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What make of cars, csgmart? I know the brake comes on and off automatically with Golfs, as I test drove one: but I don't think it did with the BMW 2-series I tried the other day.
I'm sure the reason you've had no problems is that all the cars have been automatics. I wouldn't relish the combination of manual transmission and electronic brake for a hill start, unless the hill hold device lasts longer than it does on my Octavia.
Edited by Avant on 07/01/2016 at 22:02
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My DS5 is manual with EPB, very intuitive to use and every time I drive a car with manual parking brake it just seems clumsy in comparison.
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My 10yr old Audi A8 has one. I don't like it much. You can't use it to trickle slowly down a hill. I use it about once a month so it hopefully neither seizes up nor wears its motors out.
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What make of cars, csgmart? I know the brake comes on and off automatically with Golfs, as I test drove one: but I don't think it did with the BMW 2-series I tried the other day.
I'm sure the reason you've had no problems is that all the cars have been automatics. I wouldn't relish the combination of manual transmission and electronic brake for a hill start, unless the hill hold device lasts longer than it does on my Octavia.
Avant - 2 x Tiguans, 1 x Jaguar and 2 x Mercs (actually with these the EHB doesn't automatically come on - you have to press the footbrake pedal hard for a second or so and the brake engages fully allowing you to take your foot off the brake pedal. A blip of throttle releases the brake and away you go).
I agree entirely about all the cars being automatic. I wouldn't want to drive a manual with an EHB and have to negotiate hill starts etc. Different story with an automatic of course.
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...I wouldn't want to drive a manual with an EHB and have to negotiate hill starts etc. ...
15-months on and I've not had any issues whatsoever with my 'electromechanical parking brake' on the manual A3 Sportback. I'm touching everything that's wooden as I speak mind! However, like others, I wouldn't have specc'ed it myself but it was built-in so I deal with it accordingly.
As somebody else said, perhaps towards the end of the three-year warranty period I'll be a little more twitchy about it failing. Yet another subliminal ploy by the manufacturers to get us to change vehicles sooner than we'd possibly like to?
Meanwhile, that Hyundai i10... I'm simply loving it for buzzing around MK making it an absolutely ideal 'city-car' in my view. So much so that the Audi hasn't moved from the garage for over a week!!!
I'll post a more complete review of it at the end of Jan?
Cheers...
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I think some people conveniently forget those cars whos handbrake havent held the car after being applied for a while, Xantias where well known for this failure.
My present car now has a EHB and won its towcar group last year, reason they cited for the earlier model not winning was the cable operated handbrake failed to hold the caravan securely on the test slope.
Edited by xtrailman on 08/01/2016 at 12:35
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I'm sure that EHB's are all hunky dory when the car is within warranty, but any car outside warranty I would be seriously hacked off to pay many hundreds or even thousands for a parking brake repair - what a waste of money.
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I'm sure that EHB's are all hunky dory when the car is within warranty, but any car outside warranty I would be seriously hacked off to pay many hundreds or even thousands for a parking brake repair - what a waste of money.
Well, the same could be applied to almost all technology packed in to most modern cars these days - DPFs, Turbos, EHB etc etc - the list goes on.
Fact is that modern cars are so much more reliable than they used to be and properly maintained will go on and on for many year (I accept that some manufacturers have created problems by poor design or application of certain components and for these the poor punter probably has to pay thru the nose to replace parts which should never have been fitted in the first place).
I guess the more nervous / sceptical types should only buy 'older' used cars to avoid these problems or buy cars that have a proven track record of components not failing prematurely.
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Well, the same could be applied to almost all technology packed in to most modern cars these days - DPFs, Turbos, EHB etc etc - the list goes on.
I have bought many parts over the years. I have no problem buying a new turbo if it's down to wear and tear - it's a major part of the engine, built to very fine tolerances, and pretty much essential for the engine it is designed for.
I'd object to paying large amounts of money for a couple of servos who's only primary objective is to move some brake pads.
Usually though, these things come down in price as time goes on and more cars begin to adopt them.
I still can't see the point. My car has a mechanical hill holder that works perfectly.
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You can't have it all, buy new and pay depreciation, or buy used and take a risk.
Cars are that complex now that i'm more than happy to change soon out of warranty.
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You can't have it all, buy new and pay depreciation, or buy used and take a risk.
Cars are that complex now that i'm more than happy to change soon out of warranty.
Couldn't agree more.
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You can't have it all, buy new and pay depreciation, or buy used and take a risk.
Cars are that complex now that i'm more than happy to change soon out of warranty.
Couldn't agree more.
Those shiny suits at the next sales/board meeting will be pleased to know their business plan is paying off better than expected, so well in fact that they'll add a few more ticking time bombs to help things along.
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You can't have it all, buy new and pay depreciation, or buy used and take a risk.
Cars are that complex now that i'm more than happy to change soon out of warranty.
Couldn't agree more.
Those shiny suits at the next sales/board meeting will be pleased to know their business plan is paying off better than expected, so well in fact that they'll add a few more ticking time bombs to help things along.
I think you've misunderstood what I was agreeing to. It comes down to choice.
If you have the money you can either choose to buy a new car and replace it once the warranty runs out. If you don't have the money or would prefer not to spend so much buying a car you can go the secondhand route but there is a potential risk that something at some point may go wrong and you wll have to foot the bill to put it right. If you make your choice carefully it's an excellent way of motoring on the cheap.
I've done / do both and it works for me.
If you (or anyone else) doesn't want to take the risk of buying a car with these things fitted then it's entirely your choice and you of course have the right to do this and no one should criticise you for doing so - I most certainly don't. Equally if someone chooses to buy new and buys a car fitted with EHB's etc then that is their choice and they shouldn't be criticised either.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to debate the pros and cons of these things.
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If you don't have the money or would prefer not to spend so much buying a car you can go the secondhand route but there is a potential risk that something at some point may go wrong and you wll have to foot the bill to put it right. If you make your choice carefully it's an excellent way of motoring on the cheap.
The third alternative is people like me, and there's an awful lot of us about.
We have the money, but we'd rather spend it on things other than modern cars, don't get me wrong i have bought new, a Hilux in 2007.
What us thirders won't do is take part in the shenanigens that the majority of the new car makers are playing, more and more pointless tat which will go wrong as time goes by and will cost an arm and a leg to fix, the point being i don't want that rubbish.
Some might say Dacia caters for people like me, well yes they do if you want another car with a 4 pot engine and no decent auto to boot, i don't, if i did i'd buy a £300 banger.
If i was in a job offering company cars i'd be in a bit of predicament because short of another Hilux or Landcruiser (or other grey import only Toyota such as Fortuna) there really is nothing made today that i would want to have or drive, and thats the crux of the matter for me, i do not want what is made today.
I agree with you that discussing these things is right, but those with good experiences of much that is being put into cars now are people who replace cars regularly with new, and there will always be people who have good experiences used too, but as said above with EPB's in particular i cannot see a single positive reason for having one (all my cars are TC autos so even less reason to have one), so something i shall never be party too just like the poor joke that is a bottle of goo and toy pump to replace the spare wheel, by all means those who want such things fine but i won't be buying the used version.
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What make of cars, csgmart? I know the brake comes on and off automatically with Golfs, as I test drove one: but I don't think it did with the BMW 2-series I tried the other day.
I'm sure the reason you've had no problems is that all the cars have been automatics. I wouldn't relish the combination of manual transmission and electronic brake for a hill start, unless the hill hold device lasts longer than it does on my Octavia.
Avant - 2 x Tiguans, 1 x Jaguar and 2 x Mercs (actually with these the EHB doesn't automatically come on - you have to press the footbrake pedal hard for a second or so and the brake engages fully allowing you to take your foot off the brake pedal. A blip of throttle releases the brake and away you go).
I agree entirely about all the cars being automatic. I wouldn't want to drive a manual with an EHB and have to negotiate hill starts etc. Different story with an automatic of course.
Why would a manual be a problem? once the clutch bite point is engaged on a hill start release the parking brake and away you go, my Jaguar is auto but I wouldn't give a second thought if I wanted to buy a manual car with an E.H.B. Todays cars are designed to be idiot proof or are they failing in that endeavour? As an aside mine is years out of warranty and only worth about 10per cent of it's original purchase price.
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One of the BRs said that the new Outback has an electric parking brake so I looked at the sales information on the Subaru UK website. Sure enough, it has. So I looked at the Levorg (grovel) for the same, sure enough that's another one I will have to avoid. It looks as though the Forester is the only model with a sensible handbrake. Pity that it no longer has the 2.5 litre petrol engine.
BTW The worst handbrake of any car that I've used, and I've used so many, was the one on my old Volvo 440. It had anti-lock brakes and I think they had to use the rear discs for the handbrake. I was feeble, needed adjustment several times a year, and would freeze on in the event of cold weather. On cold mornings it felt as though I was towing the back wheels for the first half mile.
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It had anti-lock brakes and I think they had to use the rear discs for the handbrake. I was feeble, needed adjustment several times a year, and would freeze on in the event of cold weather.
That handbrake getting progressively more useless was a handy early warning on Mk4 Zodiacs and Rover P6's (with the swinging caliper rear brakes) that the flimsy outer covers and seals had failed and the internal self adjusters were now seized.
Unfit for purpose brake design is far from a new trend, its just that we tended to fix our own in those days, at least we had the option then, wouldn't have a clue about fixing an EPB, bit of luck that i'll never have to..:-)
Thankfully, seeing as how awkward they were to get to, the Rover calipers being mounted inboard beside the diff casing were kept out of the worse oif the weather so failed less often than the Ford offerings, about whch i could write a small miserable book.
Edited by gordonbennet on 09/01/2016 at 21:24
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Thankfully, seeing as how awkward they were to get to, the Rover calipers being mounted inboard beside the diff casing were kept out of the worse oif the weather so failed less often than the Ford offerings, about whch i could write a small miserable book.
GB, yet another tantalising hint of the traumatic tales you could tell for our education and entertainment, do consider becoming an author when you retire from the day job.
I note, by the way, that the new Kia Ceed is afflicted with double clutch gearbox (as well as the tyre pressure sensors now inflicted on all makes, thanks to Brussels bureaucrats) and may even have EPB as well.
I shall continue to take care of my 2009 i30 which is mercifully old style gears and handbrake.
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I note, by the way, that the new Kia Ceed is afflicted with double clutch gearbox (as well as the tyre pressure sensors now inflicted on all makes, thanks to Brussels bureaucrats) and may even have EPB as well.
I hope this isn't a portent of Hyundai/Kia turning into just another mainland european type car maker just offering a longer warranty to differentiate, their old school (endearingly old fashioned if it aint broke don't fix it) once Japanese only style of good and sensible simple durable design has gained them a large number of admirers.
Yes Galileo keep that i30 well looked after, you might find that as the newer electronic for no earthly point afflicted models age if their reputation for reliability joins ever more German and French makers, then older models like yours become the very last used cars that are a safe bet for the likes of me and others who will not buy into the latest wheeze they've dreamed up.
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Why would a manual be a problem?
I never said it would be. I just wouldn't want to drive a manual car fitted with an EHB, that's all.
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I wouldn't opt for one if there was a choice but it wouldn't deter me from buying a car that I wanted be it manual or automatic, a good driver will always adapt to changes whether good or not. the others can choose to settle for second or third best.
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My experience was in my last company car, an Avensis and it was poor. You needed to apply via switch randomly placed on the dashboard. Other systems that automatically apply may be better. One issue if you live and park in hilly areas is that there was no fine control for parking manouvres on slopes - not a question of adaptation, you lose the facility to work/gradually release the handbrake - its either fully off or fully on. Now I am a private buyer, who aims to keep cars for many years, I dislike the possibility of writing off an otherwise serviceable ageing car for failure of an EPB. I know there are many mandatory items that can put you in that position (catalysts etc) but to do so on an optional item is an unecessary risk for little or no gain.
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Funny you should mention the Avensis, that was one of only two cars I have driven where I could use the electric parking brake without it impeding what I wanted to do! (The other was a Mercedes B class which worked in exactly the same way).
The difference on these cars is that the switch is set to operate the right (or wrong if you're a VAG fanatic) way round. You push the switch to apply the brake, and lift it up, without needing to put your foot on the brake pedal to release.
To hill start on this arrangement, you lift the switch to release the parking brake and let the clutch in with exactly the same timing as would be done with a manual handbrake. It's much better than the VAG/Vauxhall/Renault auto release type where you never really know exactly when it is going to relase. On a car you don't know this usually ends up in some grandad revving/clutch slipping to guarantee not stalling the thing!
The other alternative on the 'push switch and brake to release' type is to do some pedal dancing between brake and accellerator, which in a driving test would probably leave you with a fault/fail for not having proper control of the car.
As an aside, what happens if you do a driving test in a car with "hill hold" or a fully automatic parking brake? If you pass, are you still allowed to drive a car without these features. Given the number of people who struggle with hill starts when learning to drive, you'd have thought it should have a similar restriction to doing the test with an automatic gearbox.
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Skodalan, they issue manual licences to HGV/PSV tests passed in automatic vehicles these days, so suspect anything goes now in the headlong rush to automate the world.
Of all the cars i delivered, and i got out of that game 6 years ago so the latest incarnations i have no experience of, Avensis electric parking brakes did work well (even if the switch is in a ridiculous place and works backwards) and not one failed during delievery, the same cannot be said for PSA's efforts.
You might be interested to know that Volvo artics now have EPB's (why? i haven't a clue) and its found more or less in the same rather odd spot as Avensis.
Ironically EPB is the only reason we don't have an Avensis tourer on the drive.
Edited by gordonbennet on 09/01/2016 at 23:41
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Likewise, GB, I would also be driving an Avensis if it had a conventional handbrake. I suspect the Marketing kids had a rush of blood to the head with that one, to compete with VAG et al at the time. Incidentally, there are even problems with the Avensis design, a search on the web will throw up a few and about a grand a go to fix. Note that the Auris is conventional, that shall probably be my next car when the Tourer has dropped in value a bit more. Apart from the non-intuitive designs of all the different manufacturers, the issue to me is the complexity and cost of working on the back brakes and fixing stuff. Good design is simple design and there's nothing wrong with a wire and a handle, similarly rear drum brakes,although not fashionable, are functional and effective. There's also the fact that it's not possible to control the car on the handbrake in slippery conditions, as anyone who's driven on snow/ice, mud, will agree, a dab on the handbrake adds that extra degree of control ( practice first though!)
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Bazza i think we come from the same mould, however i'm quite happy with the drum inside disc design thankfully fitted to all my cars because i get to keep the sensible shoe operated parking brake (that in most cases only needs shoes once in the life of the car due to collected rust/dust making grooves in the otherwise unworn shoes found when the discs need renewal), and also benefit from easily replaced and maintained standard caliper discs on the rear for footbrakes, case of having cake and eating it?..:-)
I too was surprised and pleased to see a real handbrake on the latest Auris, i'm hoping that Avensis replacement reverts to normal.
Cos i drive umpteen times more miles in a lorry than i do a car i make use of the variable application of the parking brake lots at work, one reason why i'm dead against electric parking brakes on lorries is the lack of variable...and i haven't even thought about the loss of secondary braking...that'll be the second loss over the years, first time when we lost the blue air line which was full set of air lines running parallel from tractor down the trailer, that blue line carried the air from the seconday brake which in some vehicles was a second brake handle (dead mans handle) and/or a dedicated trailer brake as found in real Scanias.
Its only just dawned on me thismorning that unless there's a secondary brake handle in the cab, which i haven't seen but will ask the regular drivers when i go back on Tuesday and update here, these new EPB equipped lorries don't have a fully variable secondary braking any more, now i'm happy to be put right and re-educated but the more we dumb down and remove alternatives there goes another line of defence should the main system go wrong...first we lose the full second set of air lines now we've lost the seconday system completely...or is it me.
We've gained hill hold functions on lorries too (in the designers mind no need for gentle secondary braking then as you might just hold the handbrake gently without letting it apply in a car to control a momentary stop on an inlcine in a car), something else i'm against and switch the thing off immediately on any vehicle i use, one person controls a lorry and its the driver, no one else and no blinking electronics thankyou.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/01/2016 at 10:01
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, these new EPB equipped lorries don't have a fully variable secondary braking any more, now i'm happy to be put right and re-educated but the more we dumb down and remove alternatives there goes another line of defence should the main system go wrong...first we lose the full second set of air lines now we've lost the seconday system completely...or is it me.
Talking of newer technology in lorries, have you ever seen Ice Road Truckers. One of the drivers trucks went into DPF regeneration mode just as it was on a frozen lake. Considering that you have to maintain a certain speed in order to stop the ice cracking, I would have thought that they could make an exception and remove the DPF for trucks used in these conditions. You could argue that anything could go wrong, but a DPF is something that they could really do without, unless they could maybe do a forced regeneration before they approach a lake.
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Never watch IRT Corax, tried it once just as i watched the Stobart T&T once episode starring one of my old crew on the transporters (the shortish bloke Ian who is a very good tranny driver), never bothered with either again as i dislike that style of sensationalsed docusoap.
I suppose mine goes into regens (EGR equipped euro5, not adblue) but i wouldn't have a clue when cos nothing comes up on the dash, and i've never noticed the useable power go from dismal to dreadful.
What type/make of lorry was it and what driving difference did it make please, did he carry on with just the knowledge it was actually happening (useful to know) or was it a dramatic will he won't he make it story for the program?
My lorry did let me down this week mind, failure to start which turned out to be a corroded and detached wire on the starter solenoid, usefully mounted behind the chassis and buried under a plumbers nightmare of pipework, as one might come to expect from a German vehicle, so no chance of shorting out the contacts as we might have done at one time and no bump starting with the automated manual gearbox from hell, and this is progress apparently..:-) they still won't get me a Hino.
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I'm with you there GB, Can't stand these American style over dramatic TV shows.
I watched the Stobart T&T and can only say it was nothing like when I drove for Eddie's establishment, Whole days planned by the transport planners living in utopia where no traffic or loading/unloading delays exist. I was usually running an hour or more behind by the second stop of the day.
One ridiculous incident that sticks in my mind was being refused to enter a depot in Edmonton to collect a full load as the company said the advertising on my trailer curtains was of a competitor, this then involved driving empty to reading to change the trailer for a Stobart one. You couldn't make it up if you tried!
Edited by Wackyracer on 10/01/2016 at 12:29
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What type/make of lorry was it and what driving difference did it make please, did he carry on with just the knowledge it was actually happening (useful to know) or was it a dramatic will he won't he make it story for the program?
I agree it's totally over the top and the repetitive narrative spoils it, but I like the inhospitable scenery and some of the drivers are likeable - I do like seeing a trailer being drifted around an icy corner, even if it wasn't intentional!
I have no idea what the truck was, being American, all I can tell you is it had a large bonnet, yes, you're non the wiser. It went into a limp home mode and wouldn't accelerate. The driver was a girl called Lisa, she carried on but too slowly. Apparently if you stop, there is too much weight bearing down on the ice with risk of going through.
Probably not as dangerous as they make out, but it's still a life threatening place to work, you can see that.
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It went into a limp home mode and wouldn't accelerate. The driver was a girl called Lisa, she carried on but too slowly.
Limp home mode in a lorry due to a DPF regn? if thats the standard of modern lorry design we'd better start breeding Shire horses and building covered wagons again and get some practice with our Winchesters.
Quite agree with you in your original post, if that system can induce limp mode then it should be able to be overriden and delayed for a short while till the ice has been passed over on vehicles going to such places where stopping could mean the difference between life and death.
Actually though its not just lorries, all vehicles with these dubious half cocked systems should let the driver know the condition of things and that a regen is due, that way anyone with an ounce of mechanical sympathy can plan...and trigger if necessary...a regen when its most suitable, not the current state of affairs when nobody has the foggiest idea whats going on nor when something needs a fix nor even half the time if its ongoing.
I learned elsewhere that the fleet of Fiat Doblo's currently going onto Royal Mail fleet have a system on board where someone can trigger a forced regen at the side of the road should the need arise...i'd like to know more about that if anyone does know more, even if i'm misinformed...if this is the case it should be an option for all vehicles equipped with DPF's, whilst most of the motoring public wouldn't have a clue it would be one less problem for people like us where modern Diesels are concerned.
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For the life of me I just can't figure out why there are so many replies to this subject. More correspondence on this thread than on the rest put together in fact.
Why so when NO-ONE uses their handbrake AT ALL these days anyway. Or so it would seem judging by the vast and overwhelming majority of drivers who stop at lights or roundabouts and use the footbrake and not the handbrake. Up to now I've presumed they all have defective (perhaps electronic) handrakes that have ceased to work long ago otherwise why would they sit there with total disregard to the driver behind who has to suffer the retina removing brightess of many brake lights (either the main ones or the third, high mounted, ones? Additionally they put themselves and the car in front at risk in the event of being rear ended coz surely the first thing that'll happen in the event of a rear ender is the foot will come off the brake and they're planted in the back of the car,lorry, bus cycle, motor bike in front.
Not that I find it irritating, of course, I just love looking at rows of inconsiderate individuals who can't be ar**d to use the handbrake when stationary and think it's polite and safe to rest the poor, weary old foot on something conveniently placed. Presumably the clutch pedal is probably down too and first gear engaged ready for the off.
Maybe that's one of the reasons some people buy new rather than used....at least the thrust bearing isn't about to start squealing due to it having been engaged for half it's life if the car's been used for town use for much of the time.
OK...I realise this is all old hat and been gone over a millioin times. I also realise a fair percentage of contributors will be enraged and become irate at my having the audacity to criticize the practice. So I'll sign off now and would probably be best off not returning for a bit.
By The Way... I've never owned a car with an electronic handbrake but quite fancy the idea given that the Yeti handbrake is really quite stiff to pull right up and I've often wondered how convenient the other sort is. By contrast, the Hyundai i10 handrake is feather light and works really well and doesn't cause you to wish for anything else.
Edited by KB. on 10/01/2016 at 15:34
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A lot with the brakes on own auto's.
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A lot with the brakes on own auto's.
Well, as it happens mine is automatic too. But it doesn't stop me using the handbrake when I know I'm gonna be there for a while.
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Some of them will be like my A3 with "Hold Assist" which, when it locks the brakes on, the brake lights come on automatically.
Edited by RichT54 on 10/01/2016 at 16:04
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Mine also has Hold Assist...but, again, it doesn't stop me using the handbrake...primarily because HA only stays on on for a short time then disengages.
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Ironically EPB is the only reason we don't have an Avensis tourer on the drive.
After three and a half years with a company Avensis Tourer, I think I know why the EPB is (i) back to front and (ii) tucked away out of sight. Seemingly idiotic on both counts, but not without some measure of logic.
I can only guess that the activation mode is meant to reflect the operation of all the other switches a driver might encounter, where a press inevitably means "on". And I'd guess that its awkward, "unnatural" location is to prevent accidental operation in moments of idle fumbling or day dreaming when idle fingers tend to wander, e.g. in tailbacks and holdups. (In my experiences most drivers either pick their noses or fiddle with things to while away the moments of delay!) "Pull to release" is largely irrelevant, as the automatic release works well.
The traction control and fuel flap release switches are even lower down and difficult to reach, but we never operate these two during normal driving, either. And the bonnet release seems to have been deliberately camouflaged; unlike the other switches I've mentioned, this one really needs to be illuminated!
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