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I am surprised that a NIP was issued, received late and managed to get to the 'High Court' for a decision in less time than the strikes have been in place even the first one at the Bristol Office. There may be more to the case thean the newspaper has reported. Regards Peter
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Google "Postal strike helps speeding motorists escape fines" - it's true.
Apparently the offence was back in 2007 during the last Postal strike and he has taking it to the High Court and won. He should receive a medal.
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Whatever people think of speeding, I don't think that it is great for people to get off on technicalities. Fine, if somebody made a mistake in the process (because it makes sure that people adhere to the right process), but not because of external factors (such as a postal strike).
On the subject of speeding, I also need to raise a slight objection to something that Jeremy Clarkson said on an old episode of Top Gear (shown on Dave yesterday). He said that only 4% of accidents on country roads involved excessive speeds. Now, I am not sure if that is true because I have heard much higher figures but, for the sake of argument, let's say that it is. There is a significant flaw in the argument, specifically that speed limits (and speed limit enforcement) likley reduce the number of people who speed.
The number of murders involving a gun is probably quite low in the UK but probably much higher in the US. The possible reason? That it is a lot easily to get hold of guns in the US.
So, if people were allowed to speed (or have guns), the number of speeding related deaths (or gun related murders) could well be a lot higher.
Now, I put a lot of probablies, and maybes in their, because I don't have figures to back this up, but to say that speed is an infrequent cause of accidents in a country where speed enforcement is fairly strict, doesn't seem to be evidence that speeding isn't a significant risk factor when it occurs.
What we really need is figures from a country with standards for roads, vehicles and driver training like the UK, but where speed limits are not enforced. Is there such a country?
Just my two cents.
Edited by SteelSpark on 01/11/2009 at 13:19
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SS,
Speed on its' own or as the Primary factor is a smallish percentage of all the causes of accidents, trouble is the other factors are often ignored or have less resources put towards them, than speeding does.... and don't seem to have the same outcome at court after a prosecution.
By concentrating laws, sometimes unnecessarily, on speed, you inconvenience the law abiding who would like to travel faster, but will not, because they're law abiding...or.. you have people who are generally law abiding, but will choose to ignore some elements if they feel they're excessive...so you have people who'd otherwise be completely law abiding becoming habitual law breakers...albeit at the lower end of the spectrum.
The constant law breaker in society, who doesn't really care about any law, let alone speeding, is the one most likely, statistically, to have an accident (with or without speed, although often with)...but will usually have a reason other than simple speed involved e.g. drink/drug driving, dangerous driving, defective vehicle, etc.
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Further to my previous post, I think we should differentiate between the different levels of speeding
e.g. simple speeding, careless speeding, dangerous speeding, drink drive speeding etc
the existing laws within the Road Traffic Act could be used to define it
then the vast numbers of hard done by people in this country, wouldn't be lumped in with the criminal, who truly cause most of the problems
so for example, if you drove at 36mph through a 30 mph limit and there were no other danger factors, you'd fit into the 'simple speeding' category and have a penalty to fit e.g. £60 fine, no points
if you drove through the same limit at the same speed, but when the kids were on the way to school, it was wet, dark and you had a bald tyre...then you'd fit another category...with a penalty to fit inc penalty points
conversely, if you drove through there at 50mph on a bright sunny Sunday morning with no one else about...you'd still fit the 'simple speeding' category, because of the otherwise lack of danger
finally, you drive your stolen car through there at 80mph, weaving in and out of all the late night inebriated revellers, being chased by police...you hit the highest category and go to prison, for quite some time....which doesn't seem to happen at the moment.
Edited by Westpig on 01/11/2009 at 17:50
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I don't get it at all, have 2" inches of wheel in a box junction misjudging the clearence gap get 3 points. Speed 3mph over the limit get 3 points. Drive a stolen car yet another pointless ban and another pointless supervision order which they won't stick to. A day later banned drive in their next stolen car.
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e.g. simple speeding careless speeding dangerous speeding drink drive speeding etc
Arn't there only two categories . .
Deliberate and accidental.
Now ALL deliberate should be treated harshly.
Accidental where you are just over is the one which should be treated more lightly.
Now the 6 million $ question . .
How do you define and enforce it - impossible so we stick with what we have. It could be much worse.
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Steel Spark a very interesting and thought provoking post! Do we have the time and money to conduct a study to investigate your ideas? And yours Rattle!
Westpig, I think you deal with the law in your daily life? Don't you think it is complicated enough without introducing sub-categories or grades of speeding? The cameras can't give an opinion and surely many cases would have to go to court, evidence would have to be produced as to traffic volumes at the time and the road conditions and weather. I think it would get really complicated and expensive and now that motorists who win their cases may have to pay costs there is little incentive to make a fight of it, IMO!
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 02/11/2009 at 09:50
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Don't you think it is complicated enough without introducing sub-categories or >>grades of speeding?
Yes, true...but the Police are public servants, therefore there to do as directed by laws made by Govt. There are plenty of sub categories for most other laws, so why not this one?
The cameras can't give an opinion
....and therein lies the problem
>>and surely many cases would have to go to court evidence would have to be >>produced as to traffic volumes at the time and the road conditions and weather.
what, as in proper justice
>>I think it would get really complicated and expensive
It doesn't have to be complicated, i'd concede it might cost more, certainly there'd be less revenue from speed cameras. It would depend on whether we want a fair and proper justice system or a one make fits all job....the current system doesn't differentiate and doesn't address the worst end of the market, because they're not traceable by camera
>>and now that motorists who win their cases may have to pay costs there is little >>incentive to make a fight of it IMO!
That recent 'innovation' is truly dreadful. I cannot imagine that will stay.
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Now ALL deliberate should be treated harshly.
Why? That goes against common sense and natural justice. Plus it is not what happens with other laws e.g. common assault is dealt with more lightly than ABH, etc.
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Any deliberate law braking should be treated harshly.
Unfortunately it isnt!
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You can't explain some things to some people Westpig. Their wiring just can't take it.
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You can't explain some things to some people Westpig. Their wiring just can't take it.
I know Lud, but i'm a patient man.
There's some good come out of it though, I now know what my Physics teacher was going through, circa 1976....;-)
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I do agree with Westpig regarding the point system which i feel is unfair.In the Netherlands you be find for speeding but they do not have a point system.The driver can lose his or hers driving licence depending of the severity of the speeding offence.
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I have commited a few minor offences when driivng because I am a human being. Done an indicated 25 in a few 20's on some of the more dubious roads if I forget for a second its a 20 limit.
Last week my rear part of the car (about 4 inches) was still on the box junction as I misjudged how quickly the traffic was moving (or rather wasn't) and also thought I had space.
This is things that stick out with me and I slap myself for doing, yet the majority of drivers do far worse as a matter of routine.
What is unfair about the points system is a little mistake which harms nobody can lead to 3 points (for new drivers 6 points and its a retest) yet people can drive dangeriously and get away with it.
Cops are far better than cameras as they can use judgement and will probably conclude that doing 21mph in a 20 zone at 8:30 in the evening is not dangerious driving.
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I am a human being. Done an indicated 25 in a few 20's on some of the more dubious roads if I forget for a second its a 20 limit.
No doubt you got away with it too, you evil little carphound. It's because of people like you that I hardly dare go out of doors these days. High time the authorities did something drastic about it. I suggest fixed cameras that estimate the speed of a vehicle, photograph its number plate and flash a red light in MI5 and SAS HQs. The law could then take its course, lethal for preference.
21mph in a 20 zone at 8:30 in the evening is not dangerious driving.
This is the kind of thinking that has to be suppressed straight away. You are as bad as that subversive El Qaeda spokesman Professor Nutt.
Mods: can't this Rattle fellow be banned? He is turning this website into an absolute sink of iniquity with his so-called 'liberal' views.
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