Oh and forgot to mention, I did have the idea in my head (thinking it might be me in the wrong) that maybe my speedo is way out, but then I thought, if it's a 50mph AVERAGE then 50 is effectively the maximum speed, not the minimum, so why should I and indeed everyone else I have seen being bullied by these imbeciles, have to go at the upper limit? I appreciate there is such a thing as too slow, but this doesn't apply in my example.
Just a thought.
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I suspect that it is to do with the driver going at an "indicated" 50, which is more likely to be 45... Yes it is an average, but if you drive at 50 (true 50) the whole time then you're ok... why would you want to keep speeding up and slowing down?!
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QED. If I am going at 45, then what is wrong with that? If they want to overtake, then overtake! I am not going to risk my licence because they're in a hurry to get their consignment of whatever to wherever. And what makes lorry drivers such an expert on accurate speedos?!! Are lorry speedos definitely accurate all the time? I think not.
And I never said I was speeding up and slowing down. When I was harrassed by the idiot, I was going at an indicated 53 mph, my thinking being this was probably between 45 and 50 and therefore I was at no risk from the cameras.
My view on the average speed camera is that I don't like them, but I need my licence, therefore, I keep to these limits. I would, however, also like to be in one piece!!! : )
My question, now I realise I am sorely in the wrong, is how do I, as a mere mortal, get a speedo that is 100% accurate? I would hate to hold up these pillars of society, and if there's a way of avoiding it I will. TFIC.
I can't help thinking we live in a ludicrous society if it's OK to behave like a sociopath if someone is going a whole 5mph slower than they think they are. Would it stand up in court? "Your honour, these apples NEEDED to be delivered to Tesco. It was my duty to plough that slowcoach out of the way... society needs apples."
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>>Are lorry speedos definitely accurate all the time? I think not.
Erm, yes, they are!
They are subject to regular checks and calibration where the truck is run up to speed on rollers, and, unlike car speedos are set to read speed quite accurately. Your car speedo can be up to 10% wrong, and is subject to no check for its entire life.
I think you may also need to review the mathematical definition of average.
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OK point taken on that. I am not a lorry driver or anything remotely connected. I concede that point.
2 things: 1) Is ANYONE going to concede that it is unacceptable to harass other road users, EVEN IF they have the audacity to be going, as defined by someone who drives a lorry, too slowly? Or are you just, for whatever reasons I can't fathom, going to defend these dangerous fools because their speedo is accurate and mine may be up to 10% wrong?!
2) What makes you think I don't understand the mathematical definition of average?
I think I may have remembered why I don't come on here any more. I came on here because people like Cliff Pope and Lud amused me, and shared my sense of humour (sometimes!). Now I am being told that maths (which I DO understand) is more important than safety and tolerance and manners... mmm.
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2) What makes you think I don't understand the mathematical definition of average? >>
Can you explain what you mean by : " ... if it's a 50mph AVERAGE then 50 is effectively the maximum speed, .... "
p.s. I have never had any problem with truckers in the avearge speed camera sections of M-ways.
Edited by jbif on 19/10/2009 at 12:28
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: ) Badly put, maybe, OK badly put definitely by me. It is a 50mph MAXIMUM SPEED LIMIT with an average speed camera. So yes, you could do 80 for a bit, then go along at a crawl (and I sure Carol Vorderman's siblings will be along to tell me for exactly how long!!!) but I am pretty sure that would annoy the truckers (no pun intended) even more eh?!
PS I am glad... honestly, not being sarcastic or anything, it's very scary and I wouldn't want it to happen to anyone.
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2 things: 1) Is ANYONE going to concede that it is unacceptable to harass other road users EVEN IF they have the audacity to be going as defined by someone who drives a lorry too slowly?
No need to concede it, it's obvious.
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Unless you have a good sat nav, its hard to discover how 'out' your speedo is. At an indicated 50 my car is doing just 45, but in the misses car, 50 dead on.
Do you know the nationality of the drivers?
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I've been in a similar situation - GPS showing dead on 50mph in a lane with cones either side and an arctic about six inches behind flashing his lights for me to go faster. Moment we got out of the roadworks he swung out to overtake. Tempted to slow down to annoy him but thought he might try and nudge me as a motivation. :-)
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When you get to the end of the roadworks, you should go slowly and politely up to 70: if his restrictor is on (as it should be) he can get as annoyed as he likes, but you were in the right in the roadworks and now you still are. Except he isn't behind you any more is he? So how much point was there to what he did, and how much quicker will he get to his Travelodge/caff/layby/tattoo parlour*?
* Joke.
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stevied,
A lot of people seem to think the normal rules of the road go out of the window when they reach a 50mph stretch covered by average cameras, because they'll slow down in the lane they're in, rather than pull left when there's a gap.......then combined with what's stated above that the vast majority of cars have speedos that under read...then the thought that no one is going to be prosecuted doing 52mph in a 50mph limit... then the other road users with satnav or a lorry's more accurate speedo might wish to drive 7mph or so faster than you.
if you're in lane 1, then that's their problem...if you're in lane 2, then maybe you should be in lane 1.
tenner says even if you are in lane 1, some clown is doing the same speed as you in lane 2 and blocking that....hence where the frustration comes from....although using a large vehicle to intimidate others is never going to be right, is it
how many times have you seen all 3 lanes doing the same speed and if they're people doing 49 mph on their speedos, they'll be far less than what you could drive at if they were willing to do what they should do and pull left when there's a gap....(different when it's well busy)
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Yep, Stu, good point... and I appreciate that it may well be a fair way out. What I am finding staggering is that my inaccurate speedo (if indeed it is) is considered to make me fair game to be knocked off the road! OK, next time I am on the motorway (no roadworks, 70 limit) and I come up behind someone doing 65, I will, instead of going into the next lane to my right and overtaking them, go right up behind them, flash my lights, mouth obscenities and if I can, make my car make that stupid airbrake noise that lorries do when they're pretending it's more than their life's work to slow down by 3mph. I take it that will be OK then yes? Or do I have to go to lorry driver school and become a knight of the road to be so breathtakingly arrogant and foolhardy? Yep... I thought so, I would be done for dangerous driving.
I am getting quite angry now. : )
Why can't they just overtake? It's a simple question. In my example above, 70 is the MAXIMUM speed. In a 50 limit, whether it's an average speed area or not, and I can prove I DO know what that means, the same applies. So, Ginster munchers, do NOT harass me, or else I will take you and the company that employs you to court.
Deep breath.
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"if you're in lane 1, then that's their problem...if you're in lane 2, then maybe you should be in lane 1."
Spot on Westpig. I was, needless to say, in Lane 1. I very quickly moved into Lane 2 though. : ) The word "frustration" really sums it up, I hate to sound like an old biddy, but how much ground are they going to gain at their huge 7mph more eh? I can't equate their level of anger and frustration with the utterly dangerous actions that they employ. Hence me being a pompous miserable sanctimonious so and so and pulling the "taking you to court" on them. Has to be done sometimes, unfortunately.
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It boils down to this: a lot of drivers are impatient, selfish and plain thick.
A 10 mile stretch of road at 56 mph (lorry's legal maximum speed) takes 10 minutes, 42 seconds. A 10 mile stretch at 50 mph (temporary maximum speed limit for all drivers) takes 12 minutes. At 45 mph (real speed of cars at indicated 50 mph) we're talking 13 minutes, 20 seconds.
Thus, over a flat ten mile stretch of roadworks (let's be optimistic here, eh?) a lorry driver will lose an "irreplaceable" two minutes, thirty-eight seconds if he has to sit at 45 instead of his usual 56.
Two and a half minutes is not enough to turn most people into raging psycopaths - so what's their problem??
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Spot on Bilboman. I wonder where all the apologists have gone?
I do realise I may sound snobby, but I am a LITTLE tired of this "knights of the road" nonsense. I do, tongue in cheek comments aside, appreciate the annoyances of tachos and the pressures of delivery schedules... but, but, but.... is that worth frightening people for? No it isn't. I know they all sit in their cafes bemoaning "flamin' car drivers not understanding our problems" well, no maybe we don't. Maybe you need a good PR person eh? Because I am sorry, but mouthing obscenities at me whilst waving your tattooed arms at me and driving 2 inches from my bumper is NOT going to endear me to you. I will just assume, rightly or wrongly, that I am glad I listened at school and don't have to (other than when I am being bullied by you on the M6) associate with "your sort". Which is a shame, because I hate thinking like that. But I do, because of what happens all the time.
"An irreplaceable two minutes 38 seconds". Priceless... that about sums it up.
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>>Two and a half minutes is not enough to turn most people into raging psycopaths - so what's their problem??<<
'My truck is bigger than your puny car and so you will part like the red sea or be driven off the road'. Its not actually a truck only phenomenon though, its just certain types of drivers who in this case, alarmingly, are in charge of a very dangerous vehicle.
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Stevie. I've had exactly the same thing happen to me, and I happen to agree with you. There is absolutely no excuse for it, any more than there is any excuse for the 10 mile overtaking manoeuvres that mar roads like the A14.
It is quite simply behaviour that is boorish, selfish and in some cases reckless. I've called the companies several times, and to be honest if anyone does it to me as badly again (at 53 on sat nav in lane 1 - flashing lights and a tiny gap) I will just call 999.
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Cheers Gordon. Thank heavens.. I thought I had gone insane. : )
I will call 999 next time myself, I am sick of it.
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I will call 999 next time myself I am sick of it.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!
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I have never, ever, driven up the back of someone to within 1-2 feet, flashing my lights and generally trying to intimidate them. Never. So get off your high horse and recognise dangerous and antisocial behaviour when you see it.
The truckers do this because they don't give much of a stuff about anything except keeping going as quick as possible, and they get that close because they know most people won't actually let them hit them, and that if they stay close enough the camera's can't see their plates. They deserve to have the cops talk to them.
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What I will admit to is brake testing a coach that actually tapped me going through a 50 limit.
I'm not proud of that, it was a spur of the moment thing stemming from fear and fury, and while it worked and he backed right off, I probably needed arresting.
That's a very different thing to calculatingly intimidating drivers of much smaller vehicles though.
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They deserve to have the cops talk to them.
If you have a passenger, they could of course take a little video clip of the event, for future reference. Most digital cameras, and many mobile 'phones can take these.
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As usual L'escargot's got his 'holier than thou' hat on again.
I too agree with you stevied over this issue.
I recall once overtaking a line of trucks on the M11 northbound in the two lane stretch. There were cars in front of me in lane 2 and I was trying to leave a safe gap driving at an indicated 70mph so couldn't go any faster. The road was busy so no-one was going to zip along.
As I passed a truck he started indicating right. I had my hand hovering over the horn and covered the brake pedal too just in case he decided he was going to pull out. I passed him and he immediately pulled out behind me honking and flashing.
I had absolutely no idea what I could have done to upset this particular grunt other than I hadn't sped past him as quickly as he'd wanted. Had I done so I would have jeapordised my safety and that of the car I was following.
Regarding road works, I am aware a trucks speedo is more accurate than mine so am happy to let the speedo to creep over 50 -53ish but I never go any faster because by then I'm finding I am concentrating too much on my speedo rather than anything else. The more I creep up to 55 and beyond I presumably increase my risk of going above average speed and its just not worth the risk. I don't care if someone's leather sofa is gonna be 2 minutes late getting to the warehouse. I'm rather attached to my licence!
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If I am ever stupid enough to do something that merits it, then I will take the consequences. I have never bullied anyone by driving a large object such as a truck too closely behind them, whilst gesticulating like a gibbon and flashing my lights, I can say that with some conviction!
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>> I thought if it's a 50mph AVERAGE then 50 is effectively the maximum speed not the minimum
Quite. It's a 50MPH limit "enforced" by average-speed cameras. It's not OK to do 150MPH for most of the course and then stop and have a sandwich before passing the next camera.
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Bet someone's done that though! : )
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EDIT this should have gone under the speed cameras and lorries title sorry chaps. {it is now}
Calm down a bit chaps (victims).
I don't intimidate anyone at least not intentionally, not because i'm afraid of the consequences but because it's stupid and bullying and dangerous and most unprofessional and whilst doing that you fail to see the lovely jewel cruising by in her best frock and tucker...maybe these twerps are on the other team..;)
Please believe me when i tell you that proper old school truck drivers (age bears no meaning here) are incensed by this sort of behaviour as it reflects badly on all of us, the trouble is that a truck is highly visible and extremely frightening if driven in such a manner, whereas an idiot in a similarly sized car is just an idiot.
Many of us have exemplary (and a lot of luck is involved here and lots of wood touching) records of accidents etc and we really want to keep it that way.
Unfortunately there is much in the peanuts and monkeys solution here, pay one you often get the other.
As an aside, something's that always bemused me, a truck driver's accident/damage record doesn't follow him round, that is something i've always thought odd as idiots can wander willy nilly from one peanut job to another leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/10/2009 at 01:43
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Gordon, I am sure you are a good driver: I wouldn't wish to taint all truck drivers. This is what I have sent to the company who employ the truck driver who harrassed me, and thank you to the chap who supplied me with the fantastic maths which I have quoted at the end of the letter, I owe you a beer!:
"To whom it may concern,
I am following up on a complaint I made to your company to which I
have not as yet received a definitive response. I complained on the
8.10.09 about a lorry driver on the M6 with a YOUR COMPANY trailer. I got
through to the Transport Manager at your TOWN office on PHONE NUMBER who took my details and the details of the incident and promised
to get back to me. I rang him up two weeks or so later, and he
apologised and said that he had received no response as yet but would
get back to me. I have still not heard anything from him.
Even if he has not heard anything back, which is possible I suppose,
then I still think that out of courtesy I should have been contacted.
Let me tell you what happened: I was driving on the (old) M6
northbound at an indicated 50mph through a section of roadworks near to
Birmingham town centre at circa 20:00. This stretch has an average
speed camera. I was in the inside lane (so I cannot be accused of
middle-lane hogging) when a lorry came up behind me very close, which I
ignored for a while, then terrifyingly close, flashing his lights at
me. Now I am no soft lad, and am not easily intimidated, but I drive a
Toyota MR2 and this coward was in a huge truck. Not a collision I wish
to be involved in, I am sure you will agree. So, eventually, I moved
into the middle lane. He overtook me on the inside (which is illegal,
and it was not heavy traffic moving at the same speed, so that excuse
cannot be used) flashing his lights, waving his arms out of the window,
shouting and generally betraying his loutishness and uncouthness. I
just took the name off the side, ?YOUR COMPANY? as I recall and
carried on, a little shaken. He continued driving marginally faster
than me until he went off at the next junction where I gave him a blast
of the horn to which I received more charming hand gestures from him
(which incidentally showed off his tattoos beautifully, a true work of
art of a fellow... ).
I then called several numbers from 118 118 (as there was no number on
the truck) and eventually left a message with a very nice man in the
TOWN office who promised the Transport Manager would call back
the next day. He didn?t, I called up and got a dismissive woman who I
did, I admit, somewhat lose my rag with and was then put through to the
Transport Manager who was helpful and promised he?d look into it. He
told me that you take such complaints very seriously, which is
laudable, and that he would be back in touch. Which takes us back to
the top of my e-mail and where I am today.
If you are hoping I will go away, I won?t. I was so disgusted by this
thug that if I do not receive a satisfactory outcome I will go to the
police. Here are some salient points for you: I am WELL aware (I worked
for a long while as a Transport Manager) that lorry speedometers are
more accurate than car ones. I may well, shock horror, have been
travelling slower than 50mph. I appreciate this is irritating, and in
heavy traffic, drivers may feel they are being needlessly held up.
However, traffic was light and there was no reason why he could not
have overtaken me in the middle lane. Moreover, the 50mph limit is a
limit, NOT A TARGET SPEED. Let me share this: I care less than nothing
how quickly Mr Thug gets his COMPANY bits from A to Z. My life is more
important than his lorry load. I am not risking my licence or my life
in an average speed check area for him. Secondly, I do not want him
doing this to somebody more frail and vulnerable than me. If someone
did that to my mum or dad, I would find it very hard to be as objective
as when it happened to me. If he is getting grief from management about
targets, driving hours, rest periods and other such navel fluff, then I
hope it doesn?t take a meaningless death for your company to realise
how trivial such things are in the great scheme of things. We all have
jobs, we all have moments of grandiose self-importance, but the bottom
line isn?t always a corporate bottom line. In fact, it hardly ever is.
I presume this creature has a family? I hope he shows them more love
and respect than he shows to anybody else. Now, after this period of
time, I am firmly convinced that you will have been able to work out
who the driver was. Inspector Clouseau could have worked it out by now.
So, could I please have an explanation as to his actions; why his
mindset was so disturbed, and; necessarily I think after waiting so
long, a good reason as to why I should not report him and by proxy you
to the authorities?
Lastly, here is a statistic for you: over a flat ten mile stretch of
roadworks a lorry driver will lose an "irreplaceable" two minutes,
thirty-eight seconds if he has to sit at 45 instead of his usual 56.
Maybe you want to pass that on to your drivers? I am sure, as an
optimist by nature, most of them are fine examples of their craft, but
it is a point worth thinking about.
I look forward to a reply at your earliest convenience, and can be
reached at this e-mail or on my mobile telephone MY NUMBER.
Kind regards"
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Iam with stevied on this one it is dangerous and irresponsible intimidating someone in front of you in a car driving a truck .For the sake of a few miles there again i can understand the frustration of truck drivers on these 50 mph roadworks.I know its money but why not do the work what needs doing 24/7 ?
{moves from the "New speed cameras on trial" discussion to the "Average speed cameras and lorries" discussion, seeing as this is in reply to that discussion and not the other one. DD}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 31/10/2009 at 17:14
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