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Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/12/2009 at 00:21
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Here's an aerial view of our house, to the right, with the neighbour's to the left:
You can see that there's a strip of land north of the road running between our houses; there's a brick wall between it and our back garden (with the octagonal trampoline in it). The land belongs to us.
You can see the neighbours (left hand side) have a double-width drive - it was originally single width, but they bought some of the land from the previous owners of our house. Here's the land registry document showing the extra land:
(untouched downloaded pdf from the land registry site)
The problem is that they treat the area of our strip of land next to their drive as their own, so whenever they have some work done on their house, which seems to be a few times a year, 'stuff' gets dumped on it. As of this morning we are hosting one of those skip bags, full of their old bathroom suite.
They didn't ask - in the past when they have done this they claim that the land is theirs, but they won't show us anything to back this up. I'm afraid relations aren't good.
Now obviously this land is 'out of the way' - we can't easily see it from the house, and we don't treat it as a front garden. However, it is still ours, we go past it regularly, and we would like to have some say in what people do with it.
I could perhaps ignore it or grit my teeth and bear it, but I know that when my wife sees the new skip bag later this afternoon she will be extremely annoyed. and will want to take action - she's not like me (which is generally a good thing). But what can we do?
One option is to move - well it's largely because of this sort of thing that we will be doing just that some time next year, but that's at least 6 months away due to financial considerations. So any advice about what to do in the shorter term would be appreciated, as I'm already feeling stressed.
Photos removed to protect Focus from being too identifiable
F
Edited by Pugugly on 10/12/2009 at 20:47
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Bring things to a head by putting a 3' closeboard fence around it. They can take legal action if they like, you know as you've the deeds that they can't win. However, if they keep on using it as theirs, problems in this line may occur later.
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A solicitor's letter pointing out their error and indicating that you have the proof that the land belongs to you should be sufficient.
As you are planning to move in any case, the strained relationship is unlikely to prove much worse.
Edited by Stuartli on 10/12/2009 at 13:20
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Only problem might be, when you come to sell, is that I believe neighbour disputes that have become real issues now have to be disclosed to potential purchasers.
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I believe neighbour disputes that have become real issues now have to be disclosed to potential purchasers.
They certainly do. I couldn't believe the amount of questions I had to answer when trying to sell a property a year or so ago. About 30 pages, I think. And quite a number about disputes.
Try to resolve this amicably.
Clk Sec
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Only problem might be when you come to sell is that I believe neighbour disputes that have become real issues now have to be disclosed to potential purchasers.
Yes, we had thought about that - not sure what counts as a 'real' issue, but presumably this is one.
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Thanks FT and Stuartli. I like the idea of a fence, but there might be problems - I'm guessing it wouldn't be cheap, and it wouldn't fit in with the rest of the street.
Stuartli - any idea how much a solicitor's letter would cost?
Actually when I got back from walking the dog just now my wife was already home, and so far she's taken it pretty well - just muttered about the neighbours 'up to their old tricks again'. I spoke to the builder earlier, pointing out that the bag was on our land, and he just said he put it where he was told. But it's going on Saturday allegedly. I'm feeling less stressed now.
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You can normally arrange a free first half-hour consultation with at least one of the solicitors in your area; that should give you an idea of the overall cost.
Probably a lot cheaper than having to sort out the problem with intending future buyers as you will have to make them aware of such matters.
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you can buy a big bag of sand from bnq for 30 quid and have it delivered to your bit of land
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We had a spread with a couple of acres a few years back and a neighb used to use our loooooooong drive to access his bit of land
I had a 4ft fence put all the way around HIS land and that put paid to that.
I didn't fall out with the guy and when he came out to see what all the banging was, I just said "I'm doing it to define and enhance my property"
You're like my missus Focus, and I'm like you're missus but - if you're on the move in 6 months, well - I wouldn't chicken curry about it.
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>>I had a 4ft fence put all the way around HIS land and that put paid to that.>>
Superb piece of thinking...:-)
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HIS land...i think the capitals were emphasing the fact it wasnt HIS land stu
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>>> i think the capitals were emphasing the fact it wasnt HIS land stu <<<
No Sir! it was HIS land which abutted my land - difficult to explain via text - country area on the Bodmin Moor.
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Solicitors letters are fine, but if they still refuse to comply then what? More letters, more costs, more stress, unsellable property.
An amicable solution is better than letting it stew.
Edited by daveyjp on 10/12/2009 at 13:59
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An amicable solution is better than letting it stew.
Agreed - we thought they had accepted it as our land previously, when things were still amicable, but they've just carried on using it.
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Wouldn't a check on the Land Registry show your boundary and therefore resolve the legal position?
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Wouldn't a check on the Land Registry show your boundary and therefore resolve the legal position?
The 2nd image in my original post shows part of the relevant land registry document. It's clear to us, but if the neighbours say they have something that shows something different, and/or choose to ignore it, what's the next step?
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If the boundary is registered on the land registry then what more could they have as evidence? Isn't that the point of the land registry. Otherwise I might claim your back garden next.
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If the boundary is registered on the land registry then what more could they have as evidence?
I guess that's where Espada'a RICS person comes in - they convert the land registry document into actual measurements on the ground. But even if we took it that far (which apparently isn't cheap), what if we come home and find stuff on the land again? I don't think the police would be that interested, unless my wife threatened fisticuffs in which case we might not get the result we are after :-)
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Get it checked out or it could become a nightmare once you try to sell - fence it off would be my suggestion !
RICS is very good but pricy but at least you get a result. Police wouldn't be interested unless it decayed to violence - you could however claim damages from your neighbour if he stopped you "enjoying" your land.....
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This can be a complicated and awkward area of law and disputes arise easily.
Get onto the RICS and find a Neighbour Dispute Specialist (I am one) who will give 30 mins free advice. Take it, and get a detailed report from them (It will cost) as to where the boundary is located.
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Get onto the RICS
Thanks Espada - I've found
www.rics.org/site/scripts/documents.aspx?categoryI...3
and will have a look.
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>>I couldn't believe the amount of questions I had to answer when trying to sell a property a year or so ago. About 30 pages, I think.
Just dug out the Property Information form. No, I definitely wouldn't be looking for a dispute 6 months before selling!
Clk Sec
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Just dug out the Property Information form. No I definitely wouldn't be looking for a dispute 6 months before selling!
I'm not sure if neighbours would want a legal fight. I showed them the land registry document last time we discussed this, and I don't think they have anything that actually disagrees with it. They just use that as an excuse for using our land, knowing that we can't do anything about it.
So I'm not sure if it's a 'real' dispute?
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A solicitors letter will make selling your house near impossible.
Any form of Neigbour dispute documentation will do the same thing.
You are moving in 6 months, leave it for the new owners
Edited by Altea Ego on 10/12/2009 at 17:21
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You are moving in 6 months leave it for the new owners
Understood - sounds tempting.
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>> You are moving in 6 months leave it for the new owners
That would be the easy way out. Couldn't do it myself, though.
Clk Sec
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>> You are moving in 6 months leave it for the new owners That would be the easy way out. Couldn't do it myself though.
I understand what you are saying, and it would worry me to a certain extent. But I'm not sure it would actually be a problem for the next owners - either:
1. Next owner might be the sort of person that the neighbour wouldn't risk antagonising (I'm sure there are plenty of BRers who would fit this description - not violent or aggressive, just know how to handle this sort of situation).
2. Next owner might get on fine with neighbours, and be happy to let them 'borrow' the land.
It's not a day-to-day problem, and new faces might wonder what all the fuss was about, if they ever found out.
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Show ownership of the land by landscaping/gardening/fencing it.
It will be much harder for your neighbour to dump stuff even if he only has to step over a low barrier.
I agree about not wanting to start a formal dispute, but I wonder if telling your neighbour not to flytip on your property is doing that.
I wouldn't let builder's waste accumulate on land I owned, no matter who dumped it.
In the North East, the local council will remove it free of charge.
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SWMBO is office manager for 2 branches of a Solicitors in Cornwall, she sez if you want to know the cost of a Solicitors letter - phone one up and ask em = simples.
When I had a dispute with Mr. Neighb on Bodmin Moor, he complained to the council and they wrote me a letter, when I sold the haus I didn't mention that fact on the questions form - well I am from sowf lunden ... nothing ever came of it though.
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When I had a dispute with Mr. Neighb on Bodmin Moor he complained to the council and they wrote me a letter when I sold the haus I didn't mention that fact on the questions form - well I am from sowf lunden ... nothing ever came of it though.
Top Man. I concur.
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Not sure of the legal position re 'fly tipping'. perhaps it is only an offence on public land, road verges, laybys etc? He is putting stuff on your land but I am not sure if this is the offence of fly-tipping as laid down by Statute.
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Bought a new mobile phone earlier this week on line. It's a lovely bit of kit
Heres what it is capable of.........Sending and receiving calls and texts !...that's all, no camera, camcorder, radio, barbecue and it won't do the ironing ! Having been working at my new part-time career as a car jockey, I found that I couldn't hear calls on my Nokia, even on full volume, due to traffic. When my hands were cold I couldn't operate the keys. The whole thing was just too fiddly. The new one has a massive ringtone, big clear keys, a speaker volume that you can hear from the next block and a grippy finish........brilliant !
In short, a real old-folk's phone. But I care not for fashion, others may sneer, but I can hear !
Anyone else happy to regress in this way ?
Ted
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Not one of these is it :-)
www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=222271
Actually I need to get something like this for the parents in law.
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Doro is the best known of such type of phones but, to be absolutely honest, I've always thought that they were way over the top price wise.
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Not quite, Rob, but it is a Doro. Not as flash as that, black case, no ABCD but up/down scroll and menu and back buttons. It's longer than the Nokia as well, so you feel you're actually speaking into the right place.
Ted
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Wasn't taking the mickey or anything. I think most phones for most people are getting too complex with big screens and small buttons. And most people text and talk only.
I was a funny scene last week of someone in their twenties talking on the mobile. They'd move it from their ear to listen to in front of their mouth to talk ;-) Must have thought the mic wasn't sensitive enough or something.
My first mobile was a brick of a Nokia (one of their first GSM attempts in 1999). Could receive texts but not send. But then texting was an engineering function and not aimed at end-users originally. Although the Nokia of the time (2160?) did do it. In fact that would be a really good phone now.
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Not cheap are they? Which one did you buy Ted?
tinyurl.com/ya7kjqf
Do you use a wired earpiece when you are driving?
Edited by drbe on 11/12/2009 at 06:42
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Not cheap are they? Which one did you buy Ted?
>Hi drbe....It's the 342, it wasn't that price though, without looking, I think it was about £80.
I haven't tried the earpiece yet as I can usually pull over and park.....then I can write as well !
The in-car charger was £15..a bit pricey but I've suffered a flat batt at the roadside before...it's incredibly hard to find a phone box that works !
I know you weren't taking the mick, Rob...never thought it for a moment...but if you ever did, well, I can take it, being a ruffty, tuffty, roustabout, dependable sort of guy !!!Ha Ha
Ted
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>>My first mobile was a brick of a Nokia...>>
I still stick with my now long in the tooth Nokia 3310 - compact, excellent sound and does all I require, yet has a number of unexpected advanced features.
Dropped it accidentally the other day onto a hard floor surface, but fortunately no damage to the unit and it continues to work as it should.
Still one of Nokia's most successful phones in the firm's history. See:
conversations.nokia.com/almanac/nokia-3310/
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OK, as we're into old phone nostalgia then here's the collection currently sitting behind my desk, although they're not mine - honest!
yfrog.com/j7somephonesj
If you want to buy 'classic' phones retrobrick sell some:-
www.retrobrick.com/
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>>If you want to buy 'classic' phones ..>>
Wot, no Philips Savvy, a remarkably well featured mobile, which was my first such acquisition in August 2000 from Virgin Mobile?
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The savvy was the first phone I got Nicole. It was without doubt a pile of junk. A dreadful thing.
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>>A dreadful thing. >>
There were different Savvy models. The one I had proved excellent and its features included voice dialling and auto redial.
Only gave it up because the older offspring gave me the 3310 and I liked its menu simplicity and no nonsense approach to the basics.
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The finest phone(s) of mine or any generation were the:
5110. Great performance, nice size, great battery life, easy to use.
and the
6130 (after the software up-grade)
Again Great performance - could pull in a signal inside a lead sealed box, superb battery life, and good bluetooth implementation.
Nothing has really come close. 6130s still pull good money on Ebay.
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Yes, still got a working 5110 at home, it's about the only phone that fits in the carkit in SWMBO's Zafira.
I think the 6310i was the ultimate business phone for a long time in terms of battery life and right level of functionality.
Still got loads of 6130s and suchlike at work for network testing, some of them must be coming up for 10 years old by now.
>>could pull in a signal inside a lead sealed box
LOL, yes, which is a bit of a problem when you're trying to isolate the phone from the network so you can accurately control the signal level!
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I think the 6310i was the ultimate business phone for a long time in terms of battery life
Apart from the obvious like simple screen and no fancy stuff, one reason the battery lasted so long on the 6310i was it's capacity. Even the normal size one held quite a bit of energy. It helped because it was not only the battery but the back of the phone so quite large.
My Nokia e51 has a battery of similar capacity and lasts for ages too. Maybe a successor to the 6310i.
Officially my company phone is still a 6310i.
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>>could pull in a signal inside a lead sealed box
If can pull a signal through 6 ft of earth as well, that's the one to buy to avoid premature burial.!
Ted
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One drawback of big button phones is that (depending on the design) it can be easy to press a key unintentionally, particularly if they protrude outside the surface of the casing. This is a particularly important consideration for a mobile phone which is being carried in a pocket.
Edited by L'escargot on 11/12/2009 at 07:19
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Binatone do a big button "simple phone"
Makro did a special on them a few weeks back - £30 +VAT IIRC
A lot less than the Doro but the same basic/large button phone.
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motor trader i knew (dead now) was always ringing 999 by accident while the phone was in his pocket,it got to the stage where it was an embarrassment to be near him because you could hear someone on the end of the phone asking if he was alright and did he need an ambulance
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The Doro has automatic keylock...you can set the time. I've set mine for 30 secs.
If you haven't used it for that time it locks.
Ted
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Even with the keypad locked, most phones (maybe all?) will allow you to dial 999 or 112. Try hitting the buttons. Hit the wrong one before you've got all 3 digits right and it will cancel it out.
So it's still possible to accidentally dial the emergency services if the keypad is locked.
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Not on the iphone. It has no keypad.
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True and so probably not going to work on Google Android based phones, Nokia N97, N97 Mini etc.
I bet its an EU directive to allow this so you can pick up someone phone and without knowing how to unlock it you can dial 999 (and of course you don't need a working SIM to dial emergency services either). Trouble is most people would think the phone is locked and wouldn't hitting 999 or 112.
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I bet its an EU directive to allow this so you can pick up someone phone and without knowing how to unlock it you can dial 999 (and of course you don't need a working SIM to dial emergency services either).
Yes, I that functionality was part of the GSM specs. from day 1 IIRC, but I don't think UK network operators ever implemented it. I'm sure this has come up before in the BR, I'll see if I can find the discussion.
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I would like to draw BR Members attention to a stunning exhibition of photographs in the National Theatre on the South Bank, running until 24th Jan 2010, with free admission. It is the prize winning entries for the 2009 Landscape Photogapher of the Year. Totally amazing photographs and a real pleasure on the eye. It made me wonder why I go abroad for scenery! The printed catalogue of the entries is a rather steep £25 but it is available from a well-known on-line book seller for £12.50. 5 minutes walk North out of Waterloo main line station, on the right before you cross the river, on Waterloo Bridge. You will enjoy it if you go!
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Had two letters in the post yesterday, both addressed to my MIL who died in May.
Fair enough, they didn't know.
My gripe was that both were requests from charities coming up to Christmas....again, fair enough. One had, on the front of the envelope ' Final Demand ' and the other had, in handwriting ( printed ) 'Urgent request, return by Dec 19th '.....not fair enough !!
Had MIL been alive to receive these, at 95, she would have been a. worried b. mortified to think she owed money and, worse, that the postman would think she owed money. This is not the first time this type of trick has been tried, a couple of years ago I actually rang and complained about a letter to her from some utility which looked, even to me, like a final, threatening demand when all it was was something to do with flogging insurance.
Is this getting more prevalent in the financial climate with reputable charities, as these were, getting up to more sly tricks to extricate money from the unsuspecting ?
I shall be on the phone tomorrow !
Ted
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Good give them some stick Ted, that fine generation didn't owe money to every T, D or H and would be worried sick over it, i know my late parents would have.
Maybe a letter to the names at the head of those organisations might yield better results and maye even end up at the right desk.
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Agreed. These strong arm tactics are inappropriate, as are letters generated by computers saying "Dear Mr Deceased". At my age I am more moved to give by simple messages saying £3 will buy a mosquito net, £50 will buy books for a school library, and that sort of thing. Threats and lies don't do it for me!
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Are charities exempt from supervision from ASA - something tells me they're not.
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I'd also lodge a complaint with the Charities Commission.
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"At my age I am more moved to give by simple messages saying £3 will buy a mosquito net"
Just be very sure that £2.80 of your £3.00 isn't going towards the directors' 7 series BMWs, or fifteen "business transition managers" at 60k a year each or some such.
It might put a downer on your day if you double check the cost of "administration" declared by various charities, but it's perhaps wise to donate with your eyes open.
Edited by Dipstick on 14/12/2009 at 08:47
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I can vouch for Christian Aid - no nothing of any of the others. When my wife died there was a significant collection in lieu of flowers to the local Children's Hospice - they were very good and transparent. That's where my money will go.
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8410898.stm
Another charity with a motoring link.
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Apart from the question of how much such TV advertising costs charities that might be put to better use, I've been warned by friends that some charities start you off with a low direct debit amount and then stealthily increase it over time by small sums.
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There are various regulatory bodies for charities who will take a keen interest in any wrongdoings - in Scotland it is OSCR, assume Charities Commission in England.
It may be an unfair and biased comment, but I firmly believe that for best value for money, support a local charity - whether it be a Hospice, a sick kids ward at the local hospital etc.
Some of the larger charities have huge amounts of non-frontline staff as it were and employ consultants, external firms etc.
eg. with Charity Shops, in 2008 some national charities had less than 10% of total income was profit, whereas some of the local Hospices were as high as 60%
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If one owns a cheap and cheerful mechanical/clockwork watch and it is fully wound, as the spring loses tension so that the watch eventually stops, will there be a period of time when the watch is losing time, before it finally stops? Answer needed to post on another forum! I think it will, for some hours, gradually lose time; someone else says it will keep good time as it has a 'compensator' whatever that is. I know mechanical timepieces have devices to compensate for temperature changes but not for the mainspring going slack. Comments please!
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The balance wheel in effect acts like a compensator. If it didnt it would be fast when fully wound, or slow when winding down. Both of which are usless traits in a watch.
Of course when its approaching "wound down" limit it may slow, which is why most watches have an (approx) *30 hour movement and need to be wound once a day at the same time.
*Unless of course it has a longer than that feature, but still needs to be wound at the same time every day.
*unless of course it is self winding, then it needs to be worn for 12 hours a day.
I have my fathers 1960's bulova chronograph, fully mechanical. Very accurate but now needs a service.
Edited by Altea Ego on 14/12/2009 at 15:34
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>>I have my fathers 1960's bulova chronograph
SWMBO bought me an Accutron (tuning fork technology). Expensive, state of the art technology, briefly, until chips came along. It still works with an accuracy nowhere near approaching that what you can buy for peanuts today.
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an Accutron ... still works with an accuracy nowhere near approaching that what you can buy for peanuts today.
They're not too bad - in the same order of accuracy over time, anyway.
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I have a Georgian Carriage clock - it is definitely slowing as it approaches wind up time - but I guess it's allowed to after so many years of faithful service.
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I have a small wind up fob watch. Each wind last aprox 24 hours. It is always pretty accurate when I go to bed but is usually around ten minutes slow when i wind it up next morning. I guess the accuracy does deteriorate as it gets more "unwound".
Not sure if that's any help....
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I am buying a house and wonder if any backroomers can help me.
My wife and I have seen a house we love and are keen to buy. We have made an offer, it has been accepted and we have instructed a solicitor and arranged for a survey to be completed (it was done last week). Our solicitor is waiting for draft contracts to be sent from the sellers solicitor. We are lucky in that we don?t have to organise a mortgage and are not dependent on the sale of our current house to fund the purchase of the new one: The current house is owned by my wife and has a lot of equity in it. We are borrowing the full amount to buy the new house from my father in law and will pay him back a large lump sum when we sell our current house in the spring and the rest over 20 years with a nominal interest rate. We may have to also get a small mortgage (around 20-30% of the new house value to add to the lump sum we pay my F-i-L when we sell the current house).
The survey for the new house came back with the following points; the roof is in poor condition (slates have been temporally repaired and there is no felt underneath them), there are some cracks in the render around the bay window and above the front door and the surveyor believes the house is worth around £10k less than our agreed price (we are not sure we agree on this final point, we think with all factors considered, to us at least, it is well worth the price we have agreed to pay). The surveyor recommended further investigation of the cracks by a structural engineer and a new roof and gave a rough figure of £9000 to replace the roof and make good any damage cause by investigations to the cracks.
I have never bought a house before and am baffled by the process. My wife bought hers a few years ago but seems a bit vague on the process too. Both our parents have been in their current houses for years and can?t offer us much help either with the details of purchasing our new place. Because of all this, my question to you is this: How do we organise a more detailed structural survey before we own the house? I don?t really want to get involved in paying to replace rendering if it has to be removed to properly examine the brickwork and also doubt the seller would agree to that either. Do I just contact a structural engineer from the phone book and ask them to liaise with the agent to agree a time to undertake the survey? Also, we are keen for the sale price to reflect the work needed on the roof. Do we request the sale price is reduced to take into account the full cost of the roof repairs or is it more usual to come to some agreement and split the difference? Finally, how do we go about renegotiating the asking price, through the solicitor or agents?
I?m sorry for all the questions, particularly as I a very new poster on here (although I do read everyday and have done so for years!). I just feel a bit overwhelmed by the whole process and want to be clear in my head the normal etiquette/process for house buying.
Thanks in advance,
Rob
Edited by rtj70 on 14/12/2009 at 16:08
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An initial survey is done for two mian reasons.
1/ To satisfy the building society that
a: its of normal construction,
b: It has no major faults or issues that decrease its value (subsidence, flood risk etc etc)
c: To ensure the value of the house is as contained in your mortgage offer. (ie no fraud)
2/ A guide to you that it is of a good standard.
The survey can flag up issues of two types
1/ Minor works which will need some expense to put right
or
2/ Major or unknown faults wich will require a consultant building engineer.
1/ is usually used to barter down the cost of the house. (ie put it right or knock xxx pounds off purchase price)
2/ May mean that the building society will withhold a proportion of your loan - pending resolution or clarification of the issues. They may even withdraw or put the loan on hold in entirety.
With my first house I had 2/ (crack in wall, I got a consultant building engineer to state what was wrong and the resolution provided in a report, needed to be stripped and rerendered, with a roof truss re configured, then got a quote for the work and told the seller they could a: get it fixed or b: knock that price off. They chose b: and I got a tame builder to do it for 1/2 that price)
What you need need is a builder, one you know well or is recomended to read the surveyors report and tell you if its true, and how much he reckons it would cost to fix.
Take that price off the purchase price or swallow the extra cost if you think its worth it.
Edited by rtj70 on 14/12/2009 at 16:08
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Do we request the sale price is reduced to take into account the full cost of the roof repairs or is it more usual to come to some agreement and split the difference?
We've been in a similar situation although as a seller. Our price got reduced by an amount due to some work being required. We agreed a reduction that was not the whole amount. But the amount was based on standard RICS (?) rates so probably doable cheeper anyway.
As a result of the initial survey the buyer decided to get someone to give the roof a quick check (roofers found it fine), a structural engineer due to some issues which are actually design faults (Edwardian house and all near us have the same issues). For such an old house a damp and timber survey was also undertaken.
So we got a bit less than we wanted (not happy with that) but that's house selling.
Do get a good builder or similar to offer some advice - it's probably a large amount of money at stake. You might think it's worth it still but a slate roof could be costly to replace. And if in a conservation area you might only be allowed a slate roof.
The problem you might have is checking things if covered in render etc.
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>>.. but a slate roof could be costly to replace..>>
When our mid-1880s semi-detached had necessary work done on it with the help of the then 90 per cent home improvement grant from the local council, part of the work involved was the need to replace the slate roof's by now rusty nails, along with the felt.
The original slates went back after the felt had been done because they were, not surprising, still in first class condition.
Incidentally that 90 per cent grant was the bargain of the century. All the work involved cost more than £7,000, yet we had only paid £2,300 originally for the property nearly 20 years earlier...:-)
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>Incidentally that 90 per cent grant was the bargain of the century. All the work >involved cost more than £7,000
I am sure the rest of the local rate payers are pleased to have contributed £6,300 for your roof
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>>I am sure the rest of the local rate payers are pleased to have contributed £6,300 for your roof>>
Perhaps you should read the post a little more carefully...:-)
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the roof is in poor condition (slates have been temporally repaired and there is no felt underneath them) there are some cracks in the render around the bay window and above the front door
Get a general builder &/or roofer to look the place over. Give him/them some cash.
The felt isn't an issue (although if re-roofed it will have to be installed) - the nails are. They'll be rusting through, just under their heads, and lots may be similarly corroded.
The "render" would be a concern to me. I have made a vow never to buy a house that's rendered, or a house that's been painted, ever again.
Do we request the sale price is reduced to take into account the full cost of the roof repairs or is it more usual to come to some agreement and split the difference?
Were I the vendor, I'd be pretty miffed by that sort of request, and probably tell you to hop it, but that's just me & my principles, YMMV.
Finally how do we go about renegotiating the asking price through the solicitor or agents?
The estate agent's selling it on behalf of the vendor. You tell them your thoughts, they tell the vendor, they relay the vendor's thoughts to you (unless the vendor is chatty, in which case you could ask them - but the agent might get the hump).
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:36
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Rob. We've bought, sold & improved loads of houses... and had dealings with relatives and their money.
It seems sadly you and the family have no real experience to call on.
First as said above the lack of roofing felt in itself is not an issue. When we bought our current 1920s house it had half a dozen slipped slates. Repaired them all and in 15yrs only two more have slipped. Had the roof inspected last month by a trusted roofer who said it had 20-30yrs in it before replacement. Roof problems are a standard/easy thing for the surveyor to bring up.
Render is a pain for showing cracking even if the movement of the bricks underneath isn't a serious issue. Has it had double glazing? Sometimes taking out the support of original timber frames and replacing with upvc can give rise to cracks. Employ a structural surveyor and it could be his duty to detail every issue in the most worrying of terms. Having said that these cracks could be the first outward signs of a real subsidence issue you might want to know about before buying!
If you are borrowing money from the family of course you can ignore the surveyors advice if you want. However do bear in mind if you buy with family money and then find, as you mention, you need to take out any form of mortgage to top up the repayment to father in law then the b.soc will survey it at that time and if these faults come up again it may affect obtaining that mortgage.
Finally it's not the question you asked but I would think very long and hard about borrowing money from the father in law to repay over 20yrs. However strong their finances may seem now loads can change in 10-20yrs... if they needed repayment in full at a time you couldn't raise a mortage to pay them back all sorts of hard feelings can develop.
I also wonder if you have checked out the tax implications of a subsidised loan from a relative. I am no expert but understand there are inland revenue rules in place to stop an effective transfer of funds between families by the lending of monies at nominal interest rates.
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:36
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Thanks everyone so much for your advice. Some interesting points have been raised. With regard to the problems lisited in the initial survey, I think what I'll do is contact a structurL engineer to examine the cracks in the bay and a roofer to look at the roof. Worryingly, lots of people have expressed suspicion of rendering today (I've spoken to several colleagues). It's so hard to be purely objective about a house - we want it so mch but obviously don't want to buy something that may be gradually sliding down the hill! In answer to a previous poster, it has had upvc windows in the bay and others have spoken of an association between these and cracks developing. Am I naive to think that a bay constructed of wood wouldn't be horribly expensive to correct?!
With regard to the complications of borrowing money from relatives, again, some good points have been raised. I think we need to think carefully but (assuming we only buy once we know no faults are present thy would render (!) it un-mortagable) we will be able to afford the house even with a conventional mortgage if needed. We will have to look at the tax implications of a loan from my f-i-l though (he has provided similar help to my wife's two brothers recently too).
Thanks again, I am clearer now on what we have to do.
Rob.
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:37
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"it has had upvc windows in the bay and others have spoken of an association between these and cracks developing. Am I naive to think that a bay constructed of wood wouldn't be horribly expensive to correct?!"
Rob. Its not so much of a problem. The cracks appear because the old wooden window frame would have acted as a suport for the bay. The builders have put acro jacks in to support the bay when the wooden frame is taken out (so it doesent collapse) and take them away when the plastic frames are installed (if they are supporting the bay they need to be specced with steel inner supports).
All this jacking up and down, and the subsequent settling of the plastic frames, will cause narrow cracks in the render above and to the side of the window frames. Its nothing major just needs to be filled once its settled down again.
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:37
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A window company using needles and acro props when replacing the window frames? 10 to 1 they didn't and hence the cracks.
We live opposite bay windowed Victorian houses, most have had new windows and I've never seen it done this way. Risky, but industry wide practice.
Alternatively the uPVC window may not be strong enough to support the weight of the bay which can cause cracking.
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....to examine the cracks in the bay
>>In answer to a previous poster it has had upvc windows in the bay and others have spoken of an association between these and cracks developing.
Am I naive to think that a bay constructed of wood wouldn't be horribly expensive to correct?!
I had my Critall ( steel) window frames replaced by aluminium ones.
Due to manufacturing problems the frames were then totally replaced.
To my great concern the brickwork under one of the bedroom bays detached itself from main structure so that I could see daylight through the cracks.
The problem occured due to insufficient support of the upper structure while the big hole was there for the new frames.
The company had obviously dealt with these sort of problems and repaired things plus some compensation.
They "strapped it up" . This process is pretty basic. They cut two horizontal strips into the plaster work about an inch and a half wide at both sides of the bay. These bridged the gaps. Metal strips were then screwed to the main structure and the bay. The plaster work was then restored.
Obviously this messed up the decoration in the bay under the window and made a dusty mess. Nnormally the plaster work is chipped out but in my case they had to resort to using a diamond cutting disk which is horrendous for dust.
Hope this makes sense
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:37
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Any structural survey is at your cost, not so bad if you buy the house, but not so good if the deal falls through.
You'd only want to do that with a couple of properties and the house buying process would soon begin to pall.
As others have said, you can use a survey/builder's quotes as ammo against the vendor, but if they refuse to budge, your only options are to put up the money they want, or slope away, licking your (expensive) wounds.
Final thought, is there anything in the Homebuyers' Information Pack - I've never seen one - that you can use to knock the price down?
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 18:38
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>>> we want it so mch but obviously don't want to buy something that may be gradually sliding down the hill! <<<
Ah! you mentioned a four letter word ... HILL, if the sub soil is clay - walk away Jose.
Old houses have faults, because, well - they're old ... some quite old houses can have horrendous faults, but it doesn't stop people buying them and neither would it me.
My old house needs re-roofing, but it don't leak or anything so it won't get done (by me)
Re: render - most of the properties down my road are rendered & it keeps the weather out & looks nice.
Why not consider buying a new house - it'll most likely still have faults, but at least they'll be new faults.
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As I've been driving around after dark, I notice lots of Christmas lights of all descriptions. Some are nice and bright, some are rather hard to see.
Can anyone recommend a brand of such (not necessarily flashing), emitting nice warm gold light, or possibly multicoloured lights, but not hospital or police blue, and not blue/white, that show up well?
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I got bright white indoor / outdoor lights (bright leds) for 14.99 at Homebase.
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But I don't want white, I want mellow yellow.
Are yours properly bright? I could see if HB've got any candle-coloured ones.
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mine are ice white and very bright, but HB do have the best selection I found.
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I have been there and wondered if it would have been better, to not attack such a perfect defensive position head on - but rather to have attacked it from the rear in a pincer movement from beaches each side?
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Because the plan was to have a broad attack on a wide front so as to secure your beachhead.
To leave omaha alone would have had an enemy force at your rear - not great.
Omaha would have fallen more easily if they had:
a: launched the DD Shermans in the correct place
b: launched them at the correct distance from the shoreline.
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....and the weather was a factor as well.
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A greater force going in at both sides though would have averted the particular slaughter of that beach. With particular reference to that lone heavy machine gun that just kept firing.
I though most of the casualties were getting off the beach rather than facing forces in the immediate rear of it.
Heavier troop movements in a pincer could surely have taken Omaha from the rear?
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well they had a target of being x miles inland at D plus 24, with the beach heads of gold juno sword and omaha linked up. (utah wasnt planned to be linked up to the others at d+24 - the marshes and river estuary provided flank cover)
To attack Omaha from the rear would be fine, except you would then have the german 21st panzer division at your back as you attacked the rear of the defending forces at Omaha.
Omaha wasnt predicted to be that much of a problem (tho they knew it was the toughest)
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It`s interesting that you know a lot about this AE. It sent a shiver up my spine looking down at that enclosed beach.
I was talking to one of our paratroopers further up the coast.
Edited by oilrag on 14/12/2009 at 20:27
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Its also strange that the Portsmouth Caen ferry comes ashore at Sword beach.
To look at the scores of holiday makers playing on those huge wide open sands, yet 65 years ago it was a scene of war.
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It was an almighty mess - Montgomery had a lot to answer for, before during and later on. Excellent books on the subject are:-
Six Armies in Normandy General Sir John Keegan
D-Day Anthony Bevoir
Das Reich - Max Hastings.
Band of Brothers - Stephen Ambrose (As well as Ton Hanks/Spielberg's Drama - truly excellent record)
Oilrag - If I'm not mistaken the German machine gunner survived and was taken prisoner - I'm sure I saw him being interviewed.
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 20:40
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