Happy new year everyone,
It's coming round to time to replace my trusty (really!) citroen C5 and I've narrowed down my shortlist to 3 cars which might not on the face of it seem like obvious competitors with each other. So in time-honoured fashion I'm interested in the views of you BRers that might influence my choice a little.
Criteria at the outset were: a wish to downsize a little if possible (the C5 can be a bit too barge-like at times), but still have at least 4 doors and adequate boot space; comfort and refinement to rival the C5; decent performance and economy; good toy count (incuding proper mp3 connectivity if possible); low mileage 2nd hand (e.g. ex-demo). To pick up on some recent themes, the ability to survive a triffid attack or negotiate a slalom course not so critical. Budget around 16k though would be nice to spend a bit less if possible.
Number one choice is the Golf Mk 6 SE (Diesel or possibly the 1.4 TSI even). Had a test drive in the diesel and did think it was very nice indeed. Only downsides are that it's right at the top of my budget, and though the spec's OK, I might have to sacrifice one or two creature comforts. I also saw HJ's car-by-car breakdown was pretty lukewarm. And the golf, it's just so... ubiquitous!
Number two is a good spec Peugout 308 HDI SE. Probably not as classy as the golf in a lot of ways, though had a poverty spec one for hire a while ago and was surprised how good it was. It'd be cheaper and I see HJ rates them very highly too and that counts for something in my book.
Then I had an idea completely from left field, and wondered about the Seat Exeo. The idea of a refettled Audi with a new VAG engine seems very tempting. Haven't gone to see one yet and don't know how it'll compare with the Golf. It's a tad bigger than I'd like and lack of a hatchback isn't totally ideal. But searching on Autotrader suggests it's a serious bargain - cheaper than the golf - so I'm intrigued.
SWMBO reckons I'll end up with the golf. I don't know, I'm going to go out to look for the Seat tomorrow and see what I think of it. But I welcome anybody else's opinions...
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Add the Skoda Octavia to your list - the Golf VI is new and at the moment you won't save much compared with a new one. The choice of mechanicals is similar to the Golf and you can have hatch or estate.
You can have a new Octavia within your budget, or a nearly-new upmarket version.
Edited by Avant on 01/01/2010 at 15:16
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I guess the choice is also heavily influenced by the respective dealers' locations, and how approachable and helpful they are. VW don't generally get good marks for the latter on this forum!
I'm very sceptical of Peugeot's reliability and running costs personally, and think their cars are generally overpriced.
Seat - do you really want an old-shape A4 in drag?!
Golf for me, or possibly Octavia, like Avant affirms (he's had both!).
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I know what you mean about VW dealers, and my first expedition to enquire about the Golf confirmed my worst fears (a major dealership in Surrey who shall obviously remain nameless). He had a 2nd hand example of the model I MIGHT have been interested in, while I stressed to the salesman that I was just narrowing down my options and didn't intend to buy YET. However after a cursrory 5 minute test drive during which he dissed every other car under the sun, he wouldn't stop banging on about getting me to buy the car TODAY. His arrogance was appalling. Do they really think semi-intellligent members of the public are impressed by this kind of approach? I vowed there and then to never darken their door again. By contrast, a couple of days later I visited Windrush in Slough on a Sunday on an identical mission, was thrown the keys to one of their used cars (after I'd told him I probably wouldn't buy that one), the salesman was helpful but not pushy in the least. Just perfect. So I know there are good ones out there.
As for the Seat being an old-shape A4 in drag, I don't necessarily see what's wrong with that, since it was originally a premium product that, if you looked for it 2nd hand, would still command a very high price. And to my mind they've modernised the worst aspect of it, the grumbly old PD engines. I've read that the interior is "old fashioned", but I think it's much smarter and less fussy than many of the more modern avant garde interiors (e.g. I hate the new fiesta's dash, it's so in-your-face).
I test drove the octavia a few years ago when I ended up with the C5. There was a lot that I liked about it but found there was a very surprising amout of road noise, even though it wasn't running on very low-profile rubber. And though the years have passed, they still have the PD engines. I was very tempted at the time by the (old) Superb, but that's really way too big.
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Motorpoint have 308 1.6 Hdis 08 reg, for 10 grand. You can do a lot of other things with the £6000 you save!
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Bazza I know what you mean. It's funny but when I was homestly explaining my criteria to the nameless VW dealer I mentioned, he was totally dismissive of the idea that I might end up buying a car fractionaly less good than the Golf so I could have a large amount of cash in my pocket.
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Felix. Interesting to read your thoughts.
I've just replaced my 2002 Mondeo Ghia with a new C5 Tourer. I have huge respect for the Skoda Octavia and tried hard to get one to suit me. I needed space similar to the Mondeo so found them just a bit small being a Golf based size.... that could suit you. The C5 is a bit of an odd size... it's Mondeo size outside but the interior gives up a lot of space to style so it feels smaller inside. Very cosseting though.
Mainly though this time I wanted a car with great refinement and ride comfort after the slightly firm Mondeo (on 17" alloys with 50series tyres)... sadly I found the Octavia over-firm and it still has traces of the road noise character you mentioned noticing on the earlier one.
I will only keep the C5 for its three year warranty period but if I was faced with taking a car onto 6yrs old with maintenance at my own expense I'd probably rather have the Skoda and their good dealers.
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M.M, To be honest the Octavia would have been the perfect size for me now. Much as I've liked my (old shape) C5 it's racked up a fair few miles now and I want to move on before the large billls atart coming in. And I find it a pain in caar parks. Out of curiosity I looked at the new C5 and was amazed by the lack of interior space in such a big car. Style over substance indeed.
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Style *and* substance I'd say but definately not ultimate space like your old C5 and my Mondeo Estate.
I was in a 3 week old Octavia yesterday which reminded me of their character. If you are happy with their size which has always fallen between Mondeo and Focus... and the ride/refinement suits... then you couldn't get a better car.
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That's the pity... I thought the ride was OK (firmish) however the refinement didn't suit me when I tried it previously, and I don't suppose it was improved when it was facelifted a year or so... was it? It's really important for the car to be relaxing on long trips and that road noise would definitely grate. Strange, it's something that was way better in the Golf, I guess VW spent more attention to sound proofing even though they share a lot of the same raw materials.
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I can see your point, Felix. You can have an Octavia with the CR diesel engine, but it has to be the vRS like mine, and the ride is on the firm side. Refinement, on the other hand, is now very good.
A SEAT Exeo estate might well suit you - CR engine, not too big and (you'd have to try to find out) possibly a softer ride if you don't go for the Sport version. But they're quite new on the market and I'm not sure you'd find one within budget.
Does your annual mileage justify a diesel? If not the Octavia 1.8 TSI petrol might be worth a look.
Edited by Avant on 02/01/2010 at 13:01
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I agree the Exeo estate might have been the perfect compromise but you're right that it's a bit over my budget. But I had a test drive in the Exeo saloon yesterday and I was really impressed - it's a very classy car indeed for the money. And the 140PS CR engine is fabulous. So I think I'm now very torn between the Golf and the Exeo, the head says Golf but the heart says Exeo. Out of curiosity I asked the salesman (very good, not pushy at all) for a trade-in quote for the C5 against the demonstrator they were seling and it was very reasonable, I reckon if I hang on in there I could get a good deal. By contrast I suspect (though haven't tried yet), no VW dealer will be keen to give me a good offer and Golfs sell like hot cakes don't they?
I think I'm going to have to draw up a list of the pros and cons and try and reach an objective decision that way. But just a hint for all of you, don't bother looking at the Exeo, it's rubbish ;-)
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Whatever you decide stick with it and walk away! I rejected four deals from the Audi dealer I've just bought from. They kept coming down (and I let them do the chasing). Just before (literally) signing on the dotted line, I said I was still undecided because of the expensive servicing. Cue, free servicing offer.
I was pleased..but 'er indoors wasn't too pleased when she saw the invoice!!! :)
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Will do midlifecrisis, I've not been a terribly strong haggler in the past and must do better so your story should be a salutory lesson. In the meantime nobody can accuse me of not listening to the opinions of the backroom - I visited my local Skoda dealer today and have arranged a test drive in the Octavia 1.4TSI for next saturday. I've a marginal preference for a diesel (but not the PD engines) but I've heard such good things about this engine that I'lll give it a try. They're discounting VAT on new Octavias at the moment which is quite a tempting offer...
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Well Avant I followed your advice and had a go in the Octavia today. And liked it so much I bought one! I took advantage of the zero VAT offer Skoda are running at the moment and got myself a brand spanking new one for less than an ex-demo would have cost me. I was lucky that they had one 1.4TSI Elegance coming in with a colour I didn't object to, so no waiting around for a couple of months, I'm picking it up next week.
The engine is fantastically smooth and quiet and very torquey for petrol. The tripmeter showed pretty miserable fuel consumption but hey it only had 20 miles on the clock and I was reading the thread about the economy you should get with this engine with interest and it didn't look too bad to me. The interior quality was indistinguishable from the Golf, i fact I thought the seats were more comfortable, and the Elegance spec comes with loads of kit I could never have afforded in the VW. Thought road noise was a bit worse than in the Golf and Exeo, and I'd read stuff about possibly iffy soundproofing in Octavias, but it wasn't so bad, just seemed rather senssitive to some surfaces. And the demonstrator was an Estate which I expect would be worse than the hatchback.
Think I got a good deal, I expect a lousy trade-in what with the zero vat offer, but was very pleasantly surprised, so much that I didn't really haggle hard enough. Got myself a few extras thrown in the price but that was about it.
Can't wait until next saturday...
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Glad to have helped, Felix, and let's hope all goes well with the Octavia. A brand new car is always something special so let's hope the weather has stopped being so pathetic by the time you get it.
I agree that 43 mpg is pretty reasonable for a petrol car of this size; demonstrators have usually been shunted around the forecourt and so the consumption shown will be awful - so no worries.
I don't find road noise too bad on my Octavia: to some extent it depends on what tyres it comes with.
Felix = 'happy' - I hope that comes true.
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I don't find road noise too bad on my Octavia: to some extent it depends on what tyres it comes with.
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Comes with 16" as standard, the demo had 15" I think - so touch wood won't be too bad..
Felix = 'happy' - I hope that comes true.
Well I didn't know that :-) I'lll let y'all know what it's like when I get it.
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