Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 18:43
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Time to changes Mrs Gs car, a Mitsubishi Grandis.

Eldest daughter has moved on from home, next eldest will be 17 this year and becoming more and more independant, younger two still need a lot of transportng around but a big petrol 7 seater isn't' what we need anymore.

Budget around 14K tops, like in 2007 hope to buy a 1 or 2 year old direct from manufacturers approved/used schemes.

Mrs G likes the look of the QashQai and that genre of car, but also would not rule out a more conventional car as opposed to soft roader/cross over if the right car comes along.

Priorities:

Must seat 5 in comfort, (many 5 seaters don't really seat more than 4).
Must be practical enough and big enough boot to cope with weekend away for 5

Must have plenty of "get up and go", but be able to give us at least mid 30s MPG
Must be suited to daily multiple short journeys, many less than 2 miles

Must have a sense of style and quality especially interior with good smattering of tech (Mrs Gs view is that she is ... ahemm *ifty years old, and has worked hard all her life and now wants a bit of luxury.)

Must be comfortably under 15ft long (rules out the likes of Mazda 6 and similar size hatches)

An additional priority for me is refinement (road / tyres noise, and suspension set up). If I can fauly the Grandis on anything (for its genre) it would be that, and something I'd like to improve on changing the car

Due to driving pattern (less than 10K per year and lots of short journeys, many under 2 miles long) we have decided to stick to petrols.

First car to look at was a Honda Civic 5 door. Ticked every box imaginable until I drove it. At 60mph the background noise from tyre roar and road noise felt worse than the Grandis, so I measured it and found it was 70db (measured on a SPL meter I have). whilst the Mitsubishi I had previously measured using same tool as 68dB. Also every time you went over a pot hole, the suspension clunked quite loudly. In terms of refinement I was not impressed. Mrs G liked it though :-).

Didn't like the patronising pushy sales guy either.

Next we went to a lovely small garage north of Hemel, although it is unlikley we will buy from them (read on), their stock was great, all good quality cars, their attitude nigh on perfect (left you alone when you wanted, and had a knack of being around and helpful when you needed it). We went there because is about 30mins from me, and had on one site the following - all of which I wanted Mrs G to see.

Standard Mk 5 1. 6 Golf (a benchmark to compare with the following)
A3 2.0TFsi 5 door
Skoda Octavia VRS 2.0 TFsi
Audi A4
Volvo V50 estate

We didn't test drive, I just wanted Mrs G to spend time with each to get a feel for her reaction to different types of cars, of course in this case all based upon same or similar mechanicals too. One thing came in to focus, she doesn't want an Estate Car, feeling it would be too like the Grandis and its time to move on to something else.

Conclusion, the A4 would be interesting, in the right trim and engine combination, the A3 (with S-Line pack) was lovely but too small for 5 plus luggage, whilst the Skoda Octavia though the sensible choice, lack internally a sense of quality the others had. The Golfs like the A3 would be too small.

There was a gorgeous loaded Golf mk5 VR32 there, leather, sunroof, satnav, the works but Golf boot was too small for us, the insurance too high, and the economy not good enough, but it was very very attractive!

We left thinking of going back soon to look more at A4s,

Then we went by appointment to a Peugeot garage to look at a 3008, 1.6 THP, Exclusive. This was my arrangement...

why the Pug?

Saw one in a showroom 1 year back and thought the interior was gorgeous
Seemed to meet our needs in terms of space and size though even 1 year ago we were unsure if we still needed 7 seats, and we stayed with the Grandis

The 2008 has been just out long enough that there is some (not many) in stock in our budget, even with the highly rated 1.6 THP engine (apparently same as BMW put in the MIni Cooper?)

Wasn't sure if Mrs G would like it and if, when driven, it would live up to my expectations.

Helpful Salesman, just right balance of sales patter and leaving us to think and talk between us. Let us test drive on our own (honda take note).

First thing to note was the refinement, very smooth, very quiet, very good supression of road noise / tyre roar. Same test as the Civic measured between 60 and 62dB, thats a HUGE difference. If you know about sound you will know that halving the power output say of an amplifier produces a 3dB drop, so an 8 - 10 dB drop is massive.

I didn't throw it in to any corners, but it never fellt "roly"

The acceleration was way beyond expectation given the size of car, and in terms of "get up and go", points scored!

MPG on our test drive (about 40 mins ,mixed roads, mixed traffic) was mid 30s - I think 36..

Gear change was nice, driving position good.

The practicality was flawless, loved the boot design, drop down loading bay (always been a favourite of mine since I had a Fiat Tempra SW and then a Marea Weekend in the 1990s.) A little lever near the tailgate drops the seats down without you reaching in. A space under the boot floor can absorb shoes, wellies, tennis rackets etc. The one we looked at had the glass panoramic roof which made it feel light and airy. And everything about it was perfect...EXCEPT...

3/4s way around the test drive I planned, Mrs G told me she hated the colour and could not have it (Dark metallic red). I was rather shell shocked since in the whole of UK there seem to be about 6 of these cars in used stock list, all rest are either diesel or 120bhp 1.6s and lower spec, and given its rarity and the fact it was in stock, I would not walk away from a car based upon colour.

The dealer offered us immediately £1000 off to see if it would change her mind, but it made no difference

So now, I am on the hunt for one from another dealer

Why not Hyundai Ix35? No used stock in our budget yet would need to wait at least another year.

Why not the Yeti? Same... no used stock in our budget yet except 1 entry level 1.2 on the Skoda website, also we don't have a dealer nearby for servicing

I have a thought in the back of my mind to maybe look at a Rav4, personally I do not like the QashQai.

But for the moment ... it is looking like a Pug 3008 from here, once I find the right one.

The Grandis is on EBAY, item number 150559362042, going live at 8.30pm this evening. If any HJ forum members are interested in it, just drop me a line and let me know (or phone me - number is on the listing)

GUY


Golf VR32

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 21:38
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - unthrottled
Nice plug!

When comparing cars on road noise and ride quality, be sure to note wheel size and tyre aspect ratio. The current trend is towards large wide wheels with low profile tyres. The sporty look and modest additional grip come at a terrible price of a hard, unforgiving ride-especially on our pot hole filled roads. Wide tyres tend to suffer early shoulder wear and are more expensive to replace. The civic may have a more a pliant ride on more appropriate rubber.
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Sun 6 Feb 2011 23:04
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - Janpan
Hi there. I am in similar position to you, car hunting taking into account changing family needs. Have had Peugeot 407 SW for three years and v v happy with it. V relaxing drive, quiet, not tiring on longjourneys. Only prob is poor leg room in the rear when six foot husband drives and six foot + son ( of which we have two) are seated behind. Fancy a change. BUT shocked at uncomfortable overly firm sport seats and noisy wide profile tyres spoiling the ride of the higher spec cars we're looking at, skoda superb and Mazda 6. Back to French comfort of Peugeot there are great deals on six month old 407s as they are being replaced. 12500 for 2.0 140 bhp diesel only six mths old, 10000 miles panoramic roof and parking sensors. I know you don't want such a long car but think you might find it a comfy ride and it's v nippy and easy to park with sensors. If all the family legs are measuring up. Here's to a return to sixteen inch wheels instead of eighteen inch low profile wheels. And comfortable seats with some give in them. Not everyone is a wannabee racing driver and some people like comfort and quiet. Even on the Autobahn last summer we could still chat quietly while driving at 90-100 mph in fully loaded car. Good luck finding your 3008.
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Mon 7 Feb 2011 09:42
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - Rich407SW

Just following on from what Janpan was saying, I recently bought a pre-registered 407 SW SR with 30 miles on the clock - there was nearly £7,000 off the list price!

I wasn't really looking to change my car immediately and was considering the usual Mondeo / Insignia line-up. However the price was great and the equipment levels fantastic - Sat-Nav, Bluetooth - basically, everything you could want. Mine has the 110bhp 1.6 HDi diesel and it pulls like a train. It's not very quick off the line but pulls very strongly in 3rd / 4th / 5th.

As Janpan said, they're being replaced which is probably why I got such a good deal. There are hundreds of them over the internet, most pre-registered 60-plate cars in SR-spec' with fantastic savings.

It might not be the type of car you're after, but definitely worth consideration / a look.

Just as a footnote - the quality of the cabin plastics has definitely improved since the facelift around 12 / 18 months ago. I can't fault mine.

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 10:03
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Thanks for the inputs...

Re the Civic - according to HJs review, the best ride comes from 17inch wheels, thats what we tested on.... the ride "quality" wasn't the issue, it was just tyre/road noise even at moderate speeds and suspension clunks which were noisy even if the physical "jolt" was nicely suppressed. It just felt that money hadn't been spent there compared with the Peugeot.

The 3008 won us over for other reasons too, the practicality of the loading area, the panoramic glass roof. The acceleration was better too. One test I did was entering on to the A1 at a junction where the A1 is on an upwards incline, and trying to accelerate quickly in to the outside lane. Don't bother, the Civic hasn't got the grunt for that,

Only surprise on the 3008 was no USB or SD card slot to playback your MP3 collection or IPOD dock, apparently later models have it, but the 3008 is hardly an old model, these are '10 plates we are looking at.

Re the 407SW, I had considered looking for one since as you say, probably get a ridiculously high spec one in budget or comfortably below, I showed one on a forecourt to Mrs G who wasn't impressed, and it is too big.... the 3008 is about 14ft 4, the 407SW is 15ft 7, in fact it is the same size as the Grandis (within 2millimetres) yet does not offer us a useful increase in interior space over the 3008, or even 7 seats such as the Grandis...such are the advances in design these days

Guy

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 17:46
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

interesting and a bit disappointed to find out today that on the Peugeot 3008, their much praised "Grip Control System" with modes for Snow, Mud, Wet Grass", is only available on the Diesels? Can't imagine why.

Having got stuck in the snow with the Grandis both this year and last, its a feature I was looking forward too.

I don't know if HJ tested this particular feature, but heres a reviewer that did and it certainly seemed to work.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/living-with-it/Peugeot-3008/?page=2&updateid=3406

This feature was one of the reasons I picked to look at a 3008, it won't stop us buying one cos so much else about the car also ticked boxes.

Shame though..

Got someone coming to view the Grandis tomorrow.

GUY


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Mon 7 Feb 2011 19:25
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - unthrottled

17" is really very large on a small hatchback. My car off similar size and weight sits on 13" wheels. Michelin tyres are £50 a quarter, and last over 30,000 miles. As an engineer, the trend for locomotive sized wheels on small cars is an anathema to me. Then I realised that it is very easy for salesman to pitch a 'sporty' 17" as a free upgrade over a 'boring' 13" to a scientifically illiterate public. The same goes for 'alloy' vs 'steel'. Steel is of course an alloy, and a very good one.

For low road noise and comfort pitch for the smallest wheel and largest tyre aspect ratio you can. You'll get slightly better economy too.

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 19:41
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

I think you are right, but I am talking about test driving a car off a main dealers forecourt as put up by that dealer, its down to them to show the car in the most positive light they can if they want to sell it. I am not going to say to a Honda Sales Manager "excuse can I ask you to whip those wheels off and put some 13 inch ones on before I test drive?"

So although you are for sure on to something, it is part of how I judge the car, i.e. how presented to me as per the manufacturers interpretation, not how it might be if I spend some time fettling it in to something a little different

I know French cars have traditionally gone for a softer ride, but that was not the reason (pleasant though that was) that we were interested enough in the 3008 to arrange a test drive.

Lets also think about this, after two winters of hard snow and ice, our roads here are SO badly potholed I do not ever see the council catching up with proper repairs, they pat a bit of tarmac in to the holes with a shovel, and first sign of water and frost again and it all breaks up. You can see the same all around this area. The roads being what they are mean that in order to be livable with, a more compliant suspension is definately a good starting point.

Then again thinking back to the Civic, what really let it down was the ambient tyre roar / road noise even at moderate speeds, not ride quality. Again I am sure you are right, wheel and tyre combination had a lot to do with that.

GUY

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 19:58
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - unthrottled

I should point out that have no vested interest in your choice of car! I have no real affection for the civic-and you won't find 13" on anything nowadays. My other gripe with the civic (and a lot of modern cars) is rear view visibility. Thick rear pillars, combined with high waistlines can make reversing difficult, and give the cabin an austere atmosphere. I don't want my car to look like a pill box! Thankfully the 'hidden' mechanicals of modern cars are far better than their predecessors. You're taking a sensible approach to car buying. Ultimately, just pick the one that makes you feel most at home.

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 22:17
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - Lygonos

Try a CRV.

Seriously - much more comfortable drive than a RAV4 and plenty space for everything (except 3 kids' seats across the back - our only reason for getting rid).

All Civics are noisy on the motorway - my old W-plate VTI on 195/55x15 was very loud probably due to rear double wishbone suspension - current ones have cheaper suspension and bigger wheels still.

Our CRV II was on 215/65x16s and with Michelin Latitudes it handled very nicely in dry/wet/snow (£75 a corner during a Costco 4 for 3 deal).

Avoid 18" wheels on the CRV3 - fi you want a sporty car, buy a sporty car...

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 23:08
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - Avant

It sounds as if the 3008 is just what you and SWMBO need. Look on www.peugeot.co uk, click on showroom and then on used cars and vans. Put the details in - I've just done so out of interest - and there seem to be plenty of 3008s with the THP 150 bhp engine. One of the first I saw was a silver one in Banbury for £14k.

If you go off the 3008 you could look at the Ford C-Max, Citroen Picasso or Skoda Octavia or Superb with Elegance trim (smaller wheels so softer and more refined than the Octavia vRS) and the 1.8 TSI engine.

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Tue 8 Feb 2011 17:37
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

C-Max, Picasso, don't appeal, Mrs G doesn't want another MPV, Octavia does to some extent but seem comments above, the interior definately feels cheap in comparison even with leather/VRS trim, also Mrs G found the driving position a little "off". Superb, last type ... no... just a ugly Passat, new type, lovely car but too big, want to keep well under 15ft

CRV, she loves the CRVs and if we might yet look at one..

re 3008s, yes you are right, there are a few, but we would want the Exclusive version with glass roof and there are a few (though not many) of those, I am in touch with one dealer about 90 mins away who has one.

re "sporty", I never said we want a sports car, just something with enough get up and go that when you want to get a move on you can, the Civic could accelrate reasonably on an incline from 50 mpg upwards, the 3008 perforned spot on in that respect, and has enough to performance to satisfy our needs.

Grandis still for sale ;-)

GUY

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Tue 8 Feb 2011 19:09
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - piggy

<< ... no... just a ugly Passat, >>>

You mean there`s another kind?

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Fri 11 Feb 2011 16:48
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Grandis sold on EBAY for £6K which I am very happy with, I might have got a little more had I hung on, I got two offers for £6K yesterday, but knowing the part ex offers, I am happy with that.

Peugeot 3008 ordered, 1.6 THP Exclusive, 7K miles on it, '10 reg, for £14495, got Peugeots Bluetooth and USB kit included in the deal, it is fitted as standard on the 2011 model but wasn't last year.

So far, happy bunny, will let you know how the Pug is after getting delivery

Guy

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Sat 12 Feb 2011 18:55
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - bonzo dog

Mondeo Estate

Bags of room; cheap (for the size / spec); & very reliable

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Sun 13 Feb 2011 02:31
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - fredthefifth

Fascinating!

Looking to replace my SAAB 9-5 Estate with something cheaper to run, have similar requirements to guycamps, though daughters not son's and not the height problem. Been looking at Insignia and Mondeo hatches because easy to get and could compromise on the requirement for an Estate. The need to get three across the back is rare these days but following my A6 thread, that has been ruled out (would have had to be older too). Budget is similar, though dependent on whether I shift the SAAB privately.

Went to look at a 10 plate 407SW SR Friday. Was honestly expecting to come away unimpressed, but the opposite is the case. I know it is a bit dated but still looks nice IMHO, always thought so, the drive was good, 6 speed box, 2 litre 140 HDi, and the spec was excellent, Sat Nav, MP3, climate, fuel computer. Middle seat will be ok for the amount it get used these days. Also won't stretch the budget as much as the others. Good price too from dealerships, maybe because they are unloading ready for the 408 or is it 508 (sorry!)

Reset the mpg and went on a mixed run of 15 miles and averaged 56 mpg. Now after my SAAB that is heaven!!

Very very tempted.

FTF

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Mon 14 Feb 2011 17:23
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Mondeo Estate

Bags of room; cheap (for the size / spec); & very reliable

Agreed as an analysis of the Mondeo.... but read my posting please:

Want something comfortable under 15ft.... and Mrs G does not want an Estate car, eschewing Merc C Class, Volvo V50, Peugeot 407 and every estate car she saw, feeling she wants to get away from that form factor which was very close to the Grandis (the Grandis being longer and lower than Galaxy/Alhambra style of MPV, and more estate car like in its appearance).

Interestingly Mondeo estate is 4804 mm long (15ft 9) Grandis is 4765 long (15ft 7), so in fact the idea of chosing a Mondeo which is longer as trade down to something smaller following the Grandis doesn't work at all. Why change to something bigger that doesn't offer the flexibility of the Grandis (7 seater ) when the imperative is to find something smaller, quicker, more economical but still big enough for 5 in comfort with luggage for 5.

Have to say re the Pug 3008 design.., job done! to quote HJs review:

"I think Peugeot’s has cracked the very difficult task of bridging the gap between SUVs like the Nissan Qashqai and MPVs like the Renault Scenic and created a new category of family car that could well be what most families really want. "

Couldn't have said it better myself.... hope the ownership experience lives up to the Car of the Year tag from What Car mag.


Edited by guygamps on 14/02/2011 at 17:26

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Mon 14 Feb 2011 21:31
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - bonzo dog

Whoops!

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Tue 15 Feb 2011 16:22
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Whoops!

:-)

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Tue 15 Feb 2011 16:38
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - ablandy

Although you seem to have got the car sorted, I just wanted to point out something about Mrs G rejecting the car on colour. You could have got the car vinyl wrapped. Its quite good nowadays and you could have had any colour you want (and it protects tthe car paint work...)

When you have finished with the wrap, you can get it removed. I think I read somewhere that Beckham had a car done matt black and Rooney changed a discovery from silver to white.

And the glass roof is great, have got one on my 5008. Makes it very airy and the kids love it, although mine are younger than yours!

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Tue 1 Mar 2011 21:43
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - guygamps

Had the Pug 3008 1.6 THP for 2 weeks now, me and Mrs G loving it.

Its not a small car at all, yet "goes" really well, noticed the 1.6THP is in the new sports version of the Citroen DS3 as well as Mini Cooper. It certainly feels spritely

Love the comfort and refinement., and all the observations above. Great Car!

The Sales Manager and Robins and Day in Coventry (90 miles away) won the deal due to his wonderfully professional attitude. I wrote to his boss to thank him and to be honest just thought I'd copy/paste it here, so rare is it to find such a positive experience in car retail.

"At all times Lee was professional, pre sales answering questions that I had efficiently whilst also putting together exactly the kind of package I was after, leaving me free to select from a partex deal of a cash purchase without any pressure either way, whilst also being competitive and meeting my objectives with either. You should know that I was not chasing the cheapest deal, just a deal that felt right and fair for a car of the right spec, and in every sense Lee delivered just that.

Most importantly, on the day we collected the car, Lee gave us time to inspect the vehicle, to take a short drive, and to have some immediate questions answered, at no time did we feel rushed despite the showroom being very busy. I can’t tell you how important that was. Not being local, and having driven quite a distance, and since we were parting with nearly £15K cash, I would have felt very alienated had we been rushed, yet we were made to feel welcome in circumstances where we could all too have easily been rushed in and rushed out, “take the money and thanks”, instead… we were given all the time we felt we needed before leaving the forecourt in our car"

Re the car, only surprise are lack of electrically folding door mirrors (the car feels quite wide)

Guy

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Tue 1 Mar 2011 23:20
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - SteveLee

Freelander IIs are supposed to finally be fairly reliable. They have tonnes of kit and are comfy. But I would look out for a fully loaded CRV instead as mentioned earlier.

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Tue 1 Mar 2011 23:26
Peugeot? Skoda? and others - Search for a car - SteveLee
PS With your budget you could buy a brand new top-of-the-range Hyundai ix20 which has plenty of kit. Every bit as good as the CashCow but at a reduced cost - my money would be in the Hyundais over modern Nissans for reliability too.
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