at the time as myself and my partner regularly take day trips to various skateparks accross the Southeast (2-4 per week - at the time we were both temporarily unemployed). I replied to the NIP stating that I could not remember who was driving but that it would either be myself or my girlfriend and asked for photographic evidence in order to ascertain who was driving at the time and from reading this site I also included her contact details, I also mentioned that (in an attempt of "reasonable diligence") I had spoken to my girlfriend and she could not recall who was driving, I had phoned the manager of a petrol station that I know we often refuel at, in order to ask for CCTV footage of the day the offence was commited so that if we did happen to fill up there on that day then we could see who was in the drivers seat, as the location of the speed camera is about 2 miles from this station, so if we filled up there then the person driving off the forecourt would have been driving at the time of the camera flash. No such luck, the station manager informed me on the phone that the CCTV is only available for the previous 2 weeks and we were 1 week too late. I also informed them that as I could not be sure who was driving and it is an offence to lie, that I did not want to guess and be wrong if in fact the pictures showed who was driving.

They responded with the photos showing my car from the back and a just readable number plate but the windows are completely opaque - so no identifying the driver. In the letter they also completely ignored my explanation for not being able to identify the driver. Their letter started by thanking me for the correspondence in regard to the request for photgraphic evidence, mentioned they are not required by law but in the interests of openness the photos were provided. The letter did not contain any information at all about what to do next and did not state that I must reply to the original NIP or provide any further information and so, without further instruction and no warning for not replying to this letter, I did not reply. I ignored it and sent nothing back.

In late November my partner received a NIP for the identity of the driver. She replied to this stating that her partner (me) had replied to the original NIP in order to get the photos and that these had not allowed any positive identification to be made and she asked if they were withholdng any clearer images. She also included a copy of the reply to the original NIP letter sent by me. I had hoped that this would be enough as the first letter sent back by me had stated that both myself and my partner were unable to say who was driving at the time, I thought that as they had stopped communicating with me and now had moved onto my partner that they must have accepted my reasons for not providing the identity.

Next they replied with a generic reply referencing "The Code for Crown Prosecutors" indicating that they were going to proceed with a prosecution anyway, completey ignoring the letter I sent back again. This letter also states in bold type that The Registered Keeper/Keeper of a vehicle has legal obligation to supply the Police with full details of the driver of the vehicle in pursuance of Section 172...etc BUT...they have sent this to my partner, who is NOT the registered keeper, Can they do this??

Now, I can swear I replied to this but I can't remember what I said exactly but it would have been something along the lines of a reference to the first letter I sent back stating we both can't remember that far back, we don't keep records, reiterating all the facts of the first letter.

I also stupidly did not get proof of postage this time (as I was sick of paying £7.50 odd for special/recorded delivery - it was starting to add up to the cost of the fine in postage) rather I sent it with just a stamp. Suprisingly they are now claiming she did not reply and she has received now a MG4E Postal Requisition - for failing to give information relating to the identification of the driver.

MG4E Postal Requisition

Within this letter was an EROS Reference (police mail computer system) that states it received all the letters I sent, except for (how conveniently) the one I failed to send as recorded mail. It also states that: "The defendent was identified as they have been nominated by another" - This is absolutely not true - I was very careful not to implicate my partner or myself.

It mentions a court date and I feel like because I mentioned her as a possible driver the police have taken that as me identifying her as the driver, even though in my letter I was extremely careful to say I cannot recall who was driving and only mentioned her name as it could only have been either myself or her. Especially since they have now stopped pursuing me and have sent this court date to her.

The MG4E also mentions that if I require a witness to attend court on that date then I must return the witness statement slip within 7 days - should I reply and say that I will be her witness? And if so what should I say?

I have dont a ton of reading up about this and i'm thinking the only defence I have is (other than the 172(4) defence) that I did reply to the original notices and that the last reply by my partner must have got lost in the post, but how will magistrates take that?

I am now stuck for what to do, I really want to do this on my own as I can't afford solicitors fees.

Is it too late for them to bring forward the charge of failing to provide information? It was 6 months from the date of the original receipt of the NIP in early February 2016, and 6 months from the date of the offence from late January 2016.

If you've read this far then thank you, it ended up being a bit longer than I thought it would. But what should I do?

Received MG4E postal requisition for section 172 - Palcouk

See this HJ FAQ Re: who was the Driver

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/speeding-defences-2/

At the end of the day its whether your inability to name the driver is plausable

Received MG4E postal requisition for section 172 - FP

Courts are likely to be pretty sceptical about this line of defence - for obvious reasons.

Received MG4E postal requisition for section 172 - slkfanboy

I think basically "The defendent was identified as they have been nominated by another" is a standard legal term you must fully understand.

As pointed out above the documents must be served on time which from what you have said is the case. Every thing else is less important just make sure all corospondants are filed with the court, regardless of quest when and if received.

The court is more intested in the evidence and what is reasonable than if/when it was sent on time. So don't lie that you sent something if you didn't it about you appearing honest and believable and if anything can be show otherwise that will count against you.

You must provide evidence and so must your wife and be able to demonstrait you have maid a reasonable effort to provide the information.

You provide a reason why you both don't think you where driving the car, one that will pass some legal testing. I can't remember = I not telling you in a court, as the court would consider 14 days a reasanable time span for some to remember what they did on a specific day. Unless you can provide reason why that would not be the case, i.e. super stressful time or the alike.