I could do with help and opinions on the following:
I was coming home on Christmas Eve in my Mazda 6 2009 which was purchased in July at a Mazda dealer with 1 year warranty. The Oil light flickered on and off about 10 minutes into my journey so I began to get concerned. Around 2 minutes later it came full on do I began to look for somewhere to pull over. I Watson the A1 in heavy traffic and moved over into the slow lane to find somewhere to stop. The oil light then went full on and I started to hear a rattling sound. I found a lay by and pulled into it. As I slowed down the engine cut out and I stopped the car. Then I called Mazda recovery and was recovers to my home just after Christmas I had the car taken taken to Mazda and they checked it over.
After review they explained an injector had leaked carbon into the sump which blocked the sump gauze(?) so no oil reached the engine. They said it is not a straightforward warranty claim. My argument is that I stopped as soon as possible safely.
The only other factor is that I had a service with Mazda 4 weeks ago. It was due a major but I did a minor due to being short on cash. The minor did include an oil change and oil filter and they did not saying would void my warranty. They also said it wouldn't have found this issue.
I am now waiting for the warranty company inspector to review the car. The cost of a partial engine would be £6700 at retail who his out of the question for me to cover!
Thoughts appreciated!
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Ouch , could be a tricky one, insurance normally covers instant mechanical failure.
When an oil light comes on its imperative to stop imidiatley ! thats why its red.
Stopping when safe to do so could be inetrpreted as 5 or 25 miles +
The oil warning light does not come on untill oil pressure is almost zero ( normally around 6psi where as normal pressure may be 50-60 psi so in those few minuets serious damage would be done.
Unfortunatley these engines are notorious for serious failures and are impossible to come by from scrap cars and most of the engines have blown up , normally cause by the injectors flooding the sump with diesel on its regen cycle and then the engine runs away burning the diesel mix in the sump untill a conrod snaps.
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I guess the argument will come down to stopping safely on an A road vs slamming my breaks on, parking on the verge and potentially causing an accident.
I did stop in a layby and didn't break down due to continued driving so that should help.
I could be taking them to court over this if necessary.
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"The only other factor is that I had a service with Mazda 4 weeks ago. It was due a major but I did a minor due to being short on cash. The minor did include an oil change and oil filter and they did not saying would void my warranty."
Did you get this in writing, not keeping to the manufacturers shedules normally gives than a get out of jail free card.
As regards your earlier comment about not stopping immediately due to the road how would you have felt if due to the fact you continued any oil you could have deposited on the road if the engine had thrown a rod could have caused a motorcyclist to skid and get seriously injured or worse.
The oil warning light means stop now not stop when its convenient.
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Appreciate that stopping was very important and knew there was a layby ahead so as soon as the light went full on I moved over to the slow lane and drove for maybe 1 minute before I stopped the car. Think that is totally reasonable. I did not however stop when the flickering occurred. But was unsure what that meant and waited to see if the light went on. The chances of an accident because of oil leak must be less than the chances of an accident because I stopped on an A road. Any how this is the sort of argument I wil be having I am sure.
I don't think there was much else I could do safely.
I am worried about the service issue. At the time they didn't mention my warranty. I would hope that it helps I had the oil service 4 weeks before this happened.
If I have to pay £6700 for the new partial engine I might as well scrap the car which was £11k when I bought it. I can't see what I really did wrong and acted reasonably so hopefully a fair amount of this will be covered, if not all of it. Fingers crossed and let the argument begin!
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Manufacturers fit oil pressure waring lights for a reason and it will tell you in the handbook what to do if it comes on. To be honest if you don't know what to do without reading the handbook I would be very worried about your knowledge af cars.
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I'm sympathetic. I know that an oil pressure warning light means stop immediately, but I am aware that a lot of people wouldn't understand the urgency. A safe approach would be to roll into neutral, and coast to the layby with the hazard lights on. But that's water under the bridge now.
I think the major service is going to be an issue. Even if the fault wouldn't have been discovered under the scheduled work, it gives them the opportunity to check the vehicle and thus puts the onus on them if a subsequent fault appears.
Are you telling the full story? Oil designated for diesel engines is designed to hold a hell of a lot of soot in suspension in order to avoid this sort of problem happening.
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I think there isnt anything you can do untill the warranty company have assesd the situation.
I think the fact that you only bought it recently may help you if it ends up as drama but hoepfully the insurance company will see sense. Fingers crossed.
Whilst this isnt directley related its still related to the Mazda 2.0ltr diesel engine and its faults, they are not quite the gem they appear !
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=77225
www.mazda-campaign.co.uk
contact@mazda-campaign.co.uk
in amoungst all the reading its appearing that Mazda exepct the oil changes to be double the recomended period and their get out clause is "harsh conditions" & they clarify that 12000 miles a year is harsh as its not enough miles !
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Doesn´t SOGA apply.
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How many miles has the car done and how many miles has it done since you bought it?
You should have told the garage that you stopped as soon as the red light came on. They do not like to hear too many details.
I agree with Collos, you paid £11000 for the car. They should fix the problem.
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I think the insurance company will say you are partially to blame for not pulling over as soon as the oil light flickered.
However, partially to blame should not mean forking out almost £7k for a 3 year old car still under warranty.
I think in your shoes I would be pushing hard for the claim to be met by the warranty. Also try contacting Mazda customer services if this is their used car "Zoom Zoom" warranty.
Before starting court proceedings (if it comes to that) contact one of the motoring magazines for help. What Car? often get good results for consumers.
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I think you would need to get clarification from Mazda on the exact cause.
The explanation you have been given by Mazda, that " ... an injector had leaked carbon into the sump which blocked the sump gauze(?) so no oil reached the engine." sounds at best garbled, and at worst utter bullmud.
It takes a LOT of debris to block a sump pick-up strainer. If an oil & filter change was done properly at your last service 4 weeks ago (i.e. not by sucking the old oil out of the dipstick tube), then it would be highly unlikely there would be anything like enough deposits to block the sump strainer.
Furthermore, "carbon" from the injector would be expelled out of the exhaust valve, it would not bypass the piston rings and find its way into the sump -- unless one or more rings had broken and damaged the piston & cylinder bore, in which case it's straightforward engine failure and the warranty should pay up.
Good luck.
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Isn't there a known fault with the Ford /PSV 1.6 tdci whereby the injector seal fails thus causing a bleed of diesel and carbonisation which finds its way into the turbo oil feed with subsequent catastrophic failure?
To me, the explanation that you have been given is in itself an acceptance of serious engine failure and whether or not you were able to switch off immediately or a very short time afterwards is irrelevant. Pity that these warning lights have replaced the oil pressure gauge which would probably have saved the engine in this case, with much more information and advance warning.
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The car has 42k on it and was 3 years old in September, only just come out of manufacturers 3 year warranty. It is a 2.2 Sport model with a DPF fitted.
The inspector will likely be out in the new year to review. It's an interesting point about the dealer not Finding the blockage in the service. They suggested they don't check that. I Will try and get a more solid explanation next week. It was definitely explained as carbon blocking the movement of oil into the engine from the sump. I thought it would be the oil pump initially but this is their explanation. The garage already admitted this was the fault. I bought it from RPG in Rochdale but the car is with Norton Way Mazda in Letchworth. This probably doesn't help.
I have borrowed a car that I can keep for a few weeks if necessary do can hold out on this until I get some real help with the repair.
Thanks for advice. I'll try and post the results of this FYI.
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Watched a punter test drive, and presumably buy (hand shakes and cheque/bank draft handed over) a 3 year year old Mazda 2.0TD, probably just out of warranty in an out of town retail park 2 weeks ago. Was sorely tempted to roll down my window to shout 'STOP! You'll be soooooo sorry.......search Honest John on Mazda 6 diesels before you buy!'
It's a shame really as I owned a Mazda 323TD (with no DPF!!) from new for 8 years that was boringly reliable and I traded it in at 130k for a new Toyota.
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Sorry CraigPD130
Injector seals leaking causing floating carbon in modern diesels is a real issue and blocks the strainer really quickly !
1.6TDCi PSA is a real classic of this. The cobustion gases leak pass the injector seal into the oil as the injectors are fitted inside the head. The carbon builds up in the oil ways really quickly.
Mazda are most likley correct or the cars lacked oil changes and been clocked.
Strange thing though, when the strainers become blocked they squeal really loudley especially when cold, like water going down a bath plug hole when its 99% blocked with hair. I have seen plenty of blocked strainers and on Mazdas in particular and they normally squeal or shriek when cold.
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@ Injection Doc - I stand corrected!
If that is the case though, surely it's straightforward engine failure and the warranty should pay up? The injector seals aren't a service item, so if they fail it should be covered ....
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The Warranty companies first comment is to refuse my claim based on the fact I did not have a full service, instead only the oil and filter change. I just had an answer machine message from the Garage to confirm this so haven't spoken to them yet.
I checked the service record and the major service items that were not carried out were Air filter, Fuel filter and and injector lean calibration.
On the phone previously the garage said that none of these would have found the issue so i will call them on Thursday and ask them to put this is writing.
I am not sure what an Injector lean calibration? Any ideas if this was carried out could the problem be avoided? I damn hope not.
If the warranty company refuse on this technicallity I will have to get in touch with a Solicitor. Hope it doesn't come to that.
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Unfortunatley warranty companies will use any excuse to wiggle out of a claim ! especially a big one !
The injectior lean calibration will most likley be the DPf reset.
this may help explain more www.cdn.dk/mazda6/tips.htm
Whilst the issue isnt really relevant to the service schedule the warranty company use this as their get out of jail card and they have a lot of sucess at it as well as the manufactures becuse so many people spend 10-20K on a car and cut back on the service schedules or stretch them.
I would almost be inclined to go and drive it through a flooded road & claim for accidental damage to the engine when its sucked up water !
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I will have to get the dealership to give me a letter to say the problem would not have been addressed by the major service so irrelevant. I expect they will do this or I will be focussing on why nobody told me selecting the oil service would effect my warranty. It will take the pressure off them and the guy already pretty much apologised for not telling me about this point at the time.
At least I had the oil service on the 31/11. This should help a lot!
Happy new year by the way, hope it starts a lot better than mine!
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Sorry to hear about your problems but if you read your handbook/service book it will clearly state that not having the car serviced to the manufacturers schedule will mean the end of the warranty.
Same for all manufacturers.
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Hi,
Sorry to hear of your problems. This does beg the question that when you go to next buy a new car - bet your life it won't be a Mazda. I too had a similar issue with a 3&1/2 yr old Toyota which had a head gasket failure. Toyota flatly refused to help even though it was a known and well documented issue. The wriggled out of liability by saying it was not seviced by a Toyota distributor - even though it was serviced at the correct service intervals using genuine Toyota parts and the garage being VAT registered. Luckily I had a secondhand warranty with the car so they stumped up the max 1K and I had to pay £240.
Safe to say that when it comes to a new car It certainly won't be a Toyota and judging by the tales of woe with Mazda's it won't be one of those either!!! 20 years ago Japanese manufactured cars were the best money could buy - now, I don't think so.
Looking at the new Kia range, I like the quality and that seveen year warranty. I think that could be next on the family fleet of cars........
Robin the Technician - I fix, therefore I am
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Had confirmation today that Mazda UK will contribute 85% of the retail price of replacing the engine. I have agreed to contribute £1000 to the total cost. They originally offered 80%. I think this is the best I could do given the circumstances and it is Mazda UK paying not the warranty company.
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Good result, and well done Mazda for behaving honourably.
Some would be complaining about having to make any contribution, but under the circumstances i think its fair.
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That's good news and honourable from Mazda, but I would continue to chase the warranty company for your £1,000 'contribution' as the failure was NOT down to your usage.
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Had confirmation today that Mazda UK will contribute 85% of the retail price of replacing the engine. I have agreed to contribute £1000 to the total cost. They originally offered 80%. I think this is the best I could do given the circumstances and it is Mazda UK paying not the warranty company.
HI,
Can you give me some more details as to how you managed to get Mazda to admit a failure on their engine and if possible who you spoke to and contact detaisl for them. I want to have all the evidence handy when I make my inital contact with them to prevent and long winded exhausting batle.
We have a virtually identical situation to you only this Christams and looking at what to do to get it sorted.
Thanks
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Well done Mazda, I had an engine failure on an older style 626, they swapped the engine no charge. That was due to oil pump failure.
"Injector lean" is most probably Injector Learn, with all modern common rail engines plugging into the computer to have "learn" carried out on injectors, pump and lots of other bits is very important, this will be carried out at a major service.
Independants can be very good, but they do not often have anything to match the dealers computer system and usually cannot do a full learn.
Modern engines can be very fussy regarding oil, fuel and computer updates.
I really think you have done very well, I don't think you would have won a very expensive court case, but then I am not a judge :-)
Cygnet
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Me too - engine failure on a CX7 - similar 2.2d engine. Out of warranty but full service history. Am struggling to get Mazda and the dealer to help out
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Yes, Mazda are washing their hands of our Mazda 6 as well. I think it's disgusting you can spend so much on a car, that it's been serviced at every interval.
Less than 50k miles.
Will never ever buy a Mazda again and will be steering all friends and family away from them in future too.
Does anyone know what I can do with a Mazda 6 sport with a broken engine and no Mazda support? Or haw to make Mazda help in some way?
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I've a mazda 6 2010 without an engine too. I had the car 7 weeks when The oil light flickered on and off and after 3 miles I pulled over to dip the car for oil. It was full so I rang my mechanic who collected the car. He rang me an hour later to tell me there was serious engine damage. He dropped the sump to find the oil strainer blocked with carbon sludge and steel filings. The filings are from some major bearings somewhere in the engine.
So what's the cause and who's fault is it?
Either the injectors are leaking fuel into the engine, which in turn is mixing with the oil and changing the properties of the oil, it normally acts as a lubricant but also cools the engine. Now here is where I post an opinion of a former mazda technician who worked on many mazdas with this blocked sump strainer problem. Apparently when you get your car serviced with mazda they are told drop the sump and check the strainer as part of the service, this alone tells me that mazda know that there is a problem with there diesels.
Every time the DPF filter regenerates it releases some diesel into the engine which again changes the oil and affects its properties, which means it can't keep the metal parts of the engine cool enough, so what happens with the heat and the friction is that the softest part of the engine gives way. This is usually the crank bearings, which is the metal filings that mix with the oil and finish up in the sump oil strainer. This in turn prevents the oil pump from picking up any oil which is a double whammy for the lubrication of the engine. This can cause failure of the engine and sometimes the turbo can also be seriously damaged.
I hope someone out there will take mazda to court over this as for me I don't have the cash to risk on a big court case. Apparently this is not just a maxes problem plenty of Audi and Toyota landcrusers out there with similar problems too.
I hope this helps explain the problem a bit more.
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I find myself in a similar situation with my Mazda 6 2.2 D 163hp, 62,500 miles, full Mazda service history. The local Mazda dealer have diagnosed a failed injector resulting in a blocked oil strainer. They say carbon only in the strainer, no metal fragments, so that's good.
Now they tell me that the strainer cannot be replaced on its own, and I need a lower panel for the engine, costing around £680 plus six hours labour at £100 p/h to fit. Plus they sy they did two hours diagnostic work to confirm the strianer was blocked.Total costs at the moment is £2,100, plus VAT.
I am concerned that they say the strainer cannot be replaced. Any comments, anyone?
Many thanks!
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Though My replies old.... This is complete t***.. I have seen the strainer removed and replaced, 2 minute job once the sumps off.
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Though My replies old.... This is complete t***.. I have seen the strainer removed and replaced, 2 minute job once the sumps off.
OK, please advise: does the strainer "simply" prise off ? .... or is there a hidden retaining bolt or subtle unscrewing required ?
I have the sump off but I can't see quite the strainer is removed. I'm sure it is easy and quick "when you know how" !!!
Edited by HonestPaolo on 03/10/2017 at 21:35
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