What about an hotel?
I always thought an intruded H at the beginning of a word starting with a vowel was an individual thing rather than regional, but on coming to London discovered that it is a common mannerism among people from Jamaica (but only Jamaica, not the other Caribbean islands).
Hengland is a hevil place man!
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French word though - silent H !
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But hanglicised by most people with a haudible haspirate...
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That's what my old (she was quite young and tasty back in '65) 'O' level English language teacher taught us. Hotel is a French word with a silent H and is therefore pronounce "an 'otel" with an inverted 'v' over the 'O' (whatever French accent that is).
She also used to drum into us "There is only one aitch in aitch" in her best Lady Bracknell voice.
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an inverted 'v' over the 'O'
It's called a circumflex. An official, modernising attempt was made to abolish it a few years ago, but my guess is that proper red-blooded frogs continue to use it, as I do.
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How do you lot pronounce "boring"?
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How do you lot pronounce "boring"?
'A bit too detailed for some of the weaker sisters'
:o}
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Lud :-
- 40 years ago I did French 'A' Level ... My recollection is a bit murky but my understanding of the use of the circumflex in the French language was that it signified the omission of an 'S' after the letter over which the circumflex was placed.
Thus ' l'hotel ' with a circumflex over the 'o' was originally in fact 'l' hostel'
The verb 'etre' ( 'to be' in English ) normally shown with the circumflex over the 'e' therefore becomes 'estre ' which manifests itself when declining the verb in the second and third person singular as 'tu es ' ( you are ) and 'il est'( he , she or it is )
I never thought I'd be trotting out that seemingly worthless information on a motoring forum .
I reckon its worth a virtual pint to anyone who can work out how to put a proper circumflex onto a post.....
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...how to put a proper circumflex onto a post.....
I'd just nail it.
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OK - virtual pint on the way to Pugugly Towers....
.....But can any one who is not a moderator do it?
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ô
www.frenchentree.com/french-language-learn/Display...6
helicopter - I donate my pint to you.
Edited by jbif on 03/12/2009 at 14:34
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..helicopter - I donate my pint to you...
Just don't jump into that chopper of yours too soon after drinking it. :)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=80...4
and
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=80...5
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Ah - but.....if you cut and paste I can do that.
ô - thats the easy way
Has anybody managed it without cut and paste?
I try the Alt plus numbers way and all I get is an acute accent - Is it me or the keyboard?
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On MacOS X, you can get a circumflex for example by pressing Option Key (also referred to as ALT) plus I and then release then and hit the vowel, so I did this to get ô or û.
On Windows the easiest way is probably to use the Character Map tool, from Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools and choose Character Map. There are other methods.
EDIT: I delayed finishing this so my post was later than the other suggestions. The Apple way is pretty straight forward. But no good for Welsh I find because it does not allow a circumflex on a w - and neither does this site it seems.
Edited by rtj70 on 03/12/2009 at 15:56
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 ۞Ằ Ô
Thats very interesting - thanks rtj 70 ( and the others who assisted )
I would get a virtual round in but I'm virtually flying in the morning..........
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"Â ۞Ằ Ô.
I would get a virtual round in but I'm virtually flying in the morning.........."
Given that post, it looks as if you are already virtually drunk.
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But some accented characters are not being displayed on this website due to the character set used. Hence the strange string in helicopter post above.
Edited by rtj70 on 03/12/2009 at 17:23
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I use Character Map, thus ê
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Alt + numbers works for me.
û
Clk Sec
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i like get the feeling that like english language isn't learned in school any more, yeah, innit.
Edited by L'escargot on 02/12/2009 at 14:59
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Whatever
I'm with O.N. :-)
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How do you lot pronounce "boring"?
In this thread: "Old Navy."
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So how do we describe the "pedentry" displayed on here about grammer and pronunciation?
What about spelling?
Or are you an agent provocateur?
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Or are you an agent provocateur?
>>
AE trying to wind people up? Never happen. :-)
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AE, and anyone else who knows the plot of Shakespeare's tragedy Hamlet: Google The Skinhead Hamlet and read it. It's very short and had me rolling about with laughter. The BR swear filter wouldn't like it though.
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Too many Fuffs. Over the top to be funny. Bit like Derek and Clive.
M
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Sorry you're too grown-up for it MD. Had me in stitches the first time I saw it. It compresses every bit of the plot into three double-spaced pages.
I hope you didn't miss the editors' note at the beginning, saying they had sought the same sort of effect as the New English Bible?
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>> So how do we describe the "pedentry" displayed on here about grammer and pronunciation? >> >> >> >> >> What about spelling? >>
Or are you an agent provocateur? >>
Non sequitur nonsensical secateurs. >8 snip snip snip 8<
Edited by jbif on 03/12/2009 at 08:57
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So how do we describe the pedentry displayed on here about grammer and pronunciation?
Er,would that be grammar? :)
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Definitive answer today - from an English Teacher friend - " 'istoric " is a valid pronunciation as it is a word of French origin (Histoire) and the H would be silent and it was probably an affectation by Huw - but nonetheless not incorrect.
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They've gorran ippopotamus at Chester Zoo....
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>>>They've gorran ippopotamus <<<
I used to own an house there - Gorran, near Mevagissey!
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Thats gorran 'aven to you
(spent a very wet week there once, never seen so much rain)
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>>> (spent a very wet week there once, never seen so much rain) <<<
Well comrade, that's a dry area (for Cornwall) known as the Roseland Peninsular (start of) there's a mighty fine beach near to the aven called Vault beach, where I used to take my spiney bifidi mutt.
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First Scouser: How d'you spell 'worral'?
Second S: No such wared.
1st S: Yes, you know, as in 'My brother's done something worral get him in trouble'.
2nd S: Dat's not 'Worral'. Dat's 'darrell'.
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> nonetheless not incorrect
you what? if you meant to say "correct" then say so.
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Sorry AE, years of talking in riddles an charging for it.
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Sorry AE, years of talking in riddles an charging for it.
Don't let him browbeat you PU. There is a solid difference of nuance between 'not incorrect' and 'correct'. That's not a riddle, it's a difference of that much-ignored and much-derided thing, meaning.
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"Not incorrect" is a weak and unsure term and means the author of such a phrase is weasel minded and not to be trusted.
"Correct" is bold and decisive, the author is an authority. Not to be triffled with
Is that what you mean Lud?
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Is that what you mean Lud?
No. 'Correct' is primary, positive. If believed, it suggests that there is no argument. 'Not incorrect' is less positive. It might describe a second choice, or something that might escape the attention of the, er, inattentive. It suggests that those of very direct and simple perceptions might see whatever it is as incorrect, but that they would be wrong.
Capisce?
Tsk.
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Capisce? Tsk.
No lud you are wrong. Its the language of Uriah Heep. Slimey and handwringing.
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language of Uriah Heep. Slimey and handwringing.
Just language young man. Not everyone's cup of tea of course.
Of course one of the meanings of 'not incorrect' - the main one indeed - is 'correct'. But it would take a much dumber man than you to insist that that was the only possible meaning. I hope I don't presume.
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Lud,
I was humoring him somewhat - I know what I meant and the phrase is correct usage despite the double negative.
He's been working in binary codes too long.
Some people find the difference between illegal and unlawful - a subtle but very different concept.
AE has said in the past that the exact use of language isn't important, or unimportant (again two different meanings) - it was in my line of work, may not be in his...:-)
I do take exception to the untrustworthy comment though - how would he know eh ?
Edited by Pugugly on 08/12/2009 at 22:22
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I do take exception to the untrustworthy comment though - how would he know eh ?
Your a solicitor! of course you cant be trusted!
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It's refreshing (is it not?) to get lessons in English from a man who does not know the difference between "it's" and "its", "you're" and "your", and "loose" and "lose".
Edited by jbif on 08/12/2009 at 23:50
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It's refreshing (is it not?) to get lessons in English from a man who does not know the difference between "it's" and "its" "you're" and "your" and "loose" and "lose".
I don't know about you jbif but I often find there's a big difference between what I know and what I type :-)
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Re: Focus's postPronunciation (continued from IHAQ 330) - Focus {P} Wed 9 Dec 09 07:22 >> I don't know about you jbif but I often find there's a big difference between what I know and what I type :-) >>
Do you mean typos? Yes, of course, you are right and to err is human.
However, if the same spelling has been used by a contributor in scores of previous posts, is it then safe to assume that the author really does not know the correct spelling? For example, there are some contributors (all self proclaimed IT experts) who consistently make the same spelling mistakes (e.g. "loose" instead of "lose"). Perhaps their IT training tells them that paying attention to detail does not matter; as Bill Gates et.al. have proved, there is money to be made in cleaning up the mess after selling products inherently full of "bugs".
For example, a search the forum for words "independant" or "loose" or "dealer principle" or "definate" should reveal how often these "typos" occur. I suppose the excuse that "grammar and spelling does not matter as long as your audience get the meaning" has now been accepted as a norm by a population that has been through the modern "comprehensive" education system.
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"It's refreshing (is it not?) to get lessons in English from a man who does not know the difference between "it's" and "its", "you're" and "your", and "loose" and "lose"."
He no's it pricks the bubbles of the more pompous inhabitants of this site. Those who cant right anything, but mereley cut and paste, for example.
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"Some people find the difference between illegal and unlawful - a subtle but very different concept."
Not sure about subtle - unlawful is against the law; illegal is a sick buzzard.
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