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Mon 1 Feb 2016 23:02

who should be responsible for accident penalty - dincognito16

on september 1 the car my mother and i were in was hit by another car (according to the cops the driver who hit us had only recently got his driver's licence and had only been driving for about a week )

we were fine no injuries however the car we were in was my dads (he let us borrow it because at the time my moms only vehicle was a van and it is a petrol guzzler so we would often borrow his for longer trips)

when we spoke to my dad he checked his insurance and we learned that when he renewed his insurance not long before this accident he didnt put my mother on it (he claims he forgot but because he is a bit of a cheapskate so to speak she believe's he did not put her on it on purpose)

today we got a letter stating that as she was driving without insurance she is now threatened with a 300£ fine and 6 points on her licence

as she did not know she was driving uninsured who should receive the penalty and the fine

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 00:04

who should be responsible for accident penalty - FP

"as she did not know she was driving uninsured who should receive the penalty and the fine"

I'm pretty certain your mother, the driver, is responsible for having insurance. Ignorance is not an excuse - everyone is responsible for themselves and needs to know, personally, where they stand. She may want to have a discussion with your father about it, of course (!).

There's a slim possibility a court might exercise some lenience if they believed there had been a genuine mistake, but I wouldn't bank on it.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 00:20

who should be responsible for accident penalty - Palcouk

The driver, your mother is responsible, ignorance is not a defence, it might be mitigation, if in a prior year she was a named driver.

And if the police realy want to go the whole hog, then your father is responsible for allowing someone to drive who is not insured, incurring further penalties to him.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 09:51

who should be responsible for accident penalty - Cris_on_the_gas

on september 1 the car my mother and i were in was hit by another car (according to the cops the driver who hit us had only recently got his driver's licence and had only been driving for about a week )

today we got a letter stating that as she was driving without insurance she is now threatened with a 300£ fine and 6 points on her licence

The fact that the other driver had only had a driving licence for 1 week is irrevelant. It is about the standard of driving. you did not state who you thought was liable for the crash, just that you were hit by another car.

There are two matters here quite independant of each other.

1. Who was liable for the crash. Clearly it will be you and your mothers recollection versus the other drivers recollection. were there any witnesses or CCTV or photos of the vechiles immediately after the crash. It isa civil matter between your mother and the third parties Insurance company to sort out.

2. your mother was in contrravention of s.162 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 of failing to ensure she was insured against third party risk This is a criminal matter of which from what you describe she is guilty of. Sure the best advise would be to plead to the offence and offer mitigation in defence.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 16:28

who should be responsible for accident penalty - slkfanboy

Matter 1 will also now be your mothers fault on the simple basis she should not have been on the road without insurance.

Matter 2 as another poster pointed out it is also an offence to permit some to drive a car without insurance.

So worst case your mother pays to have the other car fixed and mother and father both get 6 points and a fine.

A right royal family mess.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 16:45

who should be responsible for accident penalty - skidpan

Most reputable insurance companies now have an uninsurred driver promise which basically mean that if you are involved in an accident with an identified uninsurred driver your own insurance will repair the car with no loss of no-claims and no excess to pay i.e. its treated as a no blame accident since the other party should not have been on the road.

So the other driver should get the car fixed with no hassle.

But that does not mean the their insurers will not persue the costs from your parents.

And its pretyy inevitable that hefty points and fines will be levied against both your parents.

Trying to blame the other party because they had not been driving long is not going to work. They were legal, your parents were not.

Lesson learned I hope.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 21:24

who should be responsible for accident penalty - focussed

Going along with the subject of this thread, what would happen to a driver if you were driving a company car and the company had neglected to insure it?

Not really the individual driver's fault-you don't own it or pay the bills.

This actually happened at a company of about 100 employees I worked at, the 25 or so travelling staff with company cars including me, only found out about 6 months afterwards that we had all been driving around for 3 months without valid insurance. After that we all demanded and got a copy of the company car insurance certificate which they had refused to issue at all previously.

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Tue 2 Feb 2016 21:55

who should be responsible for accident penalty - RT

Going along with the subject of this thread, what would happen to a driver if you were driving a company car and the company had neglected to insure it?

Not really the individual driver's fault-you don't own it or pay the bills.

This actually happened at a company of about 100 employees I worked at, the 25 or so travelling staff with company cars including me, only found out about 6 months afterwards that we had all been driving around for 3 months without valid insurance. After that we all demanded and got a copy of the company car insurance certificate which they had refused to issue at all previously.

In legal terms, it surely is always the driver's responsibility - just as it's an LGV driver's responsibility that both his load and vehicle are safe.

But in practice, most of us assume that all is in order.

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Wed 3 Feb 2016 00:27

who should be responsible for accident penalty - focussed

"But in practice, most of us assume that all is in order"

Yes and that's what happened, it was only found out much later when somebody spilled the beans by mistake and there was an unholy row about it.

The MD was a cheapskate interfering beancounter (my manager's description-not mine) who had taken the responsibility for arranging the fleet insurance away from the company secretary because he thought he could get a cheaper deal and failed to sort it out. properly.

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Wed 3 Feb 2016 00:41

who should be responsible for accident penalty - Avant

"But in practice, most of us assume that all is in order."

Indeed we do - very natural to do so. The easiest thing to do if you're a company car driver is to ask the fleet manager for a copy of the insurance certificate.

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Wed 3 Feb 2016 07:54

who should be responsible for accident penalty - RT

Back in the '80s, our Finance Director's 22-year old secretary used to do all the insurance administration - she eventually discovered that no-one under 25 was insured to drive the company vehicles - they were regularly used by her for banking runs, somewhat embarassingly.

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Wed 3 Feb 2016 11:59

who should be responsible for accident penalty - skidpan

The MD was a cheapskate interfering beancounter

Think I worked for him when he was our Finance Director.

Replaced the van fleet with Bedford Rascals because they were cheap.

Moved the Mobile Phone account (200+ phones) to a network with limited local coverage.

Then had the CEO's office suite refurbed.

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Wed 3 Feb 2016 20:33

who should be responsible for accident penalty - focussed

"The easiest thing to do if you're a company car driver is to ask the fleet manager for a copy of the insurance certificate"

Nice try -

And be continually told before this incident that you don't need it in normal driving as you have 7 days to produce it-as we all were.

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Sat 20 Feb 2016 12:28

who should be responsible for accident penalty - dieselnut

In your first post you stated " at the time my moms only vehicle was a van ".

Presumably your mum had insurance on her van.

Check the wording on the certificate.

It may well cover her ( third party only ) for driving other vehicles.

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