What bell boy said. For obvious reasons they're 99% left-hookers, and even with decent drivers (as most of them are before anyone starts) they don't see things like British truck drivers would.
If you want to know why there's so many of them, thank the EU and the British government's policy on fuel taxation and slavish devotion to every petty piece of legislation going. Simply, the Europeans have undercut our indigenous haulage industry to the point where we ain't got one any more. Those of you who were glad to see all those British lorries gone should have been careful what they wished for.
Rant over before I get too political! ;-)
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I originally locked this because (a) accidents like this discussed in other threads and (b) the political angle will end up political and therefore not appropriate in a motoring thread.
So debate for now but I can see this will be locked again.
Edited by rtj70 on 02/11/2009 at 23:04
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there are a number of things that a car driver can do to narrow down the odds and make a difference to THEIR OWN driving, which would seriously negate the risks
1, Anticipation. If a lorry of whatever nationality is catching up another one or any other slower vehicle, then guess what?.........it's probably going to want to overtake it....which will mean a lane change. Some British lorry drivers seem only capabale of the last minute swerve, the foreign ones have the added blind spot problem, so at least they have an excuse.
2, Drive faster than the lorries, keep out of their way.
3, When overtaking, get a move on, the longer you're beside them, the more you're at risk. What's wrong with accelerating a bit, before dropping back to your chosen speed again.
4, Note the above and take extra care when you see the foreign registration number. How many car drivers bother to note the vehicle's markings or reg number before the overtake?
5, Try not to be the 'meat in the sandwich' i.e. keep another lane free for your own emergency option i.e. don't overtake a lorry that is in lane 1 (you being in lane 2) unless lane 3 is clear....(not always an option on a very busy road i'd admit).
6, Another angle is to move to lane 3 if you're concerned a lorry in lane 1 is maybe going to pull out from lane 1 to lane 2.
It is my opinion that the people most at risk are those that drive at a speed near to that of the lorries, because they're much less likely to use lane 3 for an overtake and are next to the lorry for a much longer time. Maybe a good example of faster is safer?
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Excellent advice from WP, and harleyman echoes my sentiments too:)
No 3 is the one that can avoid it happening most of all though.
It never ceases to amaze me how many car drivers on a motorway are happy to do just 57-59MPH when overtaking and it means they're alondside the trailer for so long. As a car driver I feel vulnerable in that position, sinply because when lane 3 is busy my escape route has totally gone.
I do agree about the 'last minute swerve.
I always looked upon my indicator as asking the question 'please can I pull out'?
30 yrs ago I was taught that when I indicated in a lorry I was making a statement (I am going to pull out), not asking a question.
This isn't the case now thankfully but could be the reason for some of us older drivers having that attitude, albeit the wrong one.
Pat
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Some excellent advice from Westpig, as usual.
Just one comment on 3) : on busy 2-lane dual carriageways (the A14, for example) it is often difficult to avoid running alongside a lorry for longer than you'd like. You could, I suppose, leave a lorry-sized (plus margin) gap for it to slip into - but it would be impractical for everyone in lane 2 to do so.
There is also a big risk of a 'Highway Code Stickler' headlight flash being mis-interpreted by a lorry driver as an invitation to pull out. The situation WP describes when one lorry is gaining rapidly on the one in front is a classic case where the 'hang back, flash to let him out' strategy can help enormously - but could lead to misunderstanding by those not 'in the know'...
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3, When overtaking, get a move on
After passing my test, I had a motorway lesson. My instructor told me in this situation to basically get past as quickly as possible even if it means going above 70mph briefly. Not legal but perhaps not such a bad idea. He wasn't suggesting high mph either.
4, .. take extra care when you see the foreign registration number.
Another example of actually taking note of what is around you. Another thing I learnt from my instructor (and I still do it today) was to take notice of all cars around you and see where they go. So if you'd seen say a red Vectra behind you and it's no longer there.... where did it go... it could be in your blindspot so be careful;.
5, Try not to be the 'meat in the sandwich'
Again told this too and to always have an escape route... so again if a little more speed for a moment removes the risk then the speeding up option might be safer.
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I'd add fit a REALLY LOUD HORN.
It may be the one thing to alert the lorry driver you're there when they start to pull out because they can't see you.
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First problem is that a LHD lorry cannot see the flash unless the driver has numerous perfectly positioned mirrors. Second problem is that when a foreign lorry driver on a UK motorway sees a flash, he will either be in "Continental" mode (where a flash correctly means I'M COMING THROUGH) or in "British mode" ("After You".) And there are British truckers in German registered LHD lorries with Slovakian trailers, as well as Polish truckers in RHD cabs. Not hard to predict the likely consequences, is it?
The biggest problem is that all HGV drivers are also car drivers but the reverse is not the case. Most car drivers cannot think like a lorry driver and are ignorant of: maximum speeds, momentum, 16 speed gearboxes, delivery deadlines, speed governors. Lorry drivers do not have the "luxury" of a central rear view mirror, or being able to mimse, clog the middle lane and brake from 60 in a few seconds.
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To be honest i haven't seen as many accidents involving foreign regd trucks in the last couple of years, i saw many more 2+ years ago.
Some foreign trucker's are very good, some are deadly, similar to ours i suppose.
If Zookeeper is reading this...he was cleaned up by a foreign truck probably nearly 2 years ago....did you ever get any joy with the truck's insurance?
Thats another discussion area completely but just wondered Zoo.
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Would it not be a good idea to have these drivers to have some training on a simulator,to drive on the left.In Groningen the Netherlands they use simulator training for drivers who visit the uk.These accidents are they mostly polish trucks? East Europe please correct me if i am wrong.I dont know if this training is compulsary in the Netherlands ,just a thought
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To ask what is almost certainly a silly question..........why is it not custom and practice for British trucks to hand their trailers over to a continental unit at Calais and for foreign trailers to be collected by British units at Dover for example ? Cost presumably ?
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A nice Utopian idea, Humph!
I'd guess it would be a time-consuming logistical nightmare to organise such an HGV-based relay race at the ferry ports.
The British truckers would no doubt keep dropping the bâton :-)
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There is also a lack of awareness in car drivrs. By watching the traffic in front of you it is possible to anticipate when soneone is going to pull out - i.e. is the gap between the two lorries closing!
Too many drivers havn't a clue what is going on around them
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Westpig
I appreciate there are both good and bad police drivers
( and an uncle of mine was one for years on the motorway btw)
But I was quite disgusted to watch a police motorway driver ( on Police camera action I think)
Attempting to overtake a left hooker , which was already moving out into the third land.
And he had been correctly consistently indicating right the whole time
Anyway the muppet jammed the police car into an non existent gap
then blamed the truck driver for causing the accident!!!!
he also crashed a police car( on film also) driving down the chevrons
alledgedly "skidding" because a tyre blew out
Now
Iffen I tried that as an excuse with the Polis
what recption would I get??
cheers
M
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 04/11/2009 at 13:49
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