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I've been wondering for a while whether zebra crossings in private car parks (eg at Supermarkets) have the same legal standing as those on the public roads? The reason for asking is that no-one ever seems to take any notice of these - I've come close to being knocked down a number of times, usually by drivers accelerating towards me while trying to cross... I actually recall being told that pedestrians actually have ultimate right of way in carparks - is this true as well?
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ah ! I know that feeling well Steve. There are 'zebra crossings' outside both the main entrances of both the Tesco's and Sainsbury's that we use regularly, and they may as well not be there. In both cases, they serve only as an obstruction between drivers and the cashcard machines that are usually the only reason for their visit
It would be interesting to know about the legal position, but I suspect the answer is no. Any driver prosecuted under the ZC regulations would point out the absence of proper belisha beacons or zig-zag markings or whatever, but (and there are many more knowleadgable than me) I believe the 1992 Road Traffic Act extended the sense of a 'public road' to 'a public place', so you don't have to be on a road to get knicked for dangerous/careless/reckless driving
I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
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Is the car park in question adopted public highway or not? In most cases they are not, so any white lines, in whatever form, are advisory only and have no legal standing.
My local Tesco is a case in point. The public road ends at the mini roundabout about two cars length from the barriers, so those two car lenghts plus the entire car park are not public highway and you are on your own if you bump or get bumped. Any markings inside that area are advisory only, you are not obliged to take any notice of them.
So, if the neanderthal with the tattoos and the ear-rings in the battered Orion, wants to park on the white lines to get closer to the cash point, there is nothing you can do about it without risking personal injury.
If anyone knows different, I would be interested to hear of it.
Rgds.
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I understand that as it is open to the public it is subject to the laws of the road. I can't prove that though. BTW a friend of mine had a bump in a supermarket car park when someone ran into him. The ins co. said it was his fault as he was travelling in the opposite direction to the arrows painted in the road.
The "best" ones are where the pavements are made from brick sets and extend across the carpark lanes. A town planner friend pointed out that these qualify as pavements and motorists should give way. Pah never happens!
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Thanks for the reply Graham.
Can anyone offer positive confirmation on the "public place" issue please ?
Thank you, Pete.
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The Road Traffic Act covers both the designated public highway and any road to which the public has access. Therefore if you were to ignore a marked crossing in a car park and hit a pedestrian you would be subject to the same liabilities as if on the road. The same would apply if you ignored give way lines or any stop lights erected by the owner of the car park and your actions resulted in an accident.
What would not apply are the laws relating to technical offences not involving an accident, for instance parking on a pedestrian crossing. That would be a civil matter between you and the owner of the property, although ignoring a speed restriction or a no entry sign could result in a prosecution for dangerous or careless driving.
I am almost certain the above is correct, unless one of the legal profession knows otherwise. Come in, Pug.
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I thought zebra crossings were the result of an enterprising New Forest pony jumping the hedge at Longleat safari park! :)
Seriously, the French are trying an experiment in a number of small towns which are on busy through routes - most seem to be...
The idea is to remove the traditional distinction between road and sidewalk so that the motorist feels less in command over the route, and the traffic becomes less of a barrier to folk walking around the town. The effect desired by the planners is that it feels much like driving across the approach to a supermarket. Driving through one feels a much decreased sense that the route belongs to the car, and the pedestrians are correspondingly empowered.
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So it's not just us who elect the terminally insane into positions of power, then.
Does lead to agreat career move for any enterprising youngster though - go to France and become an undertaker.
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To have the same legal standing as those on a public road then the crossing having to comply with signing i.e. markings, studs and warning beacons. Those I have seen in SM parks are just white bars across the road with nothing else. IMHO if they were so marked on a road then not legal.
As to whether a supermarket is a road there is a plethora of case law for and against which probably means a decision from those on the bench. I note that careless driving etc has been extended to road or public place but have yet to find the elusive definition under the RTA of 'public place'.
DVD
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