You are distorting your speakers. You are playing music too loud so your amplifer is clipping. When the amplifer reaches its peaks power it starts to clip the music because there is simply no more power reserve for the peaks of the music wave form.
In short you need to invest in a more power amplifier. You will probably need to spend around £250 on amp which can handle loud music well. I have a Cambridge Audio Azure 640a and Warfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers with that combination I can play music so loud without any loss of tonal quality.
Also if clipping occures the coils on the loudspeakers are probably over heating, this can damage the speakers.
Most the time when you get this clipping it is the amplifer at fault. The biggest difference between a cheap amplifier and a good one is the power supply. On an all one system the power supply has to share the power for everything, on seperates you have a power supply for each part of the HIFI system. On more expensive seperates there is huge amount of money spent on the power supply part of the amp.
Generaly speaking 60w per channel into an 8 ohm load should be able to cope with as much loudness as you could cope with but it depends on the room size, physics comes to play here too.
Edited by Rattle on 25/10/2009 at 17:41
|
|
|
Hello Pat, hope the career shift goes well.
I have similar tastes in music, but my weakness is Alice Cooper since i was 17.
You need very high quality amps and speakers to take the pounding such full music has, you'll be very lucky to find something like a DAB radio with inbuilt speaker capable.
Your system at home, do you run separates or an all in one?
I'm assuming that you have an all in one, it might be that you need to upgrade to separates to get the quality needed, plus with separates if one thing breaks you just replace/upgrade that component.
It's not cheap mind, a good complete system capable of running our kind of music will cost from £1K to £severalK, but you can buy good used speakers etc especially if you have room to accomodate larger stuff...which IMO is usually better despite some of the mini and micro components being very good.
I'm no expert but i've upgraded over the years...it's a good opportunity to get a 'receiver' amplifier as a basic first step so you can then run high quality surround sound from your TV too.....
...seeing as you have so much time on your hands now to enjoy it...he said through gritted teeth..;)
|
I would avoid a reciever because the power supply in them tends to be poor. On a dedicated 2 channel stereo amp most the money is in the power supply. For this sort of music the power supply is massively important as that is providing all the energy.
My Cambridge 640a (the new versions retail for around £250-£300) always impresses me just how well it handles the peaks. Anything from Alice Cooper to The Smiths it just handles it effortlessy.
Speaker positioning is vital too :).
This is my system and has cost me well over £1500 over the years but its been worth every penny. Started in 1999 and now have this. I built all the furniture myself as its far cheaper.
i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/hifi...g
Edit my room is a complete tip but that is the problem when your bedroom because your lounge and office. No space for anything :(.
Edited by Rattle on 25/10/2009 at 18:00
|
Have a look at the £500-£600 systems here
www.richersounds.com/information/hifisystems
They will get your started.
If you currently have a cheap all in one then even the £200 systems will be a massive improvement on what you have but they won't be able to play music at above night club levels and still remain in control.
I should also point out that the only time I tend to play loud music is early on on a saturday night when I know next door are away the rest of the time I use my Grados (the headphones on top of my tunrtable) and for TV I use the Goldrings to the right.
I like being eccentric :).
Edited by Rattle on 25/10/2009 at 18:05
|
>>Have a look at the £500-£600 systems here
Agree with everything Rattle says, but...lots of people are still chucking out old 80s hifi to replace it with micro systems or streaming music from a PC. I was given a Technics SU-Z400 amp a couple of months ago, probably 55-60 proper watts per channel. You will buy something like this for buttons on the big auction. There was an FM tuner of the same vintage with it as well.
Look at item 170398212793 - 4 days to go, another Technics, an A900, 100W per channel, just like the one I'm using now - not high end but very decent and cost near £500 new and has a giant 'virtual battery' power supply. Still at £1.00.
As I type this I have just watched a complete 1990s Technics separates system go on ebay for £18.80, including another decent SU610 amp plus Technics CD, cassette deck, speakers and turntable. The speakers might not be up to much but the rest of it is probably fine.
Difficult to say how much power you need - a 'quality' 20W per channel can be enough with sensitive speakers. I'm using some 20 year old B&W DM500s which are ported and make plenty of noise with 20W. Speakers seem to go for a bit more, and it's likely that some will have blown tweeters so caveat emptor but there are still bargains to be had.
Suggest you ask around your friends and acquaintances first - surprising how much treasure people have in their lofts.
|
|
My sister has a fine late 70's Pioneer amp which was given to me. It the sort of power sound the OP is looking for but for me the sound is a bit forcefull almost like it is trying too hard to sound good. That said on the used market you can big up some great bargains especialy the older stuff although they could probably all with being recaped.
|
|
|
|
Couldn't resist a peep Rattle. I deduce that you:
- don't play vinyl every day
- wouldn't mind a MINI
- don't spend a lot of time on literature but devour technical tracts and throw them on the pile
- don't always drink beer or expect your guests to drink beer
- are handy but uninterested in elaborate decor
Fascinated by the photo on the wall, being myself a wimpish sufferer from vertigo. Any of your relations worked in construction?
I'm sure the Hi-Fi setup is magnificent (so it ought to be) but those things are all just boxes to me.
|
The funny thing is I got into it all by accident. I had a cheap £100 mini system from Comet in 1998 and found it sounded awful. I then happen to walk passed a shop called richersounds and bought a cheap CD player and was amazed of the detail (hadn't discovered soundstage or tonal qualities yet) and it all went from there. My parents end up with my casts off.My system actually sounds better than some more expensive setups because I have taken great care to set it up properly.
I only drink beer at the weekend :). I should play vinyl more but I just get lazy and play a lot through (legal) MP3 now (high bit rate) or CD. My room needs decorating badly but my sister is moving out soon so I will convert my room to a workshop and then have my sisters bigger room which will also be much better for my HIFI system.
I suffer from virigo too I will do any DIY as longs as it dosn't involve any heights. When our water tank was overflowing I could not even use the ladders to get into the loft so I had get my dad to take loads of pictures so I could guide him through changing the valve it worked though :). My family used to run a builders on Royal Hospital Road but that is going back years ago it was still there in the 80's but they were very distant relatives by then.
All my books are on cars, railways, local history and programming :). You might call it geeky.
If I am ever rich enough I will have a room which is just a listening room complete with all the sound proofing. The major downside to being an audiophile is I find a lot of sound to be very very offensive. I suppose it is like being used to a 5.0 litre Jag and then having to go down to an 8v Fiesta it will be a shock.
The mini was a present of my Grandma many years ago the detail is just very good so have it on display although Minis are not my ideal car they are good looking.
|
|
|
those things are all just boxes to me.
I should have added: got a couple of friends who are Hi Fi freaks. They have all sorts of devices that cost proper money, like yours, but one of them in particular is very keen on old vacuum-tube amps and mono rather than stereo. My Bentley had a valve radio that took a couple of minutes to warm up but had the best sound of any car radio I can remember. However I don't regard myself as having a proper ear. Just know what I like as it were.
|
|
|
Pat,
As Rattle says, Richer Sounds is a good place to go.
Some of the staff are genuine enthusiasts, so you might get genuine advice in choosing the correct equipment.
Cambridge Audio is effectively Richer Sounds' own brand, but don't worry about that, it's good quality.
Sounds like you're after grunt, so you want full-size units - power supply/cooling as Rattle says.
Floorstanding speakers might seem obvious, but you'll be amazed at the sound from good quality bookshelfs/compacts.
If using smaller speakers, a decent pair of speaker stands is an absolute must-have.
Worth spending a few quid on cables, too. Not fortunes, but a £20 pair of phono leads will slaughter a pair costing £1.99.
Same with speaker cable, worth paying a pound or two a metre - it's peanuts because you should aim to site the speakers so you only need a metre or two each side.
I know there are a lot of rock stations on DAB, but bear in mind its sound quality is rubbish compared to CD or a proper FM set-up.
|
Indeed as you can see I do have a DAB but I rarely use it because even the best stations are 160kbps MP2 so its woeful, FM is far better. I have a rather nice FM Sony tuner but its downstairs atm as I have no space on my shelf for it.
I find £20 for interconnects is about right, anything more it will be impossible to tell the difference. It is all about getting that right balance. Speaker positioning is very important too, if its book shelfs they need to be on stands, placing them on a shelf can cause boom and slow the bass down.
I find with amps at the budget end NAD, Marantz and Cambridge Audio seem the best, Denons to me have a very powerful sound but also sound a bit too thin. Marantz may be a bit warm for rock music but it depends on the model. I personaly love my Marantz CD player (modern version costs around £330).
Another tip is to go for run out models, you can get yesteryears amp for a fraction of the RRP price when it came out and unlike computers HIFI only slightly improves over the years.
If you're on a budget you can get a decent second hand setup for less than £200. My sisters setup cost around £80 and is made up of car boot sale stuff.
If you're not an audiophile you may not actually appcreciate HIFI as it can be very very subtle it can take several hours to tune your ears but once you get it you will never ever go back. On my system you can hear the space between the instrunments and even now it is still raises my hair. My system is actually budget too, there are far cheaper stuff but also far more expensive stuff out there.
The fact is that the sort of music you like simply requires expensive equipment if you want to listen to it loud.
Edited by Rattle on 25/10/2009 at 18:52
|
|
|
Remember lads, Pat is not playing her stuff at girly volumes here, she needs full size floor standing speakers to be able to take the power long term...a speaker shifts air, the more the better.
Rattle a good enough quality receiver will be more than enough to do what Pat wants, we have enough power here to do everything she needs.
Going the home cinema route does have a distinct advantage too, you can enjoy films without the unpleasant aspects of the modern cinema...certain other people.
Richer Sounds is as said very good, but they don't sell high powered subs, and they have limited high power speakers range too, they do have a certain target market who are usually short of space....in other owrds i'm about the oldest fellow i've seen in a RS shop.
|
Speaker size really depends on the room size. For my room my stand mounts are more powerful than you can ever need and I don't need a sub the bass gets down really deep without a sub to slow the bass down. I found all subs that cost less than £500 sound awful with music because they are just too slow and sound boomy to me. From my experience movies and music are best kept seperate.
In my room I can easily get music way above 120db its so loud my ears start to pop without any obvious amp over heating and with no clipping, I rarely do it but with something like Blue Monday it sounds like you're in a New York night club with a sound system that costs millions. The wonderful thing about having a small room is you can get away with less power. I think mine produces around 75wpc. More powerful amps are more about control of the music especialy the bass than out and out loudness though.
There are some very good home cinema amps out there but they are very expensive.
A £300 mutlichannel amp will also be worse than a 2 channel stereo one at the same price for obvious reasons. With movies you do not simply require the same sudden power bursts as you do with music exact timing with sound effects on a movie is not that important. On music is vital.
One of my favourite sayings with HIFI is less is more. A lot of what you hear on cheaper systems is actually distortion either in the DAC, amp or speakers.
Edited by Rattle on 25/10/2009 at 19:01
|
Rattle.
Interesting you prefer VHF to DAB. I've never gone down the DAB path. I used to use a Nicam VCR to feed audio into my amp for the telly, but I've now ditched the VHF tuner for a freeview digibox which provides all my audio for telly and radio.
|
I did exactly the same thing, I bought a second hand Toshiba VCR very cheaply which had a record fault but it did have a perfectly working NICAM tuner so connected it to the amp or rather my Rotel preamp.
I now I use a semi home built PVR, I bought one for £30 as it was faulty replaced the hard drive, put in a bigger fan and upgraded the transformer and it works perfectly. I find freeview sounds better than DAB but not as good as a good FM source.
I use my rotel preamp as my Cambridge dosn't have quite enough inputs (6) and it has no phono stage, the Rotel has a very good one. So my TV and turntable connect to my preamp which then connects to my Cambridge. I also have an audiophile sound card so my entire system is very complicated.
|
|
|
|
I've had some juddery CD's over the years, I give em a wash under the tap using soap and they've been fine afterwards.
Re: DAB radio, if I'm in the kitchen (every night!) cooking dinner and Sultans of swing or the like comes on Planet Rock, I'll wind the critter up till its dancing along the window ledge but the Pure Evoke can take it (and some!!)
|
its easy to make your own sub for your living room, i use a 12 inch disco bass speaker (paper surround mind not rubber) in a homemade mdf case with loads of wadding in to cut down resonance connected to an akai am-m570 with remote (its a waste of this good amp but i have lots of other ones too) anyway place this speaker behind your armchair on a sunday afternoon and with the dolby prologic turned on to warp factor 4 and the marantz main amp glowing in the darkened room put on star wars 1 the phantom menace (no HD required) get to the point where they are chasing round the mountains and feel like you are driving the car,its brilliant........
music is the same if you like rock ,you really need a subwoofer so your main speakers can concentrate on everything else
i miss my t27"s by the way,i blew them in 1976
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
